2019-2020 US Elections Megathread I- It Begins

[Seges]

hate to just hop in like this but if the Dems keep pushing each other farther and farther left and keep slandering each other Trumps not even going to have to campaign to win.

[Cannot think of a name]

hate to just hop in like this but if the Dems keep pushing each other farther and farther left and keep slandering each other Trumps not even going to have to campaign to win.

Yeah, stop distinguishing yourself as an alternative. Just keep riding the GOP's hard right turn...

[Seges]

hate to just hop in like this but if the Dems keep pushing each other farther and farther left and keep slandering each other Trumps not even going to have to campaign to win.

Yeah, stop distinguishing yourself as an alternative. Just keep riding the GOP's hard right turn...

I wouldn't say it's a hard right but yeah it's getting more right as the system naturally does.
Well, I mean yeah it's a two party system everybody is an alternative.

[Page]

hate to just hop in like this but if the Dems keep pushing each other farther and farther left and keep slandering each other Trumps not even going to have to campaign to win.

Pretty much the opposite is true. The Republicans keep moving further and further toward the far right and in doing so, they bait the Democrats into moving to a new 'center' which is where the right used to be, and many Democrats take that bait and most Democrats who do lose, while real progressives win. A great example is Obamacare. The most unpopular part of Obamacare is the individual mandate, an idea originally conceived by the GOP in the 90's, and that aspect poisoned the whole bill, along with the fact that Obamacare was a half assed reform altogether. Hillary Clinton campaigned on 'Obamacare is great, everything is fine with health care' and she lost

You know why? Because that was a slap in the face of every person who is at best bankrupt from medical bills and worst literally going to die from not being able to afford health care. They figure that if the Democrat doesn't give a shit whether they live or die, why bother voting at all, or hell just vote for Trump because since I am screwed no matter who wins, at least this jerk will spite the establishment that doesn't care about me.

If Democrats lose this time around, they will lose because they chose a candidate who stands for nothing. If they win, they will win because they chose a candidate who will enact meaningful change.

[San Lumen]

hate to just hop in like this but if the Dems keep pushing each other farther and farther left and keep slandering each other Trumps not even going to have to campaign to win.

Pretty much the opposite is true. The Republicans keep moving further and further toward the far right and in doing so, they bait the Democrats into moving to a new 'center' which is where the right used to be, and many Democrats take that bait and most Democrats who do lose, while real progressives win. A great example is Obamacare. The most unpopular part of Obamacare is the individual mandate, an idea originally conceived by the GOP in the 90's, and that aspect poisoned the whole bill, along with the fact that Obamacare was a half assed reform altogether. Hillary Clinton campaigned on 'Obamacare is great, everything is fine with health care' and she lost

You know why? Because that was a slap in the face of every person who is at best bankrupt from medical bills and worst literally going to die from not being able to afford health care. They figure that if the Democrat doesn't give a shit whether they live or die, why bother voting at all, or hell just vote for Trump because since I am screwed no matter who wins, at least this jerk will spite the establishment that doesn't care about me.

If Democrats lose this time around, they will lose because they chose a candidate who stands for nothing. If they win, they will win because they chose a candidate who will enact meaningful change.

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote republican no matter what. They say they agree with Democrats on certain issues but will never vote that way. I used to spilt ticket and vote for the candidate but when the GOP started down their path of constant obstruction and saying Trump could do no wrong I stopped doing so.

[Page]

Pretty much the opposite is true. The Republicans keep moving further and further toward the far right and in doing so, they bait the Democrats into moving to a new 'center' which is where the right used to be, and many Democrats take that bait and most Democrats who do lose, while real progressives win. A great example is Obamacare. The most unpopular part of Obamacare is the individual mandate, an idea originally conceived by the GOP in the 90's, and that aspect poisoned the whole bill, along with the fact that Obamacare was a half assed reform altogether. Hillary Clinton campaigned on 'Obamacare is great, everything is fine with health care' and she lost

You know why? Because that was a slap in the face of every person who is at best bankrupt from medical bills and worst literally going to die from not being able to afford health care. They figure that if the Democrat doesn't give a shit whether they live or die, why bother voting at all, or hell just vote for Trump because since I am screwed no matter who wins, at least this jerk will spite the establishment that doesn't care about me.

If Democrats lose this time around, they will lose because they chose a candidate who stands for nothing. If they win, they will win because they chose a candidate who will enact meaningful change.

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote republican no matter what. They say they agree with Democrats on certain issues but will never vote that way. I used to spilt ticket and vote for the candidate but when the GOP started down their path of constant obstruction and saying Trump could do no wrong I stopped doing so.

I have never voted for a Republican, though I have voted for a Libertarian once, since I actually met the candidate and liked what he had to say, but I am sure as hell done voting for Dems as a lesser evil. I might end up voting Green this time around, we shall see.

But yes, many Republicans have unconditional voters. In 2016, Dems were delusional about the fact that moderate Republicans would vote Dem because Trump is an asshole. I know that's not true because I know my own parents. They aren't rightwing extremists, they have no problem with gay people or Mexicans but they care a whole lot more about the fact that Trump promised them a tax cut than the fact that Trump is a bigot so they ended up voting for Trump. And they did get the tax cut but since they aren't millionaires, their tax cut is going to expire. But that won't happen before the 2020 elections so they will vote for Trump again out of their own perceived financial self interest.

[Tarsonis]

Pretty much the opposite is true. The Republicans keep moving further and further toward the far right and in doing so, they bait the Democrats into moving to a new 'center' which is where the right used to be, and many Democrats take that bait and most Democrats who do lose, while real progressives win. A great example is Obamacare. The most unpopular part of Obamacare is the individual mandate, an idea originally conceived by the GOP in the 90's, and that aspect poisoned the whole bill, along with the fact that Obamacare was a half assed reform altogether. Hillary Clinton campaigned on 'Obamacare is great, everything is fine with health care' and she lost

You know why? Because that was a slap in the face of every person who is at best bankrupt from medical bills and worst literally going to die from not being able to afford health care. They figure that if the Democrat doesn't give a shit whether they live or die, why bother voting at all, or hell just vote for Trump because since I am screwed no matter who wins, at least this jerk will spite the establishment that doesn't care about me.

If Democrats lose this time around, they will lose because they chose a candidate who stands for nothing. If they win, they will win because they chose a candidate who will enact meaningful change.

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote republican no matter what. They say they agree with Democrats on certain issues but will never vote that way. I used to spilt ticket and vote for the candidate but when the GOP started down their path of constant obstruction and saying Trump could do no wrong I stopped doing so.

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote democratic no mater what. They say they agree with Republicans on certain issues, but will never vote that way. I used to split ticket and vote for the candidate but when the Democrats started down their path of constant baiting, demonization and saying Obama could do no wrong, and anyone who disagrees is a racist, sexist, bigot, etc, I stopped doing so.

[Page]

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote republican no matter what. They say they agree with Democrats on certain issues but will never vote that way. I used to spilt ticket and vote for the candidate but when the GOP started down their path of constant obstruction and saying Trump could do no wrong I stopped doing so.

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote democratic no mater what. They say they agree with Republicans on certain issues, but will never vote that way. I used to split ticket and vote for the candidate but when the Democrats started down their path of constant baiting, demonization and saying Obama could do no wrong, and anyone who disagrees is a racist, sexist, bigot, etc, I stopped doing so.

The only thing I agree with the Republicans on are gun rights and (depending on the Republican) being against punitive taxes on tobacco products and that Russiagate is bullshit. And in the past, Republicans standing against US intervention in Libya but their reasons for doing so were more about 'fuck Obama' and it is not as if Republicans salivate for spilling blood abroad any less than Dems, but those issues are not worth nearly enough to me in comparison to health care, climate change, and the minimum wage that I would ever vote for a Republican.

[San Lumen]

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote republican no matter what. They say they agree with Democrats on certain issues but will never vote that way. I used to spilt ticket and vote for the candidate but when the GOP started down their path of constant obstruction and saying Trump could do no wrong I stopped doing so.

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote democratic no mater what. They say they agree with Republicans on certain issues, but will never vote that way. I used to split ticket and vote for the candidate but when the Democrats started down their path of constant baiting, demonization and saying Obama could do no wrong, and anyone who disagrees is a racist, sexist, bigot, etc, I stopped doing so.

You just wanted to reverse what I said. Try a actual argument. The entire party no longer shares my values. They dont think i should have any rights as a gay man.

[Gormwood]

Can someone come up with a winning strategy for the Democrats that isn't "Do exactly as the Republicans want"?

[Valrifell]

Can someone come up with a winning strategy for the Democrats that isn't "Do exactly as the Republicans want"?

Do exactly what I want?

[Ifreann]

Can someone come up with a winning strategy for the Democrats that isn't "Do exactly as the Republicans want"?

Rename the party to "Rebuplicans" and hope to get elected by people ticking the wrong box.

[Valrifell]

Can someone come up with a winning strategy for the Democrats that isn't "Do exactly as the Republicans want"?

Rename the party to "Rebuplicans" and hope to get elected by people ticking the wrong box.

That might work, actually, given ballot design is often confusing as hell in certain states anyway.

[San Lumen]

Rename the party to "Rebuplicans" and hope to get elected by people ticking the wrong box.

That might work, actually, given ballot design is often confusing as hell in certain states anyway.

I agree and that might deliberate

In my state of New York the ballot is arranged from largest jurisdiction to smallest

Parties are arranged from top to bottom in order of how many votes they received in the last gubernatorial election

[Valrifell]

That might work, actually, given ballot design is often confusing as hell in certain states anyway.

I agree and that might deliberate

In my state of New York the ballot is arranged from largest jurisdiction to smallest

Parties are arranged from top to bottom in order of how many votes they received in the last gubernatorial election

Arranging from size of jurisdiction seems fair, but having parties appear based on how many votes they got last cycle doesn't and seems engineered to help ensure the top vote-getters are always the top vote-getters, even if the difference would be minor.

[Thermodolia]

I'm not sure, but I feel as if Biden will win the primary - I hope in that case that he'll pick Buttigieg as his running mate.

By the way, none of these candidates are going to be a "McGovern v2.0" because Bernie, Biden, whatever, right now have broad support from people. It's not going to be "Blowout Bernie" or whatever. EDIT, I'd like to also add that Trump is widely unpopular for a President with a good economy and other results - disputable how much they are attributed to him - "generic Democrat" would give Trump a run for his money either way because of that.

Also, about news outlets favoring Biden - well - that's not surprising. Neither is Bernie losing in 2016, what is surprising is the whining over his loss and failure to understand he would have lost the primary either way and that "insurgent candidate" when you become a Democrat only once every four years is not going to get you favors, allies and friends in the party apparatus.

Id like to see a woman on the ticket for VP. Maybe Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Tammy Baldwin or maybe Stacey Abrams.

Abrams isn’t gonna be the VP

[Tarsonis]

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote democratic no mater what. They say they agree with Republicans on certain issues, but will never vote that way. I used to split ticket and vote for the candidate but when the Democrats started down their path of constant baiting, demonization and saying Obama could do no wrong, and anyone who disagrees is a racist, sexist, bigot, etc, I stopped doing so.

The only thing I agree with the Republicans on are gun rights and (depending on the Republican) being against punitive taxes on tobacco products and that Russiagate is bullshit. And in the past, Republicans standing against US intervention in Libya but their reasons for doing so were more about 'fuck Obama' and it is not as if Republicans salivate for spilling blood abroad any less than Dems, but those issues are not worth nearly enough to me in comparison to health care, climate change, and the minimum wage that I would ever vote for a Republican.

The point was, the Democrats are equally as insufferable as the Republicans are. People act like Trump just sprung out of a hole of the ground, and caused all this crap. Trump is a symptom of the problem, not a cause. These problems go back decades but have especially come to a head in the 21st century. I'm probably missing a lot, but to me the flashpoints were the 2004 and 2008 elections. The Democrats thought Kerry would beat Bush in a land slide. After all, Liberal Intellectual against a President commonly viewed as a hill billy moron. On top of the fact that Bush lost the popular vote in 2000, everything was teed up for a Democratic win. But on election day, Bush won quite handedly. Democrats needed a new way to win, so they turned to identity politics. Jump ahead to January 2008, Established Democrat Elite Hillary Clinton is maintaining a razor thin lead of pledge Democrats over new comer Senator Barack Obama. Clinton comes out of Super Tuesday just 20 delegates head of Obama. Super delegates up until this point have mostly backed Clinton, and at first Clinton's victory seems assured. But in the wake of Super Tuesday, things begin to shift. Exit polls from Super Tuesday showed an historic turnout of African American voters and overwhelming support by these voters for Obama. Experts accurately predict he'll sweep the next major primaries, because of the significant African American voter base in these states. Super delegates seeing the writing on the wall start jumping ship and pledging for Obama. Even former Clinton aide Bill Richardson, threw his primary weight behind Obama instead of Clinton, much to their chagrin.

By the time the dust of the convention had settled, Clinton had won the popular vote of the Democratic Primary, but Obama had narrow lead of pledged delegates. He won it all, because he carried 66% of the Super Delegates. From the moment the National Campaign begin, the DNC focused primarily on Obama's one marketable attribute: he's black. The campaign was shaped early on "Young Charismatic Black Man" vs "Another Old White Guy" McCain was terrible candidate, and made a boat load of mistakes sure, (Sarah Palin..really? Still racks my brain to this day.) but it didn't really matter. The campaign was noted as one of the most divisive campaigns to date. Going forward every opposition to Obama was characterized by race. Don't like his policies? That's just a cover for you being a racist. Didn't vote for him? That's cause you're a Racist. TEA Party? supercalifragilisticexpialiracist.

As the Democrats make the shift to courting identitarian politics, the progressives start taking hold. Suddenly established family values politicians start coming out in support of taking down DOMA. The Religious Right digs in its heals, and now the Republicans are the party of Racists and Homophobes, Democrats the party of the "enlightened tolerant left." Far left media like MSNBC and center left CNN carries the narrative, while FOX (which originally had started out as a center right platform, but in the wake of the Bush Administration became a hard right wing mouth piece) pivots the other way. Colmes leaves Hannity and Colmes, and our press devolves into narrative echo chambers, who care more about ratings than reporting factual information.

2012 Rolls around, and now our divided lines are even bolder. Fringe groups like birthers and secret muslim conspiracists gain traction and publicity through social media, the press takes their ideological sides, with only the vague pretense of being impartial. Occupy Wall street is a major campaign talking point. Mit Romney makes the mistake of acting like a rich person, and loses to the incumbent president. Do we make strides to reconcile after a second bitter campaign? Nope. 2013 Black Lives Matters is founded, though is yet unknown to the mainstream public. Occupy Democrats starts becoming a major opinion shaper on the left. Then in 2014 GammerGate, Michael Brown, take off. Feminist Frequency becomes a thing. Publications once considered biased and fringy, like Alex Jones, Slate, Jezebel, The Root, etc, start becoming major players as social media becomes more depended on than actual news. Twitter alone changes the game. The progressive movement has such a hold over national discourse and public culture that, people begin to even wonder it the Republicans will ever win another presidential election. But that pendulum is a bitch.

Donald Trump, A white rich man, who's only real allure is that he doesn't take peoples shit, surges to the front of the Republican Primary, and in a stunning upset defeats Hillary Clinton, who once again won the Popular vote, but lost the election. And the Left blows a gasket, they can't deal with it. They can't accept it. Calls for Trumps impeachment are being sounded before Hillary Clinton had even conceded the election. Nobody stops to ask why Trump won with any real sense of inquiry. Does the progressive left introspect? Some for half a second.
But that vast majority do not. Instead we get phantom arguments. Russian boogiemen who are behind everything from Trump winning to George Takai getting flack, to the Ghostbusters reboot failing. If it's not that it's because America is sexist and racist. If it's not that, it's because Bernie Bros didn't show up to the polls. Nobody stops to ask about the wheel, they just keep turning it.

Since the election the Democrats who once cried foul over Republican "Obstruction" made it a 2018 campaign point obstruct Trump's legislative agenda. Lumen is a perfect example, saying they won't vote for any republican any more because of their obstructionism, while embracing the Democrat's Obstructionism whole heartedly. Democrats evoked the nuclear option, but then cry when the Republicans do it. Democrats weaponized sexual assault accusations to try and derail SCOTUS nominations. Republicans gambled and won, blocking Obama's SCOTUS nomination. We don't have governance anymore, we have a WWE.

TL:DR, our Republic is a dumpster fire right now, and I blame the Democrats more than the Republicans.

[Thermodolia]

I'm just glad Harris and Booker aren't doing as well as I feared they might.

Same

[Tarsonis]

The other problem i see is there are many people who will vote democratic no mater what. They say they agree with Republicans on certain issues, but will never vote that way. I used to split ticket and vote for the candidate but when the Democrats started down their path of constant baiting, demonization and saying Obama could do no wrong, and anyone who disagrees is a racist, sexist, bigot, etc, I stopped doing so.

You just wanted to reverse what I said. Try a actual argument. The entire party no longer shares my values. They dont think i should have any rights as a gay man.

No, I wanted to prove a point. The fact that it went over your head, isn't really my problem. Also, you don't have much ground to play the "try an actual argument" card. Beyond Ad Hominems and hyperbole, you don't have any.

[San Lumen]

You just wanted to reverse what I said. Try a actual argument. The entire party no longer shares my values. They dont think i should have any rights as a gay man.

No, I wanted to prove a point. The fact that it went over your head, isn't really my problem. Also, you don't have much ground to play the "try an actual argument" card. Beyond Ad Hominems and hyperbole, you don't have any.

You proved nothing. You also said previously your voting Republican because it will make your wallet fatter. Thats just pure selfishness.

Republicans are opposed to anything I value, women's rights, LGBT rights, voting rights, oversight, the environment so why should i give any of them my vote?

[Tarsonis]

No, I wanted to prove a point. The fact that it went over your head, isn't really my problem. Also, you don't have much ground to play the "try an actual argument" card. Beyond Ad Hominems and hyperbole, you don't have any.

You proved nothing.

It would certainly seem that way since the point clearly went over your head.

You also said previously your voting Republican because it will make your wallet fatter. Thats just pure selfishness.

Republicans are opposed to anything I value, women's rights, LGBT rights, voting rights, oversight, the environment so why should i give any of them my vote?

Underlined: Ad Hominem.
Italicized: Hyperbole.


Well if I didn't prove my point, you certainly have.

[San Lumen]

You proved nothing. You also said previously your voting Republican because it will make your wallet fatter. Thats just pure selfishness.

Republicans are opposed to anything I value, women's rights, LGBT rights, voting rights, oversight, the environment so why should i give any of them my vote?

Underlined: Ad Hominem.
Italicized: Hyperbole.


Well if I didn't prove my point, you certainly have.

Its not Ad Hominem you literally said it. You think Democrats are only out to take your money and are only interested in making your wallet fatter and the heck with everyone else.

How is what i said hyperbole?

[North German Realm]

No, I wanted to prove a point. The fact that it went over your head, isn't really my problem. Also, you don't have much ground to play the "try an actual argument" card. Beyond Ad Hominems and hyperbole, you don't have any.

You proved nothing. You also said previously your voting Republican because it will make your wallet fatter. Thats just pure selfishness.

Republicans are opposed to anything I value, women's rights, LGBT rights, voting rights, oversight, the environment so why should i give any of them my vote?

It's less that "Republicans are opposed" (Though Most of them do oppose all above), but more that the Platform of the average Republican-endorsed or Republican-aligned candidate (Presidential or otherwise) is opposed to the aforementioned. It's less a hyperbole and more a really-proven fact at this point.

[Telconi]

Underlined: Ad Hominem.
Italicized: Hyperbole.


Well if I didn't prove my point, you certainly have.

Its not Ad Hominem you literally said it. You think Democrats are only out to take your money and are only interested in making your wallet fatter and the heck with everyone else.

How is what i said hyperbole?

Are we not supposed to vote for our interests now?

[Tarsonis]

Underlined: Ad Hominem.
Italicized: Hyperbole.


Well if I didn't prove my point, you certainly have.

Its not Ad Hominem you literally said it.

Show me. Show me right now where I said those words. Quote the post.

You think Democrats are only out to take your money and are only interested in making your wallet fatter and the heck with everyone else.

Again, show me where I said those words. Quote the post.

I'll save you time. You won't find them, because I never did. That's why its an ad hominem, because it's 1. a personal attack instead of an argument. 2. it also happens to be a false characterization of my position that gives you something to tilt at rather than actually engage with my positions. So it's both a straw man, and an Adhomiemn. It's and ad straw hominem. Well done.

How is what i said hyperbole?

Because it's false and exaggerated. You know. the very definition of hyperbole.