NATION

PASSWORD

Weighting Rural Votes?/Election Reform

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Christian Confederation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1925
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Christian Confederation » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:44 pm

I personally think it would be good if every county had equally votes,that way every vote would count and not just the major cities and suberbs.it would help keep elections fairer to both urban and rual voters. I know this makes me sound like a leftist but if you look at my nation you will know I'm not,I'm more center right.
Founder of the moderate alliance
Open to new members, and embassy's.
My telagram box is always open for productive conversation.
IRL political views center right/ right.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The subject is state governments, do address the actual conversation please.

All 50 state government s in the US have bicameral congress's. My statement covers state as well as federal governments.


No, not all do, and every one that does has two population based chambers, so no. it doesnt.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20769
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 pm

STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1457
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:56 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:All 50 state government s in the US have bicameral congress's. My statement covers state as well as federal governments.

Actually not all of them do, Nebraska is the only state with a unicameral state legislature.

Touche', learn something new every day. Thank you.
The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43306
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:57 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:I personally think it would be good if every county had equally votes,that way every vote would count and not just the major cities and suberbs.it would help keep elections fairer to both urban and rual voters. I know this makes me sound like a leftist but if you look at my nation you will know I'm not,I'm more center right.


That what we already do. Thats what one man one vote is. A vote in a major city counts the same as someone on a farm

User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1457
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:57 pm

Telconi wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:All 50 state government s in the US have bicameral congress's. My statement covers state as well as federal governments.


No, not all do, and every one that does has two population based chambers, so no. it doesnt.

Regardless I was addressing the conversation.
The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16593
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:05 pm

Benjabobaria wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
That is not physically possible and obvious nonsense. Can you give a actual response instead of sheer absurdity?

I believe they are mocking the absurdity of Republican voting laws by exaggerating things :p

Rural votes have long been too heavily weighted in America, and the Senate should be abolished/replaced with a house elected by a national popular vote.

Nope. I entirely seriously believe that until we have the stones to reject democracy explicitly, we should do that to keep the left wingers from contaminating our precious political process.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:08 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
No, not all do, and every one that does has two population based chambers, so no. it doesnt.

Regardless I was addressing the conversation.


Not accurately...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:I personally think it would be good if every county had equally votes,that way every vote would count and not just the major cities and suberbs.it would help keep elections fairer to both urban and rual voters. I know this makes me sound like a leftist but if you look at my nation you will know I'm not,I'm more center right.


That what we already do. Thats what one man one vote is. A vote in a major city counts the same as someone on a farm


But there aren't the same number of people in every county...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:10 pm

Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.


We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1457
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:12 pm

Telconi wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Regardless I was addressing the conversation.


Not accurately...

File a complaint than. 98% correct, 2% ocd trigger. :rofl:

Something you probably didn't even know until you googled it after my rebuttle.
Last edited by Unstoppable Empire of Doom on Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:13 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Not accurately...

File a complaint than. 98% correct, 2% ocd trigger. :rofl:


Your statement applies to literally zero states, so, more like 0% correct.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Petrolheadia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11356
Founded: May 02, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Petrolheadia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:45 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Benjabobaria wrote:I believe they are mocking the absurdity of Republican voting laws by exaggerating things :p

Rural votes have long been too heavily weighted in America, and the Senate should be abolished/replaced with a house elected by a national popular vote.

Nope. I entirely seriously believe that until we have the stones to reject democracy explicitly, we should do that to keep the left wingers from contaminating our precious political process.

I guess their ideas are too good to refute.
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic.
Not sure if left-libertarian, ex-libertarian or without a damn clue.
Where you can talk about cars!
"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1457
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:51 pm

Telconi wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:File a complaint than. 98% correct, 2% ocd trigger. :rofl:


Your statement applies to literally zero states, so, more like 0% correct.

You are wrong and wasting my time now. Learn to comprehend what you read.
The poor don't hate the rich, they hate those who masquerade inherited wealth as hard work.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:59 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Your statement applies to literally zero states, so, more like 0% correct.

You are wrong and wasting my time now. Learn to comprehend what you read.


So, tell me please, in which states to the Senates exist to balance popular vote?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Far Easter Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 504
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Far Easter Republic » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:06 pm

Well, the US system is:
House determined on population
Each state gets 2 Senate seats
So...
Population above 6 million=288 seats
Population below 6 million=147 seats

Population above 6 million=34 seats
Population below 6 million=66 seats
[box]Welcome to the Far Easter Republic, where political angles can be left, right, acute or obtuse.
♂♀Copy and Paste this in your sig if you know there are 2 genders and didn't fail biology♂♀
Browns, Indians and Cavs fan.
8values: Centrist:https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=41.5&d=45.2&g=48.5&s=45.2
9axes:https://9axes.github.io/results.html?a=35&b=70&c=55&d=65&e=80&f=15&g=55&h=55&i=85
Compass:Left/Right:3.25; Authoritarian/Libertarian:1.28
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1159280
The difference between ISIS and Antifa is ISIS is Muslim, and Antifa wears jeans sometimes.

User avatar
The Greater Ohio Valley
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5708
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:07 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Well that is never going to happen

It was pretty much the status quo in Europe until the 1400's.

The population was also less than 5% of what it is now.
28 year old pansexual H. sapien male who likes naps and PS1-era Resident Evil.
Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.

Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

Eternally craving chicken nuggies and chimichangas.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20769
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:07 pm

Telconi wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.

We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.

"We spit in the face of rule by the people all the time" isn't a good argument.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43306
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:19 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
That what we already do. Thats what one man one vote is. A vote in a major city counts the same as someone on a farm


But there aren't the same number of people in every county...


And your point is what? You should have more representation because you have less votes?
Telconi wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.


We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.


Not unfair undemocratic systems like a by county state senate or a electoral college for statewide elections

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59367
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:23 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Upper houses aren't meant to represent the majority of people, they are meant to represent minority interests.

Precisely.

The House represents the majority of people and thus should match the population as best as possible. Which is why I support PR voting system for the house.

While the senate should represent the states.
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
The Frozen Forest
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1643
Founded: Sep 12, 2016
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Frozen Forest » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:24 pm

A major issue that i see often is that though technically our elected officials are meant to represent everyone, the truth of the matter is that the officials views and policy decisions may not align to our own. In that case you aren't being represented because your views are not present among the decision making. Additionally, if a politician understands that they can carry a state without having to appeal to a major demographic, then the decisions that they make in office will be tailored to the constituents that brought them victory in the last election. FPTP is a horrible system to be honest, it doesn't maximize voter happiness, which is a major flaw in a democracy. If there should be reform at all, we should be transitioning to Single Transferable Vote, or another method to assign representation in our legislature.
Well Hi, i joined NS on Feb 1st, 2013 under the name Aztec of america and have been on Nationstates since. I tend to frequent the Portal to the Multi-universe (Nowadays i spend a lot of my time in Nationstates (the sub-forum)). Recently i've been trying to develop The Frozen Forest (I'm still developing my history, culture and relations with other nations), so if you want a historical, trade or diplomatic relationship, shoot me a telegram.

I don't bite, so don't be afraid to say hello.



Royal Marriage with Camelone! (Queen Freja Krieger and High King Frederick Krieger)

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59367
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:30 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
That's right.


And why is that fair or democratic?

You’re one to talk. Do I need to remind you about how you said you don’t give a shit about minorities?
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59367
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:31 pm

Wallenburg wrote:STV or alternative vote would be a big improvement. Giving individual rural voters more power than individual city voters simply because of their location within a state is an absurd notion, however, when considering any attempt to make democracy fairer and more equal.

Personally I think we should go with a PR House and an STV senate
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:34 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Telconi wrote:We give people more power all the time to balance out the excesses of the majority.

"We spit in the face of rule by the people all the time" isn't a good argument.


It really is though, because our society functions on the basis of "spitting in the face of rule by the people"
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24522
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:36 pm

Some people votes are worth more
That’s the moral
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aclion, Aureumterra, Bombadil, BurgSys Holy Russian Empire, Cekoviu, Dytarma, Galloism, Greater Miami Shores, Greed and Death, Grinning Dragon, Kanaitiruss, Middle Barael, Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana, The Hindustani State, Tlaceceyaya, West Kronisia

Advertisement

Remove ads