Ireland legalized abortion: what do YOU think about this?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Are you implying you think women who have abortions feel fucking happy afterwards?

If you would read my above posts, you’d know that I don’t. It was more of an intended pot shot at you treating the ending the lives of humans with careless dismissal.

Where do I do that?

[Ors Might]

If you would read my above posts, you’d know that I don’t. It was more of an intended pot shot at you treating the ending the lives of humans with careless dismissal.

Where do I do that?

Alright so you're killing unborn babies. How does the change of terminology make it any less disgusting?

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

In this particular post, you treat disgust with ending the lives of humans as a difference of taste rather than as a valued moral principle.

[The Grims]

Are you a pacifist?

Not at all. I’m willing to use force to protect myself or others. But I’m not willing to kill others unless I have no choice left, aside from myself or innocents dying. I certainly wouldn’t be fucking happy afterwards.

Well, that depends. If one views embryos to be merely clumps of cells with potential it is easy to value damage to them as ess relevant than damage to fully developed human beings.

I find that argument inherently flawed. If you’re using fully developed to mean fully grown human beings, it’s even more inherently flawed. Few would argue that harming children is more acceptable than harming adults, for example.

But what I presume you’re actually arguing is that harm done to an unborn human is more acceptable than harm done to a born human. Why is passing through a birth canal the variable that adds value to a human life? Does a baby not have value five minutes prior to this? What’s the cutoff?

The generally accepted cutoff point for this argument is the moment the fetus acquires the ability to experience things. This stems from philosophy that that is the moment one does harm.

[Ors Might]

Not at all. I’m willing to use force to protect myself or others. But I’m not willing to kill others unless I have no choice left, aside from myself or innocents dying. I certainly wouldn’t be fucking happy afterwards.


I find that argument inherently flawed. If you’re using fully developed to mean fully grown human beings, it’s even more inherently flawed. Few would argue that harming children is more acceptable than harming adults, for example.

But what I presume you’re actually arguing is that harm done to an unborn human is more acceptable than harm done to a born human. Why is passing through a birth canal the variable that adds value to a human life? Does a baby not have value five minutes prior to this? What’s the cutoff?

The generally accepted cutoff point for this argument is the moment the fetus acquires the ability to experience things. This stems from philosophy that that is the moment one does harm.

Which I take isn’t the exact moment that the fetus leaves the womb?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Where do I do that?

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

In this particular post, you treat disgust with ending the lives of humans as a difference of taste rather than as a valued moral principle.

Because it is. Disgust can attach to all sorts of things, there is no morality behind it.

[The Grims]

The generally accepted cutoff point for this argument is the moment the fetus acquires the ability to experience things. This stems from philosophy that that is the moment one does harm.

Which I take isn’t the exact moment that the fetus leaves the womb?

Ohno, far earlier. But also a few weeks after elective abortions are legal in most countries.

[Petrolheadia]

Well, time to open a Tullamore.

[Petrolheadia]

Where do I do that?

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

In this particular post, you treat disgust with ending the lives of humans as a difference of taste rather than as a valued moral principle.

Well, if it was a human at this point, I might agree...

[Ifreann]

Well, it didn't take long for us to start fucking this right up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.3761420

A woman is being denied an abortion by the board of the Coombe, one of our main maternity hospitals, overriding the decision of her doctors. Scans reportedly show that the foetus' organs are growing outside its body, an abnormality that the woman's doctor and two consultants agree will prove fatal, but the board is not allowing an abortion, instead telling this woman to wait four weeks(she's currently in her 14th week) to see if there's a spontaneous miscarriage. The woman's doctors have told her that she can go to England, the exact situation we had a referendum to keep from happening. We changed our constitution to make abortion legal, and now a hospital just won't do it, seemingly for no reason. This fucking country, man.

[The New California Republic]

Well, it didn't take long for us to start fucking this right up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.3761420

A woman is being denied an abortion by the board of the Coombe, one of our main maternity hospitals, overriding the decision of her doctors. Scans reportedly show that the foetus' organs are growing outside its body, an abnormality that the woman's doctor and two consultants agree will prove fatal, but the board is not allowing an abortion, instead telling this woman to wait four weeks(she's currently in her 14th week) to see if there's a spontaneous miscarriage. The woman's doctors have told her that she can go to England, the exact situation we had a referendum to keep from happening. We changed our constitution to make abortion legal, and now a hospital just won't do it, seemingly for no reason. This fucking country, man.

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

[Page]

Are you implying you think women who have abortions feel fucking happy afterwards?

While I don't think anyone finds having an abortion to be euphoric, many are just relieved or completely emotionally unaffected. Movies and TV shows have made us think that everyone who has an abortion feels guilty or miserable, but the truth is a lot of people do not experience any negative emotions and feel completely fine about their choice.

[Des-Bal]

Ohno, far earlier. But also a few weeks after elective abortions are legal in most countries.

When is it?

[The Grims]

Ohno, far earlier. But also a few weeks after elective abortions are legal in most countries.

When is it?

About week 20. Laws vary by country and state, but most restrict elective after 12 to 18 weeks.

[Hakons]

Well, it didn't take long for us to start fucking this right up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.3761420

A woman is being denied an abortion by the board of the Coombe, one of our main maternity hospitals, overriding the decision of her doctors. Scans reportedly show that the foetus' organs are growing outside its body, an abnormality that the woman's doctor and two consultants agree will prove fatal, but the board is not allowing an abortion, instead telling this woman to wait four weeks(she's currently in her 14th week) to see if there's a spontaneous miscarriage. The woman's doctors have told her that she can go to England, the exact situation we had a referendum to keep from happening. We changed our constitution to make abortion legal, and now a hospital just won't do it, seemingly for no reason. This fucking country, man.

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

[Des-Bal]

About week 20. Laws vary by country and state, but most restrict elective after 12 to 18 weeks.

I'm not asking about the law I'm asking when the fetus can experience things.

[The New California Republic]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

Fetuses aren't people. Jeez man, how many times do we need to hammer this point home?

Voluntary euthanasia is a completely different kettle of fish. And we do allow people to die, as shown by the presence of the Dignitas clinic.

And the fetus in this case is going to die anyway:

Scans reportedly show that the foetus' organs are growing outside its body, an abnormality that the woman's doctor and two consultants agree will prove fatal

[The Huskar Social Union]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

Its a fatal abnormality, the foetus is done for anyway. All they are doing is making the woman suffer for longer. Its organs are growing outside of its body. Three medical professionals, the womans own doctor and two others have stated this.

[Luziyca]

Good on Ireland.

[Ifreann]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous?

Correct.

When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with.

Critical difference being that most fatally ill people are not inside someone else.

Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

Abortion is legal, though. That's literally the topic of this thread.

[The Grims]

About week 20. Laws vary by country and state, but most restrict elective after 12 to 18 weeks.

I'm not asking about the law I'm asking when the fetus can experience things.

I just told you.

[Adad Civilization]

Good

[Dogmeat]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

I love that your moral outrage is directed in favor of making two people suffer pointlessly for a month.

I mean, Jesus Christ. That kid's organs are on the outside. That's got to be agony. And it's not like he or she has any mitigating factor that might make life worth living. Their existence is an airless, dark, fleshy sack. There are punishments in The Inferno that aren't as bad as this.

[Genivaria]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

So you want to make 2 people suffer instead of one despite the fact that the fetus is doomed regardless? Jesus Christ bro.

[Estanglia]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

Firstly, fetuses aren't people.

Secondly, the fetus will die anyway. All you're doing by denying this woman an abortion is prolonging her suffering. That's monstrous.

[West Leas Oros 2]

That is seriously fucked up. I knew that it may take some time for the decision to allow abortions to be fully accepted and implemented, but not when the situation is as clear cut as this is. So the woman has to have her suffering prolonged by a month while waiting for the possibility that the fetus will be miscarried? Completely monstrous.

"So let's just kill the fetus" isn't monstrous? When people are ill, we don't murder them to get it over with. Murder doesn't become legal if a person is terminally ill.

Isn’t it legal to euthanize someone if they give consent?