US Government Shutdown- It's Over!... For Now

[Jebslund]

Working for the government is welfare? How heartless are you?

The coast guard and the secret service do important jobs and neither are getting paid right now

IIRC one public employee costs in average 120k to the taxpayer, so yeahhh it is

I mean, it's not like public employees do any work, after all...

[Cedoria]

But what I’m saying is that the only walls that have worked well at keeping people out have military like patrols, more than one wall, an area in between said walls for guard posts, and roads. Basically you’d need to design a wall that would effectively make it hard to get in and out.

I doubt there is a whole lot of Americans trying to enter Mexico illegally.

Not the point. If the wall somehow does actually get built in a way that restricts movement flow across the border (unlikely, but let's humour this stupidity for a moment and assume it can happen), that still restricts Americans who go across or rely on the border in some way as much as it does other.


What does that do for millions of businesses who ship across to Mexico, of which there is an absolute fuckton? What does it do for costs when they now have to use more expensive means of shipping? What does it mean for millions of farmers who need to use the rivers for irrigation that this stupidity has cut them off from accessing, the billions you'll need to pay out by law for compulsory acquisition of metric fucktons of private property on the border. Have you, the President or anyone of the supporters of this stupid nonsense thought through any of this?

Oh wait, don't answer that last question. Clearly the answer is no.

[Cedoria]

Working for the government is welfare? How heartless are you?

The coast guard and the secret service do important jobs and neither are getting paid right now

IIRC one public employee costs in average 120k to the taxpayer, so yeahhh it is

I'd like to see you try and do any of the many things Americans rely on said public employees to do for them before you try and make this claim. Trust me, you'd be back here whining about it before you can say 'small government!'

Most Americans have no idea how much they rely on their government every day, despite the conceit, it's a lot more then they think.

[Cedoria]

I don't want the wall. I want a border fence, electrified, reinforced by the US military. But at the same time, I don't want a citizen initiative to fail over technicalities.

The Bush border fence failed because of landowners fighting eminent domain in court driving up the costs for the fence and in some cases winning.

But obviously that won't happen here with a shit-ton of more landowners affected because POTUS said so and is a business genius right?

[Ifreann]

Cops the same thing. They get a free car and other benefits. How dare my tax money go to their equipment!

But the police are a sworn brotherhood of justice, law and order, and righteousness

I don’t mind supporting them

The police are not a sworn brotherhood of anything.

[Cedoria]

So let me get this straight. The government can't afford a standard pay rise for federal workers, but can afford a five billion dollar boondoggle?

Be a lot more then that by the time it actually comes to build it, five billion is just for the initial foundation, and doesn't account for costs of drawing up plans, compulsory acquisition compensation, or security systems or literally anything else. It's an arsepull figure which is much smaller then the estimated cost of even a bare minimum wall.

[San Lumen]

can we get it to day 30 pls

I wish my state government would shut down...

Yeah why have government at all? Things were so great in Somalia where there was no government for almost 20 years.

[San Lumen]

Working for the government is welfare? How heartless are you?

The coast guard and the secret service do important jobs and neither are getting paid right now

It is when a large number of federal employees are nonessential.

Yeah all those non essential people dont do important jobs. Lets just fire them all.

[Jebslund]

This is not a new debate, Romans openly discussed this when Rome transitioned from citizen soldiers to professional soldiers. Who exactly do you think is being targeted with the free college, job experience, and loan security provided by the military; the rich? During the last war recruiters openly accepted gangbanger and even scouted people directly out of prison. Hmm... Money from the government, funnelled directly to the poor, not welfare. Very interesting, please continue.

Because paying people to work for you is *totally* welfare...

Police are the absolute filth beneath my feet, as by law and Supreme Court ruling it is not the responsibility of the police to protect you- me- or anyone.^{[citation needed]} They can quite literally guide the penis of the rapist into you so-long-as they arrest the man afterwards.^{[citation needed]} They are not just welfare sponges which suck up taxes, they are also given the force and authority to rob people when it's not enough.^{[citation needed]} If a policeman ever helps you, or dies for you, you better thank them... Because it's not their job to do so.^{[citation needed]}

Quite the load of tripe you just dumped into the thread. Leaving aside laws/constitutional provisions regarding due process, there are laws and rules in place which require police to stop (or at least attempt to stop) any crimes in progress they witness and can reasonably stop/attempt to stop.

There's also the fact that, if the cop in your rape example were to do that, the arrest would constitute entrapment.

[Telconi]

I wish my state government would shut down...

Yeah why have government at all? Things were so great in Somalia where there was no government for almost 20 years.

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

[Telconi]

It is when a large number of federal employees are nonessential.

Yeah all those non essential people dont do important jobs. Lets just fire them all.

I think that's the point...

[Cedoria]

Yeah why have government at all? Things were so great in Somalia where there was no government for almost 20 years.

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

Perhaps a nicer one could be constructed if you did us the honour of saying which government workers are such a drain that them not getting paid is of benefit to the population.

I mean, I'm sure you thought about such a prima facie ludicrous proposition before you clicked the 'post' button and wrote it... Surely...

[Jebslund]

Yeah why have government at all? Things were so great in Somalia where there was no government for almost 20 years.

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

Yeah, because absolutely no one ever is only a decent person because they're forced to be... And we all know the Free Market^TM will make sure everything is good and fair, because there certainly was never a point in time where people were getting cheated, killed, and stolen from left, right, and center due to no one keeping law and order. I mean, anarchy ALWAYS has good results, right?

[Telconi]

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

Perhaps a nicer one could be constructed if you did us the honour of saying which government workers are such a drain that them not getting paid is of benefit to the population.

I mean, I'm sure you thought about such a prima facie ludicrous proposition before you clicked the 'post' button and wrote it... Surely...

I didn't post this position, so...

[San Lumen]

Yeah why have government at all? Things were so great in Somalia where there was no government for almost 20 years.

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

Well you are advocating for a shutdown of your state government.

Yeah all those non essential people dont do important jobs. Lets just fire them all.

I think that's the point...

Yeah all those people furloughed or not getting paid dont do important things right? Who needs Park Rangers to protect and clean our national parks?

The Coast Guard doesn't deserve to get paid right?

[Telconi]

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

Yeah, because absolutely no one ever is only a decent person because they're forced to be... And we all know the Free Market^TM will make sure everything is good and fair, because there certainly was never a point in time where people were getting cheated, killed, and stolen from left, right, and center due to no one keeping law and order. I mean, anarchy ALWAYS has good results, right?

That strawman is equally ugly.

[Cedoria]

Perhaps a nicer one could be constructed if you did us the honour of saying which government workers are such a drain that them not getting paid is of benefit to the population.

I mean, I'm sure you thought about such a prima facie ludicrous proposition before you clicked the 'post' button and wrote it... Surely...

I didn't post this position, so...

You defended the stupidity of stating that government workers working without pay is a good idea, so yes, you do, even if you didn't use those precise words.

[San Lumen]

Yeah, because absolutely no one ever is only a decent person because they're forced to be... And we all know the Free Market^TM will make sure everything is good and fair, because there certainly was never a point in time where people were getting cheated, killed, and stolen from left, right, and center due to no one keeping law and order. I mean, anarchy ALWAYS has good results, right?

That strawman is equally ugly.

You are the one who said you wanted a shutdown of your state government.

[Telconi]

Quite the question. Also, that's an ugly straw man, if you're going to build one, at least take some pride in your craftsmanship.

Well you are advocating for a shutdown of your state government.

I think that's the point...

Yeah all those people furloughed or not getting paid dont do important things right? Who needs Park Rangers to protect and clean our national parks?

The Coast Guard doesn't deserve to get paid right?

Yes, I am aware of that, thanks for reminding me.

[Cedoria]

Yeah, because absolutely no one ever is only a decent person because they're forced to be... And we all know the Free Market^TM will make sure everything is good and fair, because there certainly was never a point in time where people were getting cheated, killed, and stolen from left, right, and center due to no one keeping law and order. I mean, anarchy ALWAYS has good results, right?

That strawman is equally ugly.

Saying the Free Market is not a panacea is not a strawman, it's truth,

[Telconi]

I didn't post this position, so...

You defended the stupidity of stating that government workers working without pay is a good idea, so yes, you do, even if you didn't use those precise words.

Got some sauce on that?

[Telconi]

That strawman is equally ugly.

Saying the Free Market is not a panacea is not a strawman, it's truth,

Arguing that a free market is not a panacea when I have never claimed it is, is in fact a strawman.

[San Lumen]

Well you are advocating for a shutdown of your state government.

Yeah all those people furloughed or not getting paid dont do important things right? Who needs Park Rangers to protect and clean our national parks?

The Coast Guard doesn't deserve to get paid right?

Yes, I am aware of that, thanks for reminding me.

And none of those people in Sacramento are needed or influence your life in any way? Those people at the agricultural department do absolutely nothing?

You called for a shutdown and clearly seem to support this one so obviously you think government workers are a drain on everyone

[Cedoria]

Well you are advocating for a shutdown of your state government.

Yeah all those people furloughed or not getting paid dont do important things right? Who needs Park Rangers to protect and clean our national parks?

The Coast Guard doesn't deserve to get paid right?

Yes, I am aware of that, thanks for reminding me.

Then maybe you'd be better off with a read-through of the consequences of what you already know. Actually, I'd like to see how many of this small-government types would last a week without most of the services they don't even know the state provides for them.

[Cedoria]

You defended the stupidity of stating that government workers working without pay is a good idea, so yes, you do, even if you didn't use those precise words.

Got some sauce on that?

Look at your above posts. The sauce is already on the hamburgers my chap.