How can you not be christian?

[The PeoplesFreedom]

Swedish babes.

[Treznor]

Here's a crazy thought: Christians don't care if the world suffers and dies because they're looking to the next life. Atheists care about making the world better, because it's the only one we've got. Which is the more moral position?

I'm a Christian who cares about making the world better because I have a responsibility to creation and to my fellow man. So.. where the hell does that put me?

You see, those kind of Christians don't exist. We only want to hate gays and force our views on other people!

Those are the ones who speak loudest to the press and vote for politicians to do precisely that. Seems to me you've got a bit of housecleaning to do.

So do the militant atheists.

Like Dawkins? Fuck that. They're right on the money.

[New Caldaris]

Also i thought i'd post my favorite quote on god/religion in this thread. I'm sure people here have seen it and know it but i figure it'll add to the conversation

Is god willing to prevent evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent
Is god able to prevent evil but not willing?
Then he is malevolent
Is god both able and willing to prevent evil?
Then when will it end?
Is god neither able nor willing to prevent evil?
Why call him god?

[Omono]

Also i thought i'd post my favorite quote on god/religion in this thread. I'm sure people here have seen it and know it but i figure it'll add to the conversation

Is god willing to prevent evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent
Is god able to prevent evil but not willing?
Then he is malevolent
Is god both able and willing to prevent evil?
Then when will it end?
Is god neither able nor willing to prevent evil?
Why call him god?

I was watch an AmazingAtheist video yesterday dealing with that quote......kinda makes you think religion is a bunch of shit doesn't it.....or its just a cult with their controlling beliefs.

[New Caldaris]

Also i thought i'd post my favorite quote on god/religion in this thread. I'm sure people here have seen it and know it but i figure it'll add to the conversation

Is god willing to prevent evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent
Is god able to prevent evil but not willing?
Then he is malevolent
Is god both able and willing to prevent evil?
Then when will it end?
Is god neither able nor willing to prevent evil?
Why call him god?

I was watch an AmazingAtheist video yesterday dealing with that quote......kinda makes you think religion is a bunch of shit doesn't it.....or its just a cult with their controlling beliefs.

Duh! Lol

[Gesford]

We don't value this world at all. Why would you fear something that you know is going to give you pain. We don't fear this world, we just don't believe in it. We cast our lot on whats afterward.

Nietzsche leveled just such an accusation at Christians, labeling them "world haters" for attempting to block out an unpleasant world with fantasies of an afterlife. Seems a rather harsh assessment to me, but you have to admit this does sound uncannily similar.

[DaWoad]

Here's a crazy thought: Christians don't care if the world suffers and dies because they're looking to the next life. Atheists care about making the world better, because it's the only one we've got. Which is the more moral position?

I'm a Christian who cares about making the world better because I have a responsibility to creation and to my fellow man. So.. where the hell does that put me?

You see, those kind of Christians don't exist. We only want to hate gays and force our views on other people!

Those are the ones who speak loudest to the press and vote for politicians to do precisely that. Seems to me you've got a bit of housecleaning to do.

So do the militant atheists.

Like Dawkins? Fuck that. They're right on the money.

Gotta say I agree and frankly it seems the label "militant atheist" gets tossed at anyone who
a) admits to be atheist
and B) criticize religion in the same way that one would criticize a political statement.
whereas a Religious person can only be labeled extremist after they actually try to kill someone. .. .anyone seeing a disconnect here?

[The Alma Mater]

Because Christianity is bullshit (even more so than some of the other major religions), and I prefer to keep my mind clear and free of the oppressive, hypocritical fog that is religion.

I take you're just reading Marx.

Not really. I just gave up on religion. It does not deliver, so why bother?

Beats me. I respect the beliefs of others.

Could you define respect ?

Because I "get" listening to opinions and claims, no matter how offensive and counter-intuitive they seem. Intuition and gut feelings can after all be wrong.

But I really do not get respecting and listening to claims that have been debunked over and over and over again without anything new being added by the person doing the talking. Take young earth creationists: unless they come up with a NEW reason to dismiss all the evidence that directly contradicts their faith instead of the rehashed tripe we allready know, reviewed and showed to be nonsensical I see no reason to continue respecting them*.

Is that wrong ?

* Edit: not entirely true I realised: if they would say "all the evidence seems to indicate I am wrong, but I will continue believing anyway" they get kudos for being honest with themselves and others.

[Risottia]

My question is how can you not be christian.

Like this.

Theist: "There is a God/more Gods!"

Atheist: "Hello, any god out there?"

...

...

...

...

*tumbleweed rolling through the plains*

...

...

...

Atheist: "Looks like there's not."

People who are athiest, I believe say there is no god as an excuse for them to get away wiht something they know is a sin.

Maybe you should consider that an atheist doesn't subscribe into this "sin" thing, as it is a religious concept (sin = infringing divine law. no deity, no divine law, no sin).

[Bavungria]

i am not trying to troll or anything or flame, but what if i was a Muslim or Jew ? i know for a fact Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, not the son of God and i do not think that Jews believe that Jesus was the son of god either but i am not that sure about the Jews.

The Jews (correctly if one follows Scripture) believe that Jesus did not qualify the requirements to be the Messiah, and therefor deem him a false prophet/messiah.

thank you alma. i did not know but thanks for telling me. are you jewish by any chance ?

[The Twisted Children]

Swedish babes.

I agree.

[Bavungria]

My question is how can you not be christian. People who are athiest, I believe say there is no god as an excuse for them to get away wiht something they know is a sin. Also people say why doesnt god just show himself and my answer to that is Faith. What use what it be if god just showed himself to everyone and then everyone just switched to christian, God wants people who have faith and are loyal not people who see him and then suddenly believe. Also Athiest who dont belive in god explain to me about ghosts then? Dont say thier not real either because my dad and stepmother have both seen demons, and if you want to know about it i would be more than happy to explain.

Also people who belive Obama is the Anti-Christ, I can see this to some point because in the bible it says that the Anti-Christ will try to make peace wiht everyone and be a nice handsome smooth talker whihc obama is so yes i can see obama being the anti-christ. But i wouldnt freak out about it because if your saved then you will go to heaven. just like 2012 why freak out when you will be going to a better place thats why i think the people who freak out about it are the ones who are worried because they no about the sins they have committed.


Also all of these different religons like catholics, prodestants and judism and all the others i think are in my opinion are not needed because all you have to do is belive in god and the virgin marry and that jesus gave his sins for us, also god didnt make religon, humans made religon in thier own way that they seen fit. For example reilgon is formed like a club and then one day a member form that club doesnt like the ideas of it so then they go and make thier own club meaning religon. But really all you have to do is belive in virgin marry, jesus sacrifice and belive in god as your heavenly father and you will go to heaven.

Im not a perfect christian, no one is infact ive had my doubts but after talking wiht my Step Mom and my Dad and thinking about the miracles that have happened to me i do belive there is a god and thats called faith. So please anyone is welcome to comment but do not argue or make stupid comments or make fun of anyones religon. This is meant to be a discussion not a argument about which religon is better or calling someone stupid because of thier beliefs.

i am not trying to troll or anything or flame, but what if i was a Muslim or Jew ? i know for a fact Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, not the son of God and i do not think that Jews believe that Jesus was the son of god either but i am not that sure about the Jews. So if i am Jewish or Muslim would you find that acceptable ?

Well theres a difference because muslims "Allah" rewards its followers wiht virgins if they kill someone and also idk about jews because jesus was a jew so i think yeah jews will go to heaven

man you do not know much about Muslims do you ? First of all have you even read the Qu'ran ? they don't kill advocate killing people. that is just some of them. just like not all Christians advocate killing gays. You are just being stereotypical. But you know Allah is just the Arabic word for God ? o shit omg what the ya they use the word God but in there language. they believe in the bible and the Torah as well just to let you know. BTW i should know because i live in a Muslim country.

[Big Jim P]

How can I not be christian? Easy. Both my brain cell are firing.

[Person012345]

Many Athiests are as such because they fear a divine being. Its not that they are dumb, they just fear it.

Many Christians are as such because they fear a world where there isn't some ever-forgiving daddy to save them from harsh reality. It's not that they are dumb, they just fear it.


Right?

We don't value this world at all. Why would you fear something that you know is going to give you pain. We don't fear this world, we just don't believe in it. We cast our lot on whats afterward.

I believe the main motivators of religion are as follows:
Fear of death.
Fear of uncertainty.
Wanting to believe that everything will be good if you follow a set of rules. That you will magically have great things because you were good.

I do not fear a divine being. If it was proven that god was real I would not worship him. Based on what we read in the bible, god disgusts me. I would prefer to fight him. My lack of belief comes from there not being a reason to believe.

Why do you believe in god?

[Teddymania]

Oh wow this should be interesting...

I am not a christian because I find it hard to believe in a supreme being that could be so cruel, all in the name of free will, I'll skip the middle man and go straight for the free will.

[Behaved]

Wrong forum dude.

where do you think it should be?

[Bavungria]

Guys i know this forum is bound to be heated but we should at least try to be descreet even thought i was a bit of an ass in my post. we should try to understand him from his point of view

[Volnotov]

I am nor religious nor athiest.

I am an agnost, I don't know wheter there is a god or not.

I am not saying there is no god or that there is a god, I simply don't know in what the heck I am supposed to believe.

How can I believe in something, or even try to prove it's existance when I don't know what I am looking for?

What is God? Or, who is God?

Can anybody answer that question, because I don't have the answer.

Some believe it's a life force, some believe there are multiple gods, some believe that it's some insane tyrannical sadistic warlord sitting on a high throne somewhere in the clouds while tormenting us with grief, pain and evil.

But to be honest - I don't what god is, or who is.

It's hard for someone to believe in pink rabbits when one does not know what rabbits are, right?

If someone would be so kind to give me a clear definition of God and what it/he/she is then I will reconcider my viewpoint.

But until then I don't believe in God - simply because I don't know what the heck I am supposed to believe in.

And no, I am not saying there is no "God", I am not an Athiest, and to be honest - sometimes I even find those athiests batshitinsane.

Trying to prove that something does not exist...(Isn't the point of proving/experimenting/discovering to find out if something exists/what happend/possiblity for something to exist, rather then to disprove the existance? )

[Persemacleus]

Let's get one thing straight right. I am extremely offend to hear that you think someone else died for MY 'sins'. I will answer for my own actions, no-one but me is responsible for what I have done and will do, and no-one but me will answer for those actions.

As for your question, basically what you are asking is how can we all not believe in something that cannot be proven. Just as easily as the fact that I do not believe in fairies, unicorns and flying spaghetti monsters; they are rediculous concepts, with no basis in reality.

Reason is how we build up an understanding of the world around us. Faith means to believe something despite their being no reasonable, rational explanation or evidence to support it.

[Treznor]

Guys i know this forum is bound to be heated but we should at least try to be descreet even thought i was a bit of an ass in my post. we should try to understand him from his point of view

I understand his point of view, because I was raised in a similar perspective just as he's being raised. He's been taught the Truth, absolute and immutable. He has no reason to question this Truth because it was handed down to him by his father, stepmother and whatever authority figures in their church. Now that he's growing up and learning to express himself, he's attempting to hand down this Truth to the world around him as it was presented to him.

He's in for a shock, I'm afraid.

[Bavungria]

Persemacleus you are offended for someone dying for your sins ? Does that mean you would be offended by someone dying to save your life ? or Someone giving you food if you needed it ? :S if you are still with your parents you are saying your parents aren't responsible for you ? if you do not live with your parents or you are older than forget that last point

[Volnotov]

Nope. The French have insanely hot women and delicious baked goods with butter that doesn't kill you.

The Dutch have shoes... made of wood. And windmills. Whoo-fucking-hoo.

Wow, you summed some of the worst possible cultural cliches of the Dutch, ever.

[Bavungria]

Guys i know this forum is bound to be heated but we should at least try to be descreet even thought i was a bit of an ass in my post. we should try to understand him from his point of view

I understand his point of view, because I was raised in a similar perspective just as he's being raised. He's been taught the Truth, absolute and immutable. He has no reason to question this Truth because it was handed down to him by his father, stepmother and whatever authority figures in their church. Now that he's growing up and learning to express himself, he's attempting to hand down this Truth to the world around him as it was presented to him.

He's in for a shock, I'm afraid.

I am guessing you are religious and yes i know the world is quite harsh to people with different point of views :S if you are religious may i ask what religion ?

[Unices]

A man chooses. A slave obeys.

[Person012345]

Persemacleus you are offended for someone dying for your sins ? Does that mean you would be offended by someone dying to save your life ? or Someone giving you food if you needed it ? :S if you are still with your parents you are saying your parents aren't responsible for you ? if you do not live with your parents or you are older than forget that last point

I would be offended if someone died for my life, as it is most likely their life is worth more.
Food is different, that does not harm the person giving.

However, I believe it's more about the implication that I people are so evil and nasty that god had to die just to save us. That is offensive, especially when I think that if god were real, he would be far far more disgusting and immoral than I am.