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US Government Shutdown- It's Over!... For Now

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Will the government shutdown in three weeks?

Yes
102
78%
No
29
22%
 
Total votes : 131

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Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59414
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:24 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Here's the thing - Dems don't want any walls, anymore. If they cave, a part of their base will be pissed off, and not vote for them. On the other hand, if there's no wall, Trump will be viewed as caving, thus losing a part of his base. This isn't about Republican Border Security, or Democrats caring about the poor little immigrant Jose, whom they are very happy for their donors to exploit with below minimum wage job offers. It's about the Presidential Election in 2020, which is why I think it'd be hilarious if Trump steps down and Pence runs. CNN/MSNBC will set a World Record in the switch from "muh Mueller Probe!" to "muh Gay Rights!"


So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

So, instead of doing their jobs, you want our government to spend all our money on pointless bullshit vanity projects? That sounds even worse than what we already have. Or rather, it sounds like exactly what we already have but with the added joy of them no longer caring enough to lie to us about how it'll help or whatever. It would be another step on the road to pre-Revolution France where the government is so out of touch with reality and its head shoved so far up its own ass that it no longer recognizes the people as human beings.
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Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48433
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:26 am

Olthar wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

So, instead of doing their jobs, you want our government to spend all our money on pointless bullshit vanity projects? That sounds even worse than what we already have. Or rather, it sounds like exactly what we already have but with the added joy of them no longer caring enough to lie to us about how it'll help or whatever. It would be another step on the road to pre-Revolution France where the government is so out of touch with reality and its head shoved so far up its own ass that it no longer recognizes the people as human beings.

As probably the most revolutionary person in the room I see no problem with this
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Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59414
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:28 am

Shofercia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no


Cocaine should be legalized and regulated?


Olthar wrote:So, instead of wasting money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits, we waste money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits that has better PR. The War on Drugs doesn't work.


I somehow doubt that busting El Chapo was a waste of money. The overall strategy of the War on Drugs is poorly thought out. Employing key tactics to stop cocaine at border crossings tends to work.

Then why has cocaine use (as well as other illegal drugs) only gone up since the War started and continues to rise every year? Busting the users, the dealers, the distributors, and even the growers does absolutely nothing because they'll all be replaced almost immediately. The War on Drugs is a complete and total waste of time and money.
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Shofercia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27889
Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:30 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

Unlike you the democrat base doesn’t want the democrats to be sell outs


Thermy, IM is not loyal to Democrats or Republicans, so he cannot sell out the parties that he's not a member of, and plays no role in.


Infected Mushroom wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Here's the thing - Dems don't want any walls, anymore. If they cave, a part of their base will be pissed off, and not vote for them. On the other hand, if there's no wall, Trump will be viewed as caving, thus losing a part of his base. This isn't about Republican Border Security, or Democrats caring about the poor little immigrant Jose, whom they are very happy for their donors to exploit with below minimum wage job offers. It's about the Presidential Election in 2020, which is why I think it'd be hilarious if Trump steps down and Pence runs. CNN/MSNBC will set a World Record in the switch from "muh Mueller Probe!" to "muh Gay Rights!"


So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?


They got it - funding of Planned Parenthood. They have nothing that would be as powerful as the wall. Also, there are a lot of Democrat donors that are anti-wall. The reason that the US didn't get stuck in the Syrian Civil War, was because the voters on both sides called their politicians, and said "don't you fucking dare!" Regarding Planned Parenthood, the Republican Base was ok with doubling the funds that PP spends on all other services, except abortion, and doing it through other companies, that would have to be approved by Democrats. It's voter and donor emotion, rather than actual policy making.

Take a look at the first line of this quite amazing parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGO2fz1KlSc

"Alright everybody you know the drill, we all know how we're voting, but let's get those soundbites for our donor emails"
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 125736
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:31 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:What if the Democrats gave Trump his 5 billion for the wall, but in exchange ask for an additional 2-3 billion on a choice project of theirs?

Or does the US not have enough billions?

They tried to compromise, and Trump agreed. Until he was criticised on TV by some of his favourite right wing commentators. They he changed his mind started demanding even more money. So why would the Democrats try to compromise again? Trump will only agree until he watches Fox that evening or goes on Twitter.
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What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won
The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59414
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:32 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Olthar wrote:So, instead of doing their jobs, you want our government to spend all our money on pointless bullshit vanity projects? That sounds even worse than what we already have. Or rather, it sounds like exactly what we already have but with the added joy of them no longer caring enough to lie to us about how it'll help or whatever. It would be another step on the road to pre-Revolution France where the government is so out of touch with reality and its head shoved so far up its own ass that it no longer recognizes the people as human beings.

As probably the most revolutionary person in the room I see no problem with this

The problem is that I don't see a revolution ever actually happening. The people have simply become way too apathetic and lazy. They no longer care about what the government does short of pointless bitching. If the government allowed business owners to put fucking shock collars on all employees, there'd be a media outcry but then nothing would actually happen, and we'd all begrudgingly grow to deal with it.
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Shofercia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27889
Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:37 am

Olthar wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Cocaine should be legalized and regulated?




I somehow doubt that busting El Chapo was a waste of money. The overall strategy of the War on Drugs is poorly thought out. Employing key tactics to stop cocaine at border crossings tends to work.

Then why has cocaine use (as well as other illegal drugs) only gone up since the War started and continues to rise every year? Busting the users, the dealers, the distributors, and even the growers does absolutely nothing because they'll all be replaced almost immediately. The War on Drugs is a complete and total waste of time and money.


Offering cure programs to the users, deporting the dealers, jailing the distributors, burning the crops of the growers, is going to have at least some effect on drug use. The problem is that there aren't a lot of resources placed in sane anti-drug education, nor are there ways, for most users/distributors/dealers/growers to exit the system. The overall strategy needs to change. The tactic of efficient border patrolling, helps reduce the supply, which drives up the price and reduces demand.

https://drugabuse.com/cocaine/history-statistics/

Overall use of cocaine in the US peaked during the crack epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s but over the last 10 years has since declined; however, cocaine remains the 2nd most popular illicit recreational drug in this country behind cannabis. Some important statistics about cocaine abuse include:

According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) in 2012, nearly 4.7 million Americans aged 12 or older reported using cocaine in the past year, and almost 38 million reported ever using cocaine in their lifetime.

The NSDUH also revealed that lifetime use of either powdered cocaine or crack was significantly higher among Whites (16.9%) than either Blacks (9.7%) or Hispanics (11.6%).

The Monitoring the Future survey of drug use in adolescents found the rate of cocaine use among high schools seniors has fallen over the last 15 years and stood at 2.6% in 2014, the lowest percentage since the survey began in 1975.
Ukraine - stop bombing innocent people! Pricks who burn other people alive should be punished.
WADA/IPC/IOC are begging Russia to form a strategic alliance with China. Perhaps it's time.
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If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

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User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9829
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:41 am

Shofercia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no


Cocaine should be legalized and regulated?


Olthar wrote:So, instead of wasting money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits, we waste money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits that has better PR. The War on Drugs doesn't work.


I somehow doubt that busting El Chapo was a waste of money. The overall strategy of the War on Drugs is poorly thought out. Employing key tactics to stop cocaine at border crossings tends to work.

Yes it should...

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Salandriagado
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17524
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:43 am

Shofercia wrote:There is a crisis on the Southern border, but it's about drugs, not immigrants. So why don't we just give Trump's $5 billion border wall funding to the DEA and the Border Patrol, tell them "here's five billion, cut down the drug trade" and see how they want to spend it?


That would require Trump having a thought.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Greater vakolicci haven
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9829
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:44 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Shofercia wrote:There is a crisis on the Southern border, but it's about drugs, not immigrants. So why don't we just give Trump's $5 billion border wall funding to the DEA and the Border Patrol, tell them "here's five billion, cut down the drug trade" and see how they want to spend it?


That would require Trump having a thought.

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.

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Salandriagado
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17524
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:46 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
That would require Trump having a thought.

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.


No he hasn't. I see no evidence that he's ever had a thought that wasn't fed to him.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Greater vakolicci haven
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9829
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:47 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.


No he hasn't. I see no evidence that he's ever had a thought that wasn't fed to him.

Who thought up 'build the wall?'

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The Black Forrest
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Posts: 33987
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:48 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
That would require Trump having a thought.

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.


Really? Can you name a few that don't follow the republican play book?
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MGTOWia
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Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby MGTOWia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:50 am

Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.
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Salandriagado
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17524
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:52 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
No he hasn't. I see no evidence that he's ever had a thought that wasn't fed to him.

Who thought up 'build the wall?'


Fox News.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 125736
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:55 am

MGTOWia wrote:Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.

Congress can revoke a declaration of a national emergency.
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What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won
The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48433
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:59 am

MGTOWia wrote:Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.

Pulling a National Emergency is the dumbest thing Trump could do as it would only piss off the military, where the $6 Billion funds would come from, or piss off the people in Florida and Texas effected by the hurricanes, where the $6 Billion can also come from.

Oh and the thing auto sunsets after a year with no Congressional consent. And congress has to vote on it to approve its continuation 6 months after the order has been given.
Last edited by Thermodolia on Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:00 pm

MGTOWia wrote:Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.


Would these be the American citizens who don't actually want Trump's wall, as we have established on multiple occasions?
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:27 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:I'd be ok with that.

Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no


Legalize meth and cocaine?

No.
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Valrifell
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:10 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no


Legalize meth and cocaine?

No.


But also: let people use their bodies as they want and give addicts an out instead of punishing them.
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Kowani
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kowani » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:12 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no


Legalize meth and cocaine?

No.

What happened to bodily autonomy?
Oh wait, drugs are icky.
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The Traansval
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New York Times Democracy

Postby The Traansval » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:12 pm

Governments been shut down for more than fifteen days so we're legally allowed to seceed from the Union
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Northern Davincia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:26 pm

The Traansval wrote:Governments been shut down for more than fifteen days so we're legally allowed to seceed from the Union

I dislike the govenrment passionately but seceding from the union ain't an option.
We're sticking by this 'til the end.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:33 pm

The Traansval wrote:Governments been shut down for more than fifteen days so we're legally allowed to seceed from the Union

That sounds like Dixie talk
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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:35 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
The Traansval wrote:Governments been shut down for more than fifteen days so we're legally allowed to seceed from the Union

That sounds like Dixie talk
Am I gonna need to get Tecumseh?

Do it again, Uncle Sherman!
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