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Weighting Rural Votes?/Election Reform

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Christian Confederation
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Posts: 445
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Christian Confederation » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:44 pm

I personally think it would be good if every county had equally votes,that way every vote would count and not just the major cities and suberbs.it would help keep elections fairer to both urban and rual voters. I know this makes me sound like a leftist but if you look at my nation you will know I'm not,I'm more center right.
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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The subject is state governments, do address the actual conversation please.

All 50 state government s in the US have bicameral congress's. My statement covers state as well as federal governments.


No, not all do, and every one that does has two population based chambers, so no. it doesnt.
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Wallenburg
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 pm

STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.
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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:56 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:All 50 state government s in the US have bicameral congress's. My statement covers state as well as federal governments.

Actually not all of them do, Nebraska is the only state with a unicameral state legislature.

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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:57 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:I personally think it would be good if every county had equally votes,that way every vote would count and not just the major cities and suberbs.it would help keep elections fairer to both urban and rual voters. I know this makes me sound like a leftist but if you look at my nation you will know I'm not,I'm more center right.


That what we already do. Thats what one man one vote is. A vote in a major city counts the same as someone on a farm

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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:57 pm

Telconi wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:All 50 state government s in the US have bicameral congress's. My statement covers state as well as federal governments.


No, not all do, and every one that does has two population based chambers, so no. it doesnt.

Regardless I was addressing the conversation.
Grammar errors attributed to my cellphones autocorrect.

The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

Democracy is a tyranny of the majority. All other forms of government are tyranny's by a minority.

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Diopolis
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:05 pm

Benjabobaria wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
That is not physically possible and obvious nonsense. Can you give a actual response instead of sheer absurdity?

I believe they are mocking the absurdity of Republican voting laws by exaggerating things :p

Rural votes have long been too heavily weighted in America, and the Senate should be abolished/replaced with a house elected by a national popular vote.

Nope. I entirely seriously believe that until we have the stones to reject democracy explicitly, we should do that to keep the left wingers from contaminating our precious political process.
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:08 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
No, not all do, and every one that does has two population based chambers, so no. it doesnt.

Regardless I was addressing the conversation.


Not accurately...
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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:I personally think it would be good if every county had equally votes,that way every vote would count and not just the major cities and suberbs.it would help keep elections fairer to both urban and rual voters. I know this makes me sound like a leftist but if you look at my nation you will know I'm not,I'm more center right.


That what we already do. Thats what one man one vote is. A vote in a major city counts the same as someone on a farm


But there aren't the same number of people in every county...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
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-Freedom of Association
-Life
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-Non Interventionism
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-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:10 pm

Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.


We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:12 pm

Telconi wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Regardless I was addressing the conversation.


Not accurately...

File a complaint than. 98% correct, 2% ocd trigger. :rofl:

Something you probably didn't even know until you googled it after my rebuttle.
Last edited by Unstoppable Empire of Doom on Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grammar errors attributed to my cellphones autocorrect.

The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

Democracy is a tyranny of the majority. All other forms of government are tyranny's by a minority.

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:13 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Not accurately...

File a complaint than. 98% correct, 2% ocd trigger. :rofl:


Your statement applies to literally zero states, so, more like 0% correct.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
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-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
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-Freedom of Association
-Life
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-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Petrolheadia
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Founded: May 02, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Petrolheadia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:45 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Benjabobaria wrote:I believe they are mocking the absurdity of Republican voting laws by exaggerating things :p

Rural votes have long been too heavily weighted in America, and the Senate should be abolished/replaced with a house elected by a national popular vote.

Nope. I entirely seriously believe that until we have the stones to reject democracy explicitly, we should do that to keep the left wingers from contaminating our precious political process.

I guess their ideas are too good to refute.
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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:51 pm

Telconi wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:File a complaint than. 98% correct, 2% ocd trigger. :rofl:


Your statement applies to literally zero states, so, more like 0% correct.

You are wrong and wasting my time now. Learn to comprehend what you read.
Grammar errors attributed to my cellphones autocorrect.

The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

Democracy is a tyranny of the majority. All other forms of government are tyranny's by a minority.

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:59 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Your statement applies to literally zero states, so, more like 0% correct.

You are wrong and wasting my time now. Learn to comprehend what you read.


So, tell me please, in which states to the Senates exist to balance popular vote?
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-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
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-Life
-Limited Government
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ANTI:
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-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Far Easter Republic
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Far Easter Republic » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:06 pm

Well, the US system is:
House determined on population
Each state gets 2 Senate seats
So...
Population above 6 million=288 seats
Population below 6 million=147 seats

Population above 6 million=34 seats
Population below 6 million=66 seats
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:07 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Well that is never going to happen

It was pretty much the status quo in Europe until the 1400's.

The population was also less than 5% of what it is now.

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Wallenburg
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:07 pm

Telconi wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.

We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.

"We spit in the face of rule by the people all the time" isn't a good argument.
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There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:19 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
That what we already do. Thats what one man one vote is. A vote in a major city counts the same as someone on a farm


But there aren't the same number of people in every county...


And your point is what? You should have more representation because you have less votes?
Telconi wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.


We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.


Not unfair undemocratic systems like a by county state senate or a electoral college for statewide elections

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:23 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Upper houses aren't meant to represent the majority of people, they are meant to represent minority interests.

Precisely.

The House represents the majority of people and thus should match the population as best as possible. Which is why I support PR voting system for the house.

While the senate should represent the states.
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The Frozen Forest
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Frozen Forest » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:24 pm

A major issue that i see often is that though technically our elected officials are meant to represent everyone, the truth of the matter is that the officials views and policy decisions may not align to our own. In that case you aren't being represented because your views are not present among the decision making. Additionally, if a politician understands that they can carry a state without having to appeal to a major demographic, then the decisions that they make in office will be tailored to the constituents that brought them victory in the last election. FPTP is a horrible system to be honest, it doesn't maximize voter happiness, which is a major flaw in a democracy. If there should be reform at all, we should be transitioning to Single Transferable Vote, or another method to assign representation in our legislature.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:30 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
That's right.


And why is that fair or democratic?

You’re one to talk. Do I need to remind you about how you said you don’t give a shit about minorities?
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:31 pm

Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.

Personally I think we should go with a PR House and an STV senate
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23681
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:34 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Telconi wrote:We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.

"We spit in the face of rule by the people all the time" isn't a good argument.


It really is though, because our society functions on the basis of "spitting in the face of rule by the people"
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Internationalist Bastard
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:36 pm

Some people votes are worth more
That’s the moral
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