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2020 US Presidential Election Megathread I- It Begins

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Out of the candidates who are in/have exploratory committees, who would you support?

President Donald Trump
14
30%
Sen. Elizabeth Warren
8
17%
Former HUD Secretary Julian Castro
2
4%
Soon-to-be Former Congressman John Delaney
1
2%
WV State Sen. Richard Ojeda
3
6%
Sen. Kamala Harris
17
36%
Sen. Kristen Gillibrand
1
2%
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard
1
2%
 
Total votes : 47

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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
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Postby Major-Tom » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:25 pm

Ism wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
I could see her potentially appealing to a niche group of voters and making it to New Hampshire, before running out of funds and essentially being forced to dropout. Middle America, Establishment Dems & Suburban Dems wouldn't go for her, for better or worse.


I thought she was supposed to appeal to Middle America?


Perhaps some of her populistic credentials could bolster her in that regard, but the public perception and image she has crafted and would continue to craft during the primaries, would, in my humble opinion, simply not resonate with swing voters and former Trump voters in Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin etc etc.
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:29 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Ism wrote:
I thought she was supposed to appeal to Middle America?


Perhaps some of her populistic credentials could bolster her in that regard, but the public perception and image she has crafted and would continue to craft during the primaries, would, in my humble opinion, simply not resonate with swing voters and former Trump voters in Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin etc etc.


I also think she will likely shift to a more cookie cutter Democrat platform.
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Eternal Lotharia
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Postby Eternal Lotharia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:33 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Well, in all honesty, I do see her as the closest thing we have to a Nazi in federal office.
And opportunism, granted, I'll give you that to an extent, but I feel like she's flip-flopped too hard and I'm skeptical that she actually believes her more liberal views. In India there's a bitter debate if Modi is dangerous, or possibly a dictator. I'm admittedly mixed but left it in there as a possibility for fairness reasons and caution.

And, while I do agree foreign policy disagreements should be encouraged, I still think the Assad thing fully disqualifies her for the Democrats. I just think she's not caring about human rights, and so I cannot help but see her as dangerous to our ideals.

And I cannot support a flip-flopper who supports a brutal genocidal dictator and has many views that are more republican, to an extent that some of the far-right like her.

I don't mind that they like her, but it's why they do that I have an issue with her, as well as the many other things. If some of the worst of the far-right like you, and many racists, for reasons that are similar to yours, I believe you should reconsider your beliefs and see if you truly are a Democrat. DINO's don't exist mostly, but I do see politicians who are dangerous to the party, mostly when it comes to human rights.


The Anti-Semitism and Assad things are to me a dealbreaker and to me disqualifies her from being a Democrat, not due to ideological differences, but due to concern about discrimination, prejudice, support or neglect of pursuing those who persecute those groups, and lack of human rights concerns.



I'm also part-jewish. Tulsi Gabbard is very worrying.



Listen, this Gabbard argument that has flooded this particular topic has become redundant, the epitome of a dead horse getting it's shit kicked in. That said - my objection was really with the adjectives you had chosen to use. I myself really don't think I can convince you that some of your grievances are perhaps overstated and heavy-handed, and I generally enjoy your posts, so Imma just leave this one be.


Ah I see, that's fair. Thank you for civility. :)
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Eternal Lotharia
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Postby Eternal Lotharia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:34 pm

I find it ironic and glorious that Ojeda is more popular than Castro, and Delaney.


At least from our political community here.
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Dahon wrote:
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:35 pm

United States of Natan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:So? I’m fine if people don’t personally agree with things but believe that the government shouldn’t interfere. I’m that way with abortion.


No she hasn’t been. She’s only been pro-gay since the mid 2010s.


You aren’t in the center dude.


She makes racist jokes about people and she only changed to pro gay because it was politically expedient to do so.


Ya this Jew isn’t seeing. Maybe you could support your bullshit claim?


She’s not a right wing extremist masquerading as a leftist. She’s just not a super liberal SJW.

Keep your head in the sand all you want. It still won't make you right.

:roll:

And as a Jew, I know antisemitism when I see it. Tulsi has it in spades.

Then show your evidence. If you have no evidence then you are either a liar or you foolishly believed someone else.

And I know I'm not in the center. But I also know that I'm not far left. I'm more in between the two; in other words, a Progressive.

A progressive isn’t in between the far left and the center
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Horatius Cocles
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Founded: Jan 03, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Horatius Cocles » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 pm

In order of whom I'd vote for:

1. Sanders
2. Warren
3. Brown/Gabbard

1 and 2 can sometimes flip flop. On the whole, I define myself best as a Social Democrat. I want a progressive candidate to win, so I'm not that excited by Biden & co. The right will rip into a progressive candidate, that's a given.
Last edited by Horatius Cocles on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:58 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:I find it ironic and glorious that Ojeda is more popular than Castro, and Delaney.


At least from our political community here.


Our political community is super niche and involved/informed, the layman still has no idea that Ojeda even exists.
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:59 pm

Judging by the Democrat offerings it's looking like Ojeda is the only one I could see getting behind, while Gabbard has done pluses. I think she won't survive any primary as she is now.
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PRO:
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:04 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:I find it ironic and glorious that Ojeda is more popular than Castro, and Delaney.


At least from our political community here.


Our political community is super niche and involved/informed, the layman still has no idea that Ojeda even exists.

He’s already held a good few rallies. So he’s trying to change that.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:04 pm

Valrifell wrote:If the actual elections are anything like this thread then the primaries will be so damaging we'd be fucked regardless of who we picked.

"Yer candidate would only win in NY and CA" is as thoughtful and conversation-motivating as "your candidate's a fucking bigot" (weird that everyone loves that point regardless)

That is to say, not at all.


I've been saying this for a while now. Tbh I think the next year or two are gonna be as bad, if not worse, for the Dems than 2015/16 was for the GOP.
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Western Vale Confederacy
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:05 pm

That's a lotta votes for Trump, not going to lie...

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:05 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Valrifell wrote:If the actual elections are anything like this thread then the primaries will be so damaging we'd be fucked regardless of who we picked.

"Yer candidate would only win in NY and CA" is as thoughtful and conversation-motivating as "your candidate's a fucking bigot" (weird that everyone loves that point regardless)

That is to say, not at all.


I've been saying this for a while now. Tbh I think the next year or two are gonna be as bad, if not worse, for the Dems than 2015/16 was for the GOP.


I appreciate the optimism, but I think taking all branches of government is out of reach for now.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:06 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:That's a lotta votes for Trump, not going to lie...


It looks larger than it actually is because the Democratic option is split four other ways. The more candidates that jump in, the worse it will look, but keep in mind that 61% of posters don't want the Donald.
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Western Vale Confederacy
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:09 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:That's a lotta votes for Trump, not going to lie...


It looks larger than it actually is because the Democratic option is split four other ways. The more candidates that jump in, the worse it will look, but keep in mind that 61% of posters don't want the Donald.


And that's on a forum with a substantial lean towards the left (and to an extent Democrats) though.

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:11 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
It looks larger than it actually is because the Democratic option is split four other ways. The more candidates that jump in, the worse it will look, but keep in mind that 61% of posters don't want the Donald.


And that's on a forum with a substantial lean towards the left (and to an extent Democrats) though.


But also in an Internet climate which has popularized right-leaning creators and rhetoric since 2016. Ever since the alt-right blurred the line between meme and propaganda, essentially. NSG's lean has diminished since I've been here, I can tell you that much.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:13 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Perhaps some of her populistic credentials could bolster her in that regard, but the public perception and image she has crafted and would continue to craft during the primaries, would, in my humble opinion, simply not resonate with swing voters and former Trump voters in Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin etc etc.


I also think she will likely shift to a more cookie cutter Democrat platform.


Perhaps on some issues, but that's not something I could really hypothesize on this early tbh.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:

Listen, this Gabbard argument that has flooded this particular topic has become redundant, the epitome of a dead horse getting it's shit kicked in. That said - my objection was really with the adjectives you had chosen to use. I myself really don't think I can convince you that some of your grievances are perhaps overstated and heavy-handed, and I generally enjoy your posts, so Imma just leave this one be.


Ah I see, that's fair. Thank you for civility. :)


Of course, man.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:17 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
And that's on a forum with a substantial lean towards the left (and to an extent Democrats) though.


But also in an Internet climate which has popularized right-leaning creators and rhetoric since 2016. Ever since the alt-right blurred the line between meme and propaganda, essentially. NSG's lean has diminished since I've been here, I can tell you that much.

I believe there are fewer far-lefties than there were 1 and 2/5th years ago. It's been switching to a more right-leaning environment. Although, at this point, is centrist.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:17 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I also think she will likely shift to a more cookie cutter Democrat platform.


Perhaps on some issues, but that's not something I could really hypothesize on this early tbh.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Ah I see, that's fair. Thank you for civility. :)


Of course, man.

Honestly after Trump I’m not going to say who is and isn’t going to win the nomination until around March of next year
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:21 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I also think she will likely shift to a more cookie cutter Democrat platform.


Perhaps on some issues, but that's not something I could really hypothesize on this early tbh.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Ah I see, that's fair. Thank you for civility. :)


Of course, man.


My take on Gabbard is based on previous actions, she seems to have fewer hard and fast positions and more "do what gets you votes"
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-LGBTQ Rights
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-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
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-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
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-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
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-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:37 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
It looks larger than it actually is because the Democratic option is split four other ways. The more candidates that jump in, the worse it will look, but keep in mind that 61% of posters don't want the Donald.


And that's on a forum with a substantial lean towards the left (and to an extent Democrats) though.


I wouldn't worry, outside of NSG Trump hasn't had any amount of time in the positives for popularity.

Can't imagine the shutdown is helping things for him.
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Novus Wrepland
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Postby Novus Wrepland » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pm

Reminder that Gabbard is a member of a fucking cult.

https://www.meanwhileinhawaii.org
https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/03/krishna-cult-rumors-still-dog-tulsi-gabbard/
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/what-does-tulsi-gabbard-believe/amp
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/20879/Tulsi-Gabbard-Hires-Russian-Agent-to-Keep-Hawaii-Media-in-Check.aspx

written by her own aunt:

As Representative Tulsi Gabbard’s aunt, it gives me no pleasure to publicly air my doubts regarding my niece’s political agenda, which Kelefa Sanneh describes in his Profile (“Against the Tide,” November 6th). However, I take my role as a citizen seriously, and I would be remiss not to share my concerns. Sanneh raises the issue of Gabbard’s lifelong immersion in the Science of Identity Foundation, an opaque religious organization that she and its founder, Chris Butler, have attempted to reframe as a “resource.” Gabbard’s answer to a basic question about Butler is troubling: despite calling him her “guru dev” (spiritual master) in her own promotional video, she denies that he is more important than any of her other teachers. She also has a notably mixed voting record, and associations that veer from certain progressive causes to the apparent courting of such strongmen as Narendra Modi, Bashar al-Assad, and Abdel Fattah el-Sisi (not to mention Trump)—this zigzagging path through positions is vexing. Sanneh’s article walks the fine line of investigation and exposition in a way that points to shadows worthy of further illumination.


She is by far the most despicable if not corrupt Democrat I can think of and people love her because she’s anti-establishment. What a depressing situation.
Last edited by Novus Wrepland on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Novus Wrepland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus Wrepland » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:14 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Perhaps on some issues, but that's not something I could really hypothesize on this early tbh.



Of course, man.


My take on Gabbard is based on previous actions, she seems to have fewer hard and fast positions and more "do what gets you votes"

She IS a snake.

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South Odreria
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby South Odreria » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:I find it ironic and glorious that Ojeda is more popular than Castro, and Delaney.


At least from our political community here.


Our political community is super niche and involved/informed, the layman still has no idea that Ojeda even exists.


The layman has no idea that Delaney and to a lesser extent Castro exists. Also, Delaney is a megabum and Castro is an average "rising-star" bum.
Ojeda is a non-bum, which is probably why he has more votes.
Last edited by South Odreria on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hediacrana
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Hediacrana » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:55 pm

The chances of Gabbard becoming the actual Democratic nominee for 2020 are basically nil, so I honestly don't see the reason for all the heated discussion of the last few pages. I believe the Democrats, after the 2016 debacle, are obsessed with "electability," which is to say that they will want to go with a candidate that they believe most Americans will vote for - basically, a charismatic white male who is not too old. That's a big part of the explanation of Betomania.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:06 pm

Hediacrana wrote:The chances of Gabbard becoming the actual Democratic nominee for 2020 are basically nil, so I honestly don't see the reason for all the heated discussion of the last few pages. I believe the Democrats, after the 2016 debacle, are obsessed with "electability," which is to say that they will want to go with a candidate that they believe most Americans will vote for - basically, a charismatic white male who is not too old. That's a big part of the explanation of Betomania.

Just having Gabbard, a so-called "progressive," in any part won't bode well. Electability can also be made to explain Sherrod Brown - an Ohio senator with a true progressive line and a history of winning elections in a tough state.
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