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US Government Shutdown- It's Over!... For Now

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:32 pm
by Republicanana
The US government has had a partial shutdown since last Saturday. The main issue is over border security. President Trump wants to get around $5 billion for his wall, while the Democrats have proposed $1.6 billion for overall border security, not the wall. Even though it seems to be moving to $0 at this point. As of now, both sides won't back down, and any border security money would be hard to get through Senate Democrats, especially the progressives and potential 2020 candidates. On, January 3, Democrats take over the House and who knows what their CR or Budget will be.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... wn-n952071

Also, DOJ is seeking an indefinite delay in filing deadlines in President Trump's emoluments lawsuit.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... wn-n952071

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:35 pm
by Unithonia
This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:36 pm
by Toaslandia
Trump's wall wouldn't work too well. Most illegal immigrants come in on planes. But the senate should just have about $2.5 billion dollars for border security, with our soldiers down by the border I think we have it covered.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:41 pm
by Vassenor
Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.


Reminder that there was a bipartisan spending bill that passed both houses and Trump vetoed it.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:44 pm
by The New California Republic
Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about

The US-Mexican border makes up a relatively small part of the total border that needs to be policed, so saying that the Democrats don't think that border security is an issue is completely spurious. It's like saying that someone who doesn't like pepperoni pizza doesn't like pizza at all.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:45 pm
by Republicanana
Vassenor wrote:
Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.


Reminder that there was a bipartisan spending bill that passed both houses and Trump vetoed it.



1. Yes, there was a bill that passed both houses, but it was never sent to the President's desk, as both chambers kept amending the bill so that the other chamber would have to keep up the bill again.
2. Since that happened the President never got the bill, so he could not veto it.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:46 pm
by Vassenor
Republicanana wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Reminder that there was a bipartisan spending bill that passed both houses and Trump vetoed it.



1. Yes, there was a bill that passed both houses, but it was never sent to the President's desk, as both chambers kept amending the bill so that the other chamber would have to keep up the bill again.
2. Since that happened the President never got the bill, so he could not veto it.


It never went to his desk because he said he would veto anything which didn't pander to him. Not because of the chambers doing amendments.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:46 pm
by Toaslandia
Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.

Cause the president's an idiot. He wants to spend billions of dollars on a wall that won't work and increased border security, even though our border with Mexico is one of the most policed in the world.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:48 pm
by Neutraligon
Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:49 pm
by Vassenor
Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?


I mean we already have the data to suggest that it wouldn't stop the things it's supposed to stop as those already happen through legal ports of entry.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:50 pm
by Republicanana
Vassenor wrote:
Republicanana wrote:

1. Yes, there was a bill that passed both houses, but it was never sent to the President's desk, as both chambers kept amending the bill so that the other chamber would have to keep up the bill again.
2. Since that happened the President never got the bill, so he could not veto it.


It never went to his desk because he said he would veto anything which didn't pander to him. Not because of the chambers doing amendments.


The chambers doing amendments made the bill go through the chambers back-and-forth as there were multiple times the House and Senate modified the budget. That is why President Trump never could officially veto the bill.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:51 pm
by The New California Republic
Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017 ... effective/

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:52 pm
by Vassenor
Republicanana wrote:


The chambers doing amendments made the bill go through the chambers back-and-forth as there were multiple times the House and Senate modified the budget. That is why President Trump never could officially veto the bill.


So because he hasn't officially vetoed it we're not allowed to talk about how he's said it will unless it panders to him completely?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:54 pm
by Page
Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?


There is already a vast network of tunnels, and I heard there is this futuristic invention called the ladder.

Even if Trump got a wall of metal spikes like he wants, then he runs into the problem that the entire border is not flat terrain, so a wall from end to end is a geographic impossibility. That is, unless he wants to build the wall further inland, thus ceding American land to Mexico.

We don't need a study to see what a stupid waste of time and money this would be.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:55 pm
by Republicanana
Vassenor wrote:
Republicanana wrote:
The chambers doing amendments made the bill go through the chambers back-and-forth as there were multiple times the House and Senate modified the budget. That is why President Trump never could officially veto the bill.


So because he hasn't officially vetoed it we're not allowed to talk about how he's said it will unless it panders to him completely?


Yes, you are allowed to talk about that. Your first message stated that Trump did veto the bill, not that he would. Although I disagree that wanting an additional $5 billion to a discretionary spending budget of $1.305 trillion would be called wanting complete pandering.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:56 pm
by Vassenor
Republicanana wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So because he hasn't officially vetoed it we're not allowed to talk about how he's said it will unless it panders to him completely?


Yes, you are allowed to talk about that. Your first message stated that Trump did veto the bill, not that he would. Although I disagree that wanting an additional $5 billion to a discretionary spending budget of $1.305 trillion would be called wanting complete pandering.


He wants his white elephant funded completely and will veto anything that does not do so. I call that demanding to be pandered to.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:56 pm
by Saxe Au Leind
Page wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?


There is already a vast network of tunnels, and I heard there is this futuristic invention called the ladder.

Even if Trump got a wall of metal spikes like he wants, then he runs into the problem that the entire border is not flat terrain, so a wall from end to end is a geographic impossibility. That is, unless he wants to build the wall further inland, thus ceding American land to Mexico.

We don't need a study to see what a stupid waste of time and money this would be.

It would be cheaper to only take in highly skilled Immigrants of the right ethnicity instead of building a wall.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:57 pm
by Shofercia
Toaslandia wrote:Trump's wall wouldn't work too well. Most illegal immigrants come in on planes. But the senate should just have about $2.5 billion dollars for border security, with our soldiers down by the border I think we have it covered.


[Citation needed]


The New California Republic wrote:
Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about

The US-Mexican border makes up a relatively small part of the total border that needs to be policed, so saying that the Democrats don't think that border security is an issue is completely spurious. It's like saying that someone who doesn't like pepperoni pizza doesn't like pizza at all.


The other borders include the US border with Canada, the Atlantic Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, with the World's largest navy patrolling them, and there's also the Arctic Ocean, but Polar Bears have yet to manifest a major threat.


Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?


Are you expecting Congress to do effective studies? Love your optimism. Congress has commissioned a study on quails having sex while high on cocaine, and another on the effect of leaf blowers on lizards. They don't have time for this border wall stuff! (I recommend reading Rand Paul's Twitter Festivus, whole damn thing's hilarious)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:57 pm
by Vassenor
Saxe Au Leind wrote:
Page wrote:
There is already a vast network of tunnels, and I heard there is this futuristic invention called the ladder.

Even if Trump got a wall of metal spikes like he wants, then he runs into the problem that the entire border is not flat terrain, so a wall from end to end is a geographic impossibility. That is, unless he wants to build the wall further inland, thus ceding American land to Mexico.

We don't need a study to see what a stupid waste of time and money this would be.

It would be cheaper to only take in highly skilled Immigrants of the right ethnicity instead of building a wall.


Or we could just not be generally racist.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:58 pm
by The New California Republic
Shofercia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:The US-Mexican border makes up a relatively small part of the total border that needs to be policed, so saying that the Democrats don't think that border security is an issue is completely spurious. It's like saying that someone who doesn't like pepperoni pizza doesn't like pizza at all.


The other borders include the US border with Canada, the Atlantic Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, with the World's largest navy patrolling them, and there's also the Arctic Ocean, but Polar Bears have yet to manifest a major threat.)

You forgot the air border.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:00 pm
by Shofercia
Vassenor wrote:
Saxe Au Leind wrote:It would be cheaper to only take in highly skilled Immigrants of the right ethnicity instead of building a wall.


Or we could just not be generally racist.


I'm all for taking high skilled and educated immigrants, irrespective of ethnicity, gender, and other stuff; I'm just not sure why there's a need to take in low skilled, uneducated, immigrants, in times of economic automation, unless the Democrats are just hoping for their eventual votes decades down the line. Or at least the votes of their kids.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:01 pm
by San Lumen
This can be discussed in the MAGA thread. it doenst need its own

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:02 pm
by Shofercia
The New California Republic wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
The other borders include the US border with Canada, the Atlantic Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, with the World's largest navy patrolling them, and there's also the Arctic Ocean, but Polar Bears have yet to manifest a major threat.)

You forgot the air border.


Image


The US also has the largest air force and air defense force, and I've yet to see illegal immigrants catapulting themselves into the United States, although any that survive should get automatic citizenship :P

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:02 pm
by Republicanana
Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?


Are you expecting Congress to do effective studies? Love your optimism. Congress has commissioned a study on quails having sex while high on cocaine, and another on the effect of leaf blowers on lizards. They don't have time for this border wall stuff! (I recommend reading Rand Paul's Twitter Festivus, whole damn thing's hilarious)[/quote]

I also recommend reading Rand Paul's Twitter thread from when he shut down the government for a few hours, and the tweet where he cites border help for other countries, President Trump should jump all over that.
https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/976909053870911488

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:06 pm
by The New California Republic
Shofercia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:You forgot the air border.
The US also has the largest air force and air defense force, and I've yet to see illegal immigrants catapulting themselves into the United States, although any that survive should get automatic citizenship :P

To my knowledge most of the people travelling to the U.S. arrive by air, so my point still stands that the border with Mexico makes up a fraction of the total border.