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Weighting Rural Votes?/Election Reform

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United Muscovite Nations
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18488
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:45 pm

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:What incentive do they have to care? They will win no matter what.

There shouldn't be a representative, we should decide what we do on a grassroots level instead of having trustees make our decisions for us, regardless of how bad those decisions are.


So just have local government and no state government?

Yes, there should be no state. We should be a federation of local communes.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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Kernen
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Posts: 3875
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:45 pm

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:What incentive do they have to care? They will win no matter what.

There shouldn't be a representative, we should decide what we do on a grassroots level instead of having trustees make our decisions for us, regardless of how bad those decisions are.


So just have local government and no state government?

Limited state government and a strong local government is a good approach.
Warning: Poster is a Bad Person.

From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Screw your society. I don't want to be part of it.

Militant Atheist and Juris Doctor. Social liberal, but totally a closet Autocrat.

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:46 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
So just have local government and no state government?

Yes, there should be no state. We should be a federation of local communes.


Well that is never going to happen

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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 18488
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:47 pm

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Yes, there should be no state. We should be a federation of local communes.


Well that is never going to happen

It was pretty much the status quo in Europe until the 1400's.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:47 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Well that is never going to happen

It was pretty much the status quo in Europe until the 1400's.

well this isnt the 1400s

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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 18488
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:49 pm

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:It was pretty much the status quo in Europe until the 1400's.

well this isnt the 1400s

>tfw it is the current year
It is a bad feel.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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Benjabobaria
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Founded: Nov 04, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Benjabobaria » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:50 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Diopolis wrote:All blue voters in a given state should be assigned one particular district, with a single polling booth open only at 2 AM- 3AM and located at the bottom of the state's largest lake. All other districts should be reliably red.


That is not physically possible and obvious nonsense. Can you give a actual response instead of sheer absurdity?

I believe they are mocking the absurdity of Republican voting laws by exaggerating things :p

Rural votes have long been too heavily weighted in America, and the Senate should be abolished/replaced with a house elected by a national popular vote.
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Kernen
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:52 pm

Benjabobaria wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
That is not physically possible and obvious nonsense. Can you give a actual response instead of sheer absurdity?

I believe they are mocking the absurdity of Republican voting laws by exaggerating things :p

Rural votes have long been too heavily weighted in America, and the Senate should be abolished/replaced with a house elected by a national popular vote.

The Senate was created specifically to be less beholden to popular whim and provide an institutionalized stabilizing effect to counter the populist House. That should absolutely not happen.
Last edited by Kernen on Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Warning: Poster is a Bad Person.

From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Screw your society. I don't want to be part of it.

Militant Atheist and Juris Doctor. Social liberal, but totally a closet Autocrat.

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:56 pm

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Upper houses aren't meant to represent the majority of people, they are meant to represent minority interests.


In a state like Nevada 75 percent of the population resides in Clark County other 15 percent in Reno. That's 90 percent of the population in two counties out of seventeen. if you went back to the previous system you would have 90 percent of the population being represented by four people out of 34. Thats if you want two senators per county. How could that body claim to have any legitimacy to speak for the majority of the State?


Because their decisions would represent the majority of the counties?
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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:58 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
In a state like Nevada 75 percent of the population resides in Clark County other 15 percent in Reno. That's 90 percent of the population in two counties out of seventeen. if you went back to the previous system you would have 90 percent of the population being represented by four people out of 34. Thats if you want two senators per county. How could that body claim to have any legitimacy to speak for the majority of the State?


Because their decisions would represent the majority of the counties?

But not a majority of the people

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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:59 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because their decisions would represent the majority of the counties?

But not a majority of the people


That's right.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:00 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But not a majority of the people


That's right.


And why is that fair or democratic?

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The Two Jerseys
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Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:00 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because their decisions would represent the majority of the counties?

But not a majority of the people

That's what the lower house exists for.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:01 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But not a majority of the people

That's what the lower house exists for.


and 90 percent of the population ought to be represented by only four people out of 34 as in Nevada's case and in Delaware sixty percent ought to be represented by only two people out of six senators?

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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:03 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
That's right.


And why is that fair or democratic?


I don't recall saying it was fair, as for democratic, it is because such representatives would be elected.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:03 pm

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:That's what the lower house exists for.


and 90 percent of the population ought to be represented by only four people out of 34 as in Nevada's case and in Delaware sixty percent ought to be represented by only two people out of six senators?


Yes, that's the point.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:04 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And why is that fair or democratic?


I don't recall saying it was fair, as for democratic, it is because such representatives would be elected.


And how could they claim to be making laws that represent everyone when they only represent ten percent of the population?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:04 pm

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:That's what the lower house exists for.


and 90 percent of the population ought to be represented by only four people out of 34 as in Nevada's case and in Delaware sixty percent ought to be represented by only two people out of six senators?

Let me explain this again since you don't seem to get it:

The House of Representatives represents the majority, the Senate represents minority interests and exists so that the majority can't oppress the minority. The latter has less power than the former, but can reject legislation.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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The Two Jerseys
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Posts: 11654
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:06 pm

San Lumen wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:That's what the lower house exists for.


and 90 percent of the population ought to be represented by only four people out of 34 as in Nevada's case and in Delaware sixty percent ought to be represented by only two people out of six senators?

Yes. The upper house exists to prevent the populated urban areas from fucking over the rural areas.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:07 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I don't recall saying it was fair, as for democratic, it is because such representatives would be elected.


And how could they claim to be making laws that represent everyone when they only represent ten percent of the population?


The can't.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11654
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I don't recall saying it was fair, as for democratic, it is because such representatives would be elected.


And how could they claim to be making laws that represent everyone when they only represent ten percent of the population?

Because one house of a bicameral legislature can't make laws by itself.

This is remedial level civics.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

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San Lumen
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Posts: 27491
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:11 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And how could they claim to be making laws that represent everyone when they only represent ten percent of the population?


The can't.


So how can they claim to have any legitimacy?

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United Muscovite Nations
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18488
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The can't.


So how can they claim to have any legitimacy?

No, they can't make laws. A single house cannot make laws.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23681
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The can't.


So how can they claim to have any legitimacy?


No government represents everyone.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27491
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:14 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
So how can they claim to have any legitimacy?


No government represents everyone.

But its designed to represent as many people as possible not a select few.

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