NationStates

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... n-services

Well, it's a dark day for me.
I am a conservative person who believes in the right of every human for life, I oppose abortion, I see it as a murder and women's excuse to escape responsibility.
I support abortion only if the mother/baby life is in danger, and from this day, Ireland legalized abortion, which before used to be almost totally illegal, I view it as a fall of a great nation in the moral aspect.
What you people, from all the political spectrum, have to say about it? Do you support Ireland's decision to legalize abortion or not?.

The first parts of the article:

"Ireland is poised to roll out its first regular abortion services in the coming weeks in the wake of the referendum vote to lift the country’s near-total ban on abortion.

Politicians and officials fast-tracked legislation and logistical preparations to turn last year’s landslide vote in favour of liberalisation into reality for women who wish to terminate pregnancies.

About nine of the state’s 19 maternity units, plus clinics run by other organisations, have indicated they will be ready to start abortion services in January.

Only 162 of Ireland’s 4,000 GPs have signed up to provide the service, but the government says that will suffice. The government plans to establish “exclusion zones” to move any protests away from clinics".

Already had a thread where it was discusses in detail.

Nothing wrong with it, its good women have the choice at home instead of having to go to another country.

Does Catholicism have a no-tolerance stance on abortion?

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Does Catholicism have a no-tolerance stance on abortion?

Thankfully the catholic churches influence in the country is getting weaker and most people are no longer following every stance of theirs.

Oh lord.

atleast I live in the United States, I'm not a girl either....


the Christians will leave Ireland now

Lesser Trinadaed wrote:Oh lord.

atleast I live in the United States, I'm not a girl either....


the Christians will leave Ireland now

No they wont.

The vast majority of Irelands population are Christian and they are not leaving considering most of the voters voted for this via referendum

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

Lesser Trinadaed wrote:Oh lord.

atleast I live in the United States, I'm not a girl either....


the Christians will leave Ireland now

No they wont.

The vast majority of Irelands population are Christian and they are not leaving considering most of the voters voted for this via referendum

nvm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Does Catholicism have a no-tolerance stance on abortion?

Thankfully the catholic churches influence in the country is getting weaker and most people are no longer following every stance of theirs.

Thank you for that info, but that's not what I asked.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thankfully the catholic churches influence in the country is getting weaker and most people are no longer following every stance of theirs.

Thank you for that info, but that's not what I asked.

Yes it does. I thought i put that in the beginning of the post.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thankfully the catholic churches influence in the country is getting weaker and most people are no longer following every stance of theirs.

Thank you for that info, but that's not what I asked.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes abortion in pretty much all circumstances. So yes, you can call that zero tolerance.

Nice

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Does Catholicism have a no-tolerance stance on abortion?

Abortion is contrary to the Catechism of the Church as expressed by its fifth commandment sections 2270 to 2275 because it is infanticide and thus gravely contary to the moral law. The procuration of abortion is a moral evil, and anyone formally cooperating in an abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae (by the act itself, IE with no need for the formal process of excommunication).

However, it is permissible (but not necessary) to indirectly cause an abortion under the Doctrine of Double Effect, when the intended outcome is not abortion, but some other permissible goal that has the death of the child as the lamentable but unavoidable outcome of the procedure: IE treatment for ectopic pregnancy or aggressive uterine cancer often involves removal or organs that are a certain death for the child, but failing to do so would result in the greater evil of the death of the mother AND the child.

My understanding is that the Catholic position might be compared to the Sunni Malikite view, while Hanafites, Shafites, and Hanbalites are, on the whole, rather more permissive.

---

As for the ostensible topic of this thread, we already did this, but I will repeat that I pray that the legislature of Ireland exercises wisdom, restraint, and proper respect for the moral law with any laws it passes due to the unfortunate repeal of the 8th Amendment to the Republic of Ireland's constitution.

Lesser Trinadaed wrote:Oh lord.

atleast I live in the United States, I'm not a girl either....


the Christians will leave Ireland now

You do realize that abortion has been legal in the US for decades and Christians are still around

What I genuinely think is that what the people of Ireland do within the borders of their country is an issue that is entirely up to them. We have no right to even have an opinion on the subject.

Purpelia wrote:What I genuinely think is that what the people of Ireland do within the borders of their country is an issue that is entirely up to them. We have no right to even have an opinion on the subject.

My opinion is favorable. Mostly.

It's near impossible to not have an opinion on something, and not living there doesn't stop opinions.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Purpelia wrote:What I genuinely think is that what the people of Ireland do within the borders of their country is an issue that is entirely up to them. We have no right to even have an opinion on the subject.

My opinion is favorable. Mostly.

It's near impossible to not have an opinion on something, and not living there doesn't stop opinions.

You do not seem to understand the point of my post. Put simply, I am of the "feel what you want, but unless the issue concerns you keep it to your self" school of thought. And I feel that the internal politics of any nation other than my own by definition do not concern me.

Functionally people just went to the UK for abortions prior to this and in only impacted those who could not take time off work and could not afford to be in the UK for the process. So poor people basically. The government of Ireland had been repaying the UK for these proceedures prior to this, so tax money still funded it anyway and so on too. This merely means that the process is now more transparent and can be accessed by the poor as well.

This is mostly old news, but I think it is very unfortunate that this happened. That is not to say that I am not concerned about pregnant women, but why don't we help them out by giving them paid maternity leave and quality healthcare instead of just killing unborn babies? Also, it is sad to see the leadership of Fine Gael, which used to be a conservative party supporting legal abortion. Now who will socially conservative Irish voters have to turn to?

Just wanna throw this out here before we get a bunch of extreme moralists, personally I see abortion as an evil however I want to remind yall that the woman who is put in a situation where she has to choose should not be treated like human trash... abortions are, at the end of the day, extremely traumatic events and the women who go through them are victims... not "whores"

I think it is better for Irish women to be able to have their abortions in Ireland rather than England.

Bienenhalde wrote:This is mostly old news, but I think it is very unfortunate that this happened. That is not to say that I am not concerned about pregnant women, but why don't we help them out by giving them paid maternity leave and quality healthcare instead of just killing unborn babies? Also, it is sad to see the leadership of Fine Gael, which used to be a conservative party supporting legal abortion. Now who will socially conservative Irish voters have to turn to?

>implying you're not truly socially conservative if you support abortion

It's a great shame.

Vassenor wrote:

Bienenhalde wrote:This is mostly old news, but I think it is very unfortunate that this happened. That is not to say that I am not concerned about pregnant women, but why don't we help them out by giving them paid maternity leave and quality healthcare instead of just killing unborn babies? Also, it is sad to see the leadership of Fine Gael, which used to be a conservative party supporting legal abortion. Now who will socially conservative Irish voters have to turn to?

>implying you're not truly socially conservative if you support abortion

If you're not trying to conserve Christian social values, what is a conservative trying to conserve?

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
>implying you're not truly socially conservative if you support abortion

If you're not trying to conserve Christian social values, what is a conservative trying to conserve?

Not all conservatives are Christians.

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
>implying you're not truly socially conservative if you support abortion

If you're not trying to conserve Christian social values, what is a conservative trying to conserve?

The world does not exist to preserve Christian Social Values.