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US Government Shutdown- It's Over!... For Now

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Will the government shutdown in three weeks?

Yes
103
77%
No
31
23%
 
Total votes : 134

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58455
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:42 am

The Au Sable River wrote: they’re not stealing jobs. They do the jobs Americans don’t want to.

This argument has always been distinctly uncomfortable, given the actual situation on the ground.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Valrifell
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Posts: 20854
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:45 am

Galloism wrote:
The Au Sable River wrote: they’re not stealing jobs. They do the jobs Americans don’t want to.

This argument has always been distinctly uncomfortable, given the actual situation on the ground.


Like the borderline slavelike conditions most undocumented workers experience for little to no pay under the constant threat of deportation?
Last edited by Valrifell on Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58455
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:48 am

Valrifell wrote:
Galloism wrote:This argument has always been distinctly uncomfortable, given the actual situation on the ground.


Like the borderline slavelike conditions most undocumented workers experience for little to no pay under the constant threat of deportation?

Precisely - pasted onto reality, it's essentially an argument that "hey guise, we can't make our own people live in borderline slavelike conditions and work for less than minimum wage, but we can get the mexicans to be our virtual slaves!", which has always rubbed me the wrong ass way.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129952
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:48 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's not true, even according to fascists themselves. Richard Spencer has said that consistent antifa protests have taken all the fun out of public speaking. Charlottesville was meant to bring fascists into the mainstream, and instead it ruined them. Subsequent far-right rallies saw fascists massively outnumbered by counter protesters. And now where are they? Do they even try to have rallies any more?

The far right also says that their planning was terrible and it would have been a failure either way. Also, you’re confusing fascists with neo-fascists. They both are bad, but only one is the real thing.

Fash is fash is fash.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Minister
 
Posts: 3238
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:50 am

The Au Sable River wrote:
Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.


You’re a total moron. The wall is completely idiotic. It’s impossible to stop everyone from getting in, and they’re not stealing jobs. They do the jobs Americans don’t want to. Plus, your bullshit about being proud of being white, cisgender, male and straight is totally racist and uncalled for, you asshole hick. And yeah, I’m a hick too but I’m an open-minded, unracist hick.

You're so open minded you simply insult people who disagree with you. :roll:
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

Against: Crony Capitalism, Fascism, Antifa, Ethnic Nationalism, alt-right, Communism, Religion, Totalitarianism, Authoritarianism
Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2291
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:54 am

British Tackeettlaus wrote:It is still true that Antifa won this round. They are one of the reasons there probably not be anything on the scale of Charlottesville any time in the near future. It's not just the counter protesting and violence towards the fascists* although it is a factor, it is also the work they did recording, outing and doxxing attendees. This is a major disincentive to attending a fascist* event as many of them face issues with their friends, family and employers when outed.

Overall I do think Antifa are a negative force, they scare the normies. And they have hit the wrong targets and they are basically hated by 90% of people.

*I am just calling them fascists because I can't be bothered to argue semantics. Fascists, Neo-Fascists, Identitarians, Alt-Right, Ethnonationalists, White nationalists etc. etc. etc. whatever they are calling themselves this month, they still unironically want to commit violence against me and people I care about. They advocate deporting my mother and my girlfriend and maybe my daughter too, or sending them to camps. They unironically would like a country where I am sent to a camp or thrown from a helicopter. So Don't necessarily care about violence being commited against them.

Antifa did not win. The far right attacked first and carried out the violence. Antifa would have struck first had it really been them. Also, your deportation argument is invalid against me because I have family who could be deported, not because they immigrated illegally, but because certain people want to deport all Hispanics. As a law abiding citizen, I will only support political action against them. That is, until the next major war comes. Then violent action can be justified. But it’s not a war (yet), and the laws safeguarding those despite ideological are well reasoned.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

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El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
Page
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9504
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:56 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:Antifa did not win. The far right attacked first and carried out the violence. Antifa would have struck first had it really been them.


Antifa wins every time a fascist decides to stay home because they think going out on the streets and demonstrating is too dangerous of a thing to do.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43140
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:58 am

Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.


If it's unimportant to them, why are they still including funding for it in the bills they are trying to pass to get the government reopened that the GOP are blocking?
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Page
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9504
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:11 am

I think that there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment that prohibits anyone, no matter what their job is, showing up to work without pay. You either pay them, or they stay home. That means if there's a shutdown, air travel in America ceases to happen because there's no TSA and no air traffic controllers. The FBI can't do anything, if there's a terrorist attack, too damn bad, they're staying home. Secret Service? Nope, the President can jog by himself and better hope there are no crazy assassins lurking (not the current President though, this President doesn't jog so he'll be just fine).

And some of you who are reading this will say "But if that happens the whole country will plunge into chaos, thousands of people will die!" That's the point, because if this law was in place, it would never get to that point. Shutdowns would end in 40 seconds.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20854
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:14 am

Page wrote:I think that there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment that prohibits anyone, no matter what their job is, showing up to work without pay. You either pay them, or they stay home. That means if there's a shutdown, air travel in America ceases to happen because there's no TSA and no air traffic controllers. The FBI can't do anything, if there's a terrorist attack, too damn bad, they're staying home. Secret Service? Nope, the President can jog by himself and better hope there are no crazy assassins lurking (not the current President though, this President doesn't jog so he'll be just fine).

And some of you who are reading this will say "But if that happens the whole country will plunge into chaos, thousands of people will die!" That's the point, because if this law was in place, it would never get to that point. Shutdowns would end in 40 seconds.


We could, you know, just make the amendment say "shutdowns are no-no, use last years budget if you can't make up your stupid little minds"

Just a thought.
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I did some things

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LiberNovusAmericae
Minister
 
Posts: 3238
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:15 am

It's obvious that the shutdown isn't going to end any time soon. Friday January 25th is only a few days away, and neither side is even speaking to each other, but I don't think it is that bad of a problem. The shutdown isn't going to cause a societal collapse, and it mostly entails typical partisan bickering.
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

Against: Crony Capitalism, Fascism, Antifa, Ethnic Nationalism, alt-right, Communism, Religion, Totalitarianism, Authoritarianism
Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3368
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Frievolk » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:19 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It's obvious that the shutdown isn't going to end any time soon. Friday January 25th is only a few days away, and neither side is even speaking to each other, but I don't think it is that bad of a problem. The shutdown isn't going to cause a societal collapse, and it mostly entails typical partisan bickering.

It might if it goes long enough to affect the appropriate federal offices. No Health Inspections for example, or the army not getting paid (After all, the Coast Guard isn't getting paid right now), might get the appropriate entities to wake from their slumber. That is to say, if Trump and his stooges or the apparent adults in the situation don't "compromise" first, which I hope they don't.
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Page
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9504
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:21 am

Unithonia wrote:This is ridiculous on the side of the Democrats. It's obvious that:
A: Border Security is in no way a proper issue to them, or even something that they care about
B: They want to block everything the president does. Hopefully the voters see this and decide not to vote for the hive-minds on the left.


Border security is an issue, it's just not an emergency. Border security matters in the same way that replacing old bridges matters, it's important like it's important to maintain national parks, it's a thing that has to be dealt with like how student loan crisis is a thing that has to be dealt with. But it's not an emergency. Trump has tried to convince us that it's an emergency, but he has no compelling evidence for it.

And if Trump said "let's implement single-payer health care", "let's establish a living wage", "let's get serious about climate change", do you think the Democrats would still block him? They block him because everything Trump wants is useless at best and usually harmful. Name one good thing Trump has tried to do that the Democrats have blocked.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

User avatar
Page
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9504
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:26 am

Valrifell wrote:
Page wrote:I think that there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment that prohibits anyone, no matter what their job is, showing up to work without pay. You either pay them, or they stay home. That means if there's a shutdown, air travel in America ceases to happen because there's no TSA and no air traffic controllers. The FBI can't do anything, if there's a terrorist attack, too damn bad, they're staying home. Secret Service? Nope, the President can jog by himself and better hope there are no crazy assassins lurking (not the current President though, this President doesn't jog so he'll be just fine).

And some of you who are reading this will say "But if that happens the whole country will plunge into chaos, thousands of people will die!" That's the point, because if this law was in place, it would never get to that point. Shutdowns would end in 40 seconds.


We could, you know, just make the amendment say "shutdowns are no-no, use last years budget if you can't make up your stupid little minds"

Just a thought.


Your proposal solves the problem of shutdowns just as well, but mine has the advantage that a particularly deranged President like Trump might still try to shutdown the government anyway, and because of that, within an hour he would be removed from office.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

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LiberNovusAmericae
Minister
 
Posts: 3238
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:29 am

Frievolk wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It's obvious that the shutdown isn't going to end any time soon. Friday January 25th is only a few days away, and neither side is even speaking to each other, but I don't think it is that bad of a problem. The shutdown isn't going to cause a societal collapse, and it mostly entails typical partisan bickering.

It might if it goes long enough to affect the appropriate federal offices. No Health Inspections for example, or the army not getting paid (After all, the Coast Guard isn't getting paid right now), might get the appropriate entities to wake from their slumber. That is to say, if Trump and his stooges or the apparent adults in the situation don't "compromise" first, which I hope they don't.

I don't think it will get to that point, plus the Coast Guard appears to be the only military branch that won't recieve pay., so I wouldn't expect the army to revolt. It sucks, but it is not a complete disaster.
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

Against: Crony Capitalism, Fascism, Antifa, Ethnic Nationalism, alt-right, Communism, Religion, Totalitarianism, Authoritarianism
Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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Internationalist Bastard
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Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:30 am

So what is the deal with the Pelosi flight ban?
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:32 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:So what is the deal with the Pelosi flight ban?


Trump being spiteful over her saying the SOTU should be postponed because there's no money for adequate security.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Minister
 
Posts: 3238
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:34 am

Page wrote:Border security is an issue, it's just not an emergency.

It's something you don't believe in.
Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism

Against: Crony Capitalism, Fascism, Antifa, Ethnic Nationalism, alt-right, Communism, Religion, Totalitarianism, Authoritarianism
Fascists on Gameside have declared me an Enemy of the State! lol.

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2291
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am

Valrifell wrote:
Page wrote:
We could, you know, just make the amendment say "shutdowns are no-no, use last years budget if you can't make up your stupid little minds"

Just a thought.

We can’t do that, then disputes would be less dramatic.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24050
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am

Vassenor wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:So what is the deal with the Pelosi flight ban?


Trump being spiteful over her saying the SOTU should be postponed because there's no money for adequate security.

I guess that makes sense
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2291
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am

EDIT:sorry, I already posted.
Last edited by The Galactic Liberal Democracy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20854
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:We can’t do that, then disputes would be less dramatic.


A fair point, we'd be depriving future Shakespeare of such good material.
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I did some things

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British Tackeettlaus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Oct 28, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby British Tackeettlaus » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:39 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Trump being spiteful over her saying the SOTU should be postponed because there's no money for adequate security.

I guess that makes sense


Doesn't apply to Melania who just flew to Florida on a government aircraft for a weekend holiday.

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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43140
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:41 am

British Tackeettlaus wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I guess that makes sense


Doesn't apply to Melania who just flew to Florida on a government aircraft for a weekend holiday.


Point of order, I'm not sure she did. I've seen it written out on Twitter as EXEC1F meaning it was a civil registered plane.
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Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24050
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:41 am

British Tackeettlaus wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I guess that makes sense


Doesn't apply to Melania who just flew to Florida on a government aircraft for a weekend holiday.

Well obviously
All of this is petty but I can understand this case of it
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

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