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2019-2020 US Elections Megathread I- It Begins

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Candidate do you support?

Bernie
102
33%
Beto
3
1%
Biden
15
5%
Buttigieg
27
9%
Harris
4
1%
Warren
17
6%
Yang
24
8%
Trump
88
29%
Weld
3
1%
Other
25
8%
 
Total votes : 308

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:28 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You do understand that benefit was gained at the cost of those norms right? On the contrary a stable and strong nation is generally a good thing.


"Destroying centuries' old norms and procedures in the Senate will make the country more stable"

???


Your insistence that that's all he did is ridiculous...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:18 pm

Telconi wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Why do you hate the American Republic?


Working for the betterment of things means you hate them.

Yeah denying court picks to Trumps predecessor and rubber stamping everything the President wants is really bettering things.

lets not forget how you complained last year that because the winners of their statewide offices got less land area they shouldnt take office, called for the peaceful transfer to not be respected, and anyone who voted against your candidates terrible people
Last edited by San Lumen on Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:19 pm

I mean, Trump's probably going to be reelected our best wishes.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:23 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Oh boo hoo. You lost that one, get over it.

When we start treating the governance of the nation like a pick up basketball game...


Like we don’t already.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:24 pm

Telconi wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
"Destroying centuries' old norms and procedures in the Senate will make the country more stable"

???


Your insistence that that's all he did is ridiculous...



Yes, yes, he also got the judge you liked sworn in to do things you approve of (or the thing you approve of, rather), but opened a can of worms that lets Democrats be as opportunistic whenever the time arises, which you would say is bad.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:24 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:When we start treating the governance of the nation like a pick up basketball game...


Like we don’t already.


I love it when people acknowledge they're apart of the problem but don't seem too keen on actually fixing it.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:27 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Like we don’t already.


I love it when people acknowledge they're apart of the problem but don't seem too keen on actually fixing it.


I do try to fix it. I left the party and i vote independent.but I can’t right the ship alone. So I the meantime I’ll treat it like a spectator sport .
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:28 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I love it when people acknowledge they're apart of the problem but don't seem too keen on actually fixing it.


I do try to fix it. I left the party and i vote independent.but I can’t right the ship alone. So I the meantime I’ll treat it like a spectator sport .

Politics isnt a spectator sport it has real world consequences.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:28 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Your insistence that that's all he did is ridiculous...



Yes, yes, he also got the judge you liked sworn in to do things you approve of (or the thing you approve of, rather), but opened a can of worms that lets Democrats be as opportunistic whenever the time arises, which you would say is bad.


Ironic as how Democrats caused the issue by setting dangerous precedent in the first place.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:29 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
I do try to fix it. I left the party and i vote independent.but I can’t right the ship alone. So I the meantime I’ll treat it like a spectator sport .

Politics isnt a spectator sport it has real world consequences.

Doesn’t mean it’s not conducted as such.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:29 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Valrifell wrote:

Yes, yes, he also got the judge you liked sworn in to do things you approve of (or the thing you approve of, rather), but opened a can of worms that lets Democrats be as opportunistic whenever the time arises, which you would say is bad.


Ironic as how Democrats caused the issue by setting dangerous precedent in the first place.

No that was McConnell refusing to to due his job and denying Obama dozens of judges including the Supreme Court and his Senate colleagues should have overruled him but didnt have the guts or will

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:37 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Ironic as how Democrats caused the issue by setting dangerous precedent in the first place.

No that was McConnell refusing to to due his job and denying Obama dozens of judges including the Supreme Court and his Senate colleagues should have overruled him but didnt have the guts or will


Yup. Democrats invoke nuclear option, measured and justified. Republicans do it, reckless and a threat to our democracy.

Like I said, it’s a team sport.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:38 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:No that was McConnell refusing to to due his job and denying Obama dozens of judges including the Supreme Court and his Senate colleagues should have overruled him but didnt have the guts or will


Yup. Democrats invoke nuclear option, measured and justified. Republicans do it, reckless and a threat to our democracy.

Like I said, it’s a team sport.

Or maybe both parties could do their damm job and actually govern

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:44 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:No that was McConnell refusing to to due his job and denying Obama dozens of judges including the Supreme Court and his Senate colleagues should have overruled him but didnt have the guts or will


Yup. Democrats invoke nuclear option, measured and justified. Republicans do it, reckless and a threat to our democracy.

Like I said, it’s a team sport.


I'm only allowed to complain about things I was w o k e for, thems the breaks.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:46 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Yup. Democrats invoke nuclear option, measured and justified. Republicans do it, reckless and a threat to our democracy.

Like I said, it’s a team sport.

Or maybe both parties could do their damm job and actually govern

So vote 3rd party. Break the wheel.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:47 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Or maybe both parties could do their damm job and actually govern

So vote 3rd party. Break the wheel.

third parties never put up people with a snowballs chance in hell of winning

User avatar
Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31140
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:48 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:So vote 3rd party. Break the wheel.

third parties never put up people with a snowballs chance in hell of winning


So even though you support the green shirts, you’ll always vote blue shirts so the red shirts don’t win.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Your insistence that that's all he did is ridiculous...



Yes, yes, he also got the judge you liked sworn in to do things you approve of (or the thing you approve of, rather), but opened a can of worms that lets Democrats be as opportunistic whenever the time arises, which you would say is bad.


As if they didnt have the option before ol' Garland?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Ngelmish
Minister
 
Posts: 3071
Founded: Dec 06, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:No that was McConnell refusing to to due his job and denying Obama dozens of judges including the Supreme Court and his Senate colleagues should have overruled him but didnt have the guts or will


Yup. Democrats invoke nuclear option, measured and justified. Republicans do it, reckless and a threat to our democracy.

Like I said, it’s a team sport.


If you want to seriously make that argument, you'd cite Bork, not 2013.

User avatar
Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:51 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:third parties never put up people with a snowballs chance in hell of winning


So even though you support the green shirts, you’ll always vote blue shirts so the red shirts don’t win.

And this is why I hate FPTP and even democracy itself.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:53 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
So even though you support the green shirts, you’ll always vote blue shirts so the red shirts don’t win.

And this is why I hate FPTP and even democracy itself.

Yeah because how dare the person with the most votes win. Land areas should matter more that's much fairer. Elections in your state last year weren't fair because your candidate got more land area but less votes but somehow its fair that Republicans kept the legislature despite getting less votes.

I agree the voting system could be changed and probably should be but to say you hate democracy is scary.
Last edited by San Lumen on Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:And this is why I hate FPTP and even democracy itself.

Yeah because how dare the person with the most votes win. Land areas should matter more that's much fairer. Elections in your state last year weren't fair because your candidate got more land area but less votes but somehow its fair that Republicans kept the legislature despite getting less votes.

I agree the voting system could be changed and probably should be but to say you hate democracy is scary.


Democracy is scary.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87334
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah because how dare the person with the most votes win. Land areas should matter more that's much fairer. Elections in your state last year weren't fair because your candidate got more land area but less votes but somehow its fair that Republicans kept the legislature despite getting less votes.

I agree the voting system could be changed and probably should be but to say you hate democracy is scary.


Democracy is scary.

Yeah how awful the people choose who they want and person with the most votes win. A one party dictatorship like Russia , Belarus, Kazakhstan or Eritrea is so much better.

User avatar
Ngelmish
Minister
 
Posts: 3071
Founded: Dec 06, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm

Telconi wrote:
Valrifell wrote:

Yes, yes, he also got the judge you liked sworn in to do things you approve of (or the thing you approve of, rather), but opened a can of worms that lets Democrats be as opportunistic whenever the time arises, which you would say is bad.


As if they didnt have the option before ol' Garland?


Are you implying that endless political escalation should be incentivized? Or merely that you don't particularly care if it is?

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:57 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Democracy is scary.

Yeah how awful the people choose who they want and person with the most votes win. A one party dictatorship like Russia , Belarus, Kazakhstan or Eritrea is so much better.


Glad to see you're coming around.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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