Ireland legalized abortion: what do YOU think about this?

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

It's a sad day when making a person care after their own flesh and blood, children that are entirely innocent and without knowledge of evil, is considered treating the mother as a non-person.

[The New California Republic]

It's a sad day when making a person care after their own flesh and blood, children that are entirely innocent and without knowledge of evil, is considered treating the mother as a non-person.

Shame that a fetus isn't classed as a child tho, so your statement really doesn't apply here.

And forcing the woman to carry the unwanted fetus to term is enslavement of the woman to the fetus for 9 months, giving the fetus a right over her that no person has.

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

Shame that a fetus isn't classed as a child tho, so your statement really doesn't apply here.

And forcing the woman to carry the unwanted fetus to term is enslavement of the woman to the fetus for 9 months, giving the fetus a right over her that no person has.

It's troubling that you're willing to permanently end the life of an unborn child, even the potential to life with everything in it with no second chances because of semantics.

Murder trumps your version of "slavery", which frankly makes a mockery of actual slaves.

[The New California Republic]

Shame that a fetus isn't classed as a child tho, so your statement really doesn't apply here.

And forcing the woman to carry the unwanted fetus to term is enslavement of the woman to the fetus for 9 months, giving the fetus a right over her that no person has.

It's troubling that you're willing to permanently end the life of an unborn child, even the potential to life with everything in it with no second chances because of semantics.

Murder trumps your version of "slavery", which frankly makes a mockery of actual slaves.

I don't carry out abortions. And this has all been debated until doomsday in the previous threads, especially regarding words actually meaning things in the context of the debate, and also the fact that abortion is not murder.

And it doesn't make a mockery of slaves at all. The woman is having her body usurped against her will in conditions that offer no other reasonable recourse for escape in the event of abortion being banned. Seems like enslavement of her body to me...

[Mardla]

Lacking so much self-respect that you say you aren't even responsible for your own offspring is a much greater self insult, I think.

The hell happened Parkus? You never used to resort to low blows such as this ridiculous little ad hominem-esque bullshit. Seriously...

when the topic is killing innocent babies, etiquette is a vulgarity

[Mardla]

It's troubling that you're willing to permanently end the life of an unborn child, even the potential to life with everything in it with no second chances because of semantics.

Murder trumps your version of "slavery", which frankly makes a mockery of actual slaves.

I don't carry out abortions. And this has all been debated until doomsday in the previous threads, especially regarding words actually meaning things in the context of the debate, and also the fact that abortion is not murder.

And it doesn't make a mockery of slaves at all. The woman is having her body usurped against her will in conditions that offer no other reasonable recourse for escape in the event of abortion being banned. Seems like enslavement of her body to me...

Then child support is theft?

[The New California Republic]

I don't carry out abortions. And this has all been debated until doomsday in the previous threads, especially regarding words actually meaning things in the context of the debate, and also the fact that abortion is not murder.

And it doesn't make a mockery of slaves at all. The woman is having her body usurped against her will in conditions that offer no other reasonable recourse for escape in the event of abortion being banned. Seems like enslavement of her body to me...

Then child support is theft?

Parkus you naughty boy, resorting to strawmen?

[Mardla]

Then child support is theft?

Parkus you naughty boy, resorting to strawmen?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_analogy

[The New California Republic]

Parkus you naughty boy, resorting to strawmen?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_analogy

Except that it steps beyond the bounds of analogy and into the realm of strawmanning because the disconnect between what I was talking about and what you mentioned is so severe.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Shame that a fetus isn't classed as a child tho, so your statement really doesn't apply here.

And forcing the woman to carry the unwanted fetus to term is enslavement of the woman to the fetus for 9 months, giving the fetus a right over her that no person has.

It's troubling that you're willing to permanently end the life of an unborn child, even the potential to life with everything in it with no second chances because of semantics.

Murder trumps your version of "slavery", which frankly makes a mockery of actual slaves.

Murder is whatever the state defines it as legally. So soldiers killing, executions, and yes abortion, are not murder when the state says they aren't.

[Ifreann]

You said it yourself.

And I'm telling you that we are rejecting Christianity and the control of the Church because of the centuries of abuse they subjected us to. Not just all the sexual abuses by priests and the resulting cover-ups, but also the treatment of the children they stole from us, children who were treated as outcasts in their own communities because the Church taught us that they were bastards born of sin, children they sold abroad because illegal adoptions are "better" than letting a single mother raise her own child, children they cared so little for that one mother and baby home has been found to have the remains of hundreds of babies and children, not respectfully given Christian burials but disposed of unceremoniously in a disused fucking septic tank.

It should surprise no one that the people of Ireland are no longer interested in moral teachings the religious organisations that did that to us and to our children.

---

The Church has shown incomprehensible cruelty to the most vulnerable members of our society for centuries, so let's stop listening to what they tell us is right or wrong.

Considering you're celebrating the slaughter, dismemberment, and chemical evisceration of babies, perhaps spare us the moral grandstanding? The morality of the Church is dependent on God, not her sinful human members.

According to...the sinful human members of the Church...hmmm

Members of the Church have obviously treated others badly, but that is obviously not a reason to commit mass infanticide.

You should try reading my post again, because it doesn't say anything like that.

[Ors Might]

It's troubling that you're willing to permanently end the life of an unborn child, even the potential to life with everything in it with no second chances because of semantics.

Murder trumps your version of "slavery", which frankly makes a mockery of actual slaves.

Murder is whatever the state defines it as legally. So soldiers killing, executions, and yes abortion, are not murder when the state says they aren't.

Alright so you're killing unborn babies. How does the change of terminology make it any less disgusting?

[The Grims]

Murder is whatever the state defines it as legally. So soldiers killing, executions, and yes abortion, are not murder when the state says they aren't.

Alright so you're killing unborn babies. How does the change of terminology make it any less disgusting?

By calling them embryos, which are husks of human flesh with no feelings or thoughts instead of babies, which are cute little humans.

[Ors Might]

Alright so you're killing unborn babies. How does the change of terminology make it any less disgusting?

By calling them embryos, which are husks of human flesh with no feelings or thoughts instead of babies, which are cute little humans.

Cute is debatable. While they’re somewhat adorable wrinkly potatoes when they’re asleep, when they’re crying they look like devils.

Regardless of what you call them, you are ending a human life. Not a human being, mind you, but a human life nonetheless. One that has the potential for possibilities so numerous that from our perspective they might as well be infinite. Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, it is no small thing to end a human life. It deserves proper weight in discussion, not callous dismissal.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

It's a sad day when making a person care after their own flesh and blood, children that are entirely innocent and without knowledge of evil, is considered treating the mother as a non-person.

Emotional appeal noted and rejected. Innocence and evil are both subjective and irrelevant. Whether the fetus intends harm or not is inconsequential to the fact that it still presents a harm if the woman does not wish it to remain in her body.

Even treating the fetus as a person does not give it the right to use another person’s body without their consent.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

By calling them embryos, which are husks of human flesh with no feelings or thoughts instead of babies, which are cute little humans.

Cute is debatable. While they’re somewhat adorable wrinkly potatoes when they’re asleep, when they’re crying they look like devils.

Regardless of what you call them, you are ending a human life. Not a human being, mind you, but a human life nonetheless. One that has the potential for possibilities so numerous that from our perspective they might as well be infinite. Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, it is no small thing to end a human life. It deserves proper weight in discussion, not callous dismissal.

The problem with that is both sides are guilty of either inflating or deflating the ‘value’ of the fetus. Pro-Life types go into fluffy kittens and ‘innocence’ while pro-life types are a little quick on the draw to state that a fetus isn’t alive (just giving examples).

You’re right that it is a weighty decision. It is wrong however to presume that a woman does not give that decision its due consideration (not saying that is what you are doing, but there are posters here who do exactly that).

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Murder is whatever the state defines it as legally. So soldiers killing, executions, and yes abortion, are not murder when the state says they aren't.

Alright so you're killing unborn babies. How does the change of terminology make it any less disgusting?

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

[Ors Might]

Cute is debatable. While they’re somewhat adorable wrinkly potatoes when they’re asleep, when they’re crying they look like devils.

Regardless of what you call them, you are ending a human life. Not a human being, mind you, but a human life nonetheless. One that has the potential for possibilities so numerous that from our perspective they might as well be infinite. Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, it is no small thing to end a human life. It deserves proper weight in discussion, not callous dismissal.

The problem with that is both sides are guilty of either inflating or deflating the ‘value’ of the fetus. Pro-Life types go into fluffy kittens and ‘innocence’ while pro-life types are a little quick on the draw to state that a fetus isn’t alive (just giving examples).

You’re right that it is a weighty decision. It is wrong however to presume that a woman does not give that decision its due consideration (not saying that is what you are doing, but there are posters here who do exactly that).

I presume that it’s not an easy choice for the vast majority of women. When I try to put mtself in their shoes, I typically end up with feelings of guilt. Though I disapprove of what they do, I can’t help but feel a twinge of sympathy for them that they felt the need to make such a decision. Which is partially why I favor letting abortion stay legal while work on reducing the circumstances that lead to these choices, with a focus on making artificial wombs viable enough for wide scale usage.

[Ors Might]

Alright so you're killing unborn babies. How does the change of terminology make it any less disgusting?

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

And I find remorselessly and disdainfully ending human life disgusting. Somehow I feel like my disgust has a stronger argument behind it.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

The problem with that is both sides are guilty of either inflating or deflating the ‘value’ of the fetus. Pro-Life types go into fluffy kittens and ‘innocence’ while pro-life types are a little quick on the draw to state that a fetus isn’t alive (just giving examples).

You’re right that it is a weighty decision. It is wrong however to presume that a woman does not give that decision its due consideration (not saying that is what you are doing, but there are posters here who do exactly that).

I presume that it’s not an easy choice for the vast majority of women. When I try to put mtself in their shoes, I typically end up with feelings of guilt. Though I disapprove of what they do, I can’t help but feel a twinge of sympathy for them that they felt the need to make such a decision. Which is partially why I favor letting abortion stay legal while work on reducing the circumstances that lead to these choices, with a focus on making artificial wombs viable enough for wide scale usage.

Artificial wombs strike as a pipe dream, but the remainder is agreed upon.

Edited to correct auto-correct.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

And I find remorselessly and disdainfully ending human life disgusting. Somehow I feel like my disgust has a stronger argument behind it.

Are you a pacifist?

[The Grims]

What makes you feel disgust differs from individual to individual. I find the Catholic Church disgusting.

And I find remorselessly and disdainfully ending human life disgusting. Somehow I feel like my disgust has a stronger argument behind it.

Well, that depends. If one views embryos to be merely clumps of cells with potential it is easy to value damage to them as ess relevant than damage to fully developed human beings.

[Ors Might]

And I find remorselessly and disdainfully ending human life disgusting. Somehow I feel like my disgust has a stronger argument behind it.

Are you a pacifist?

Not at all. I’m willing to use force to protect myself or others. But I’m not willing to kill others unless I have no choice left, aside from myself or innocents dying. I certainly wouldn’t be fucking happy afterwards.

And I find remorselessly and disdainfully ending human life disgusting. Somehow I feel like my disgust has a stronger argument behind it.

Well, that depends. If one views embryos to be merely clumps of cells with potential it is easy to value damage to them as ess relevant than damage to fully developed human beings.

I find that argument inherently flawed. If you’re using fully developed to mean fully grown human beings, it’s even more inherently flawed. Few would argue that harming children is more acceptable than harming adults, for example.

But what I presume you’re actually arguing is that harm done to an unborn human is more acceptable than harm done to a born human. Why is passing through a birth canal the variable that adds value to a human life? Does a baby not have value five minutes prior to this? What’s the cutoff?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Are you a pacifist?

Not at all. I’m willing to use force to protect myself or others. But I’m not willing to kill others unless I have no choice left, aside from myself or innocents dying. I certainly wouldn’t be fucking happy afterwards.

Are you implying you think women who have abortions feel fucking happy afterwards?

[Ors Might]

Not at all. I’m willing to use force to protect myself or others. But I’m not willing to kill others unless I have no choice left, aside from myself or innocents dying. I certainly wouldn’t be fucking happy afterwards.

Are you implying you think women who have abortions feel fucking happy afterwards?

If you would read my above posts, you’d know that I don’t. It was more of an intended pot shot at you treating the ending the lives of humans with careless dismissal.