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US Government Shutdown- It's Over!... For Now

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Will the government shutdown in three weeks?

Yes
102
77%
No
30
23%
 
Total votes : 132

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am

Greed and Death wrote:
The South Falls wrote:the government would be crippled


It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

I’m pretty sure that most of the TSA and pretty much all of ATC aren’t really democrats. Both of who are effected. If both of those groups quit tomorrow the economy would take a massive hit. Throw in a massive, and probably likely if ATC went on strike, strike by other transportation unions and the entire economy grinds to a halt.
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United States of Natan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby United States of Natan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:22 am

Greed and Death wrote:
The South Falls wrote:the government would be crippled


It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

You seem to be under the impression that the "deep state" is an actual thing. It is not, because the ones responsible for actually implementing policy are appointed. Should bureaucrats hinder or refuse to implement administration policies, they would be fired. So they really can't "hamstring" the government.
Then it's a lie. Everything Fox News says is a lie.
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Sane Outcasts
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sane Outcasts » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:23 am

Greed and Death wrote:
The South Falls wrote:the government would be crippled


It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

Trump has shown no interest or ability to fill vacant positions before the shutdown started, he's not about to start being smart about it when the number of vacancies goes from hundreds to tens of thousands.

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United States of Natan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby United States of Natan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:24 am

Sane Outcasts wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

Trump has shown no interest or ability to fill vacant positions before the shutdown started, he's not about to start being smart about it when the number of vacancies goes from hundreds to tens of thousands.

This is an accurate assumption.
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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:44 am

Greed and Death wrote:
The South Falls wrote:the government would be crippled


It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

It is highly illegal to impose political standards on the employment of civil servants. The whole idea of a civil service is to have the body of government bureaucracy run by people who are actually qualified to run it, rather than whatever partisan buffoon gets appointed to a position by another partisan buffoon.
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Rezmaeristan
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Rezmaeristan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:46 am

If this shutdown goes on long enough, do you think it might inspire mass protests/riots? I could see federal workers going out and protesting and some of these turning violent... somehow, but I dunno. If it goes on so long food stamps don't get funded... well, you'd better be careful unless you're feeling depressed.
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Wallenburg
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:53 am

Rezmaeristan wrote:If this shutdown goes on long enough, do you think it might inspire mass protests/riots? I could see federal workers going out and protesting and some of these turning violent... somehow, but I dunno. If it goes on so long food stamps don't get funded... well, you'd better be careful unless you're feeling depressed.

We've already got a union protest of furloughed TSA workers. I'm sure there will be others.
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Roskian Federation
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Roskian Federation » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:59 am

Shofercia wrote:
Toaslandia wrote:Trump's wall wouldn't work too well. Most illegal immigrants come in on planes. But the senate should just have about $2.5 billion dollars for border security, with our soldiers down by the border I think we have it covered.


[Citation needed]


The New California Republic wrote:The US-Mexican border makes up a relatively small part of the total border that needs to be policed, so saying that the Democrats don't think that border security is an issue is completely spurious. It's like saying that someone who doesn't like pepperoni pizza doesn't like pizza at all.


The other borders include the US border with Canada, the Atlantic Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, with the World's largest navy patrolling them, and there's also the Arctic Ocean, but Polar Bears have yet to manifest a major threat.


Neutraligon wrote:Have there been any studies as to whether a wall as Trump proposes is effective?


Are you expecting Congress to do effective studies? Love your optimism. Congress has commissioned a study on quails having sex while high on cocaine, and another on the effect of leaf blowers on lizards. They don't have time for this border wall stuff! (I recommend reading Rand Paul's Twitter Festivus, whole damn thing's hilarious)


Roughly have of US undocumented immigrants are overstayed visas (planes)

Also, considering we know for a fact that the wall is going to be ineffective -
Kinda hard to stop illegal immigrants from coming through the wall if they actually go right through points of entry...
or under the wall...
which
means
walls
don't
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:34 am

Rezmaeristan wrote:If this shutdown goes on long enough, do you think it might inspire mass protests/riots? I could see federal workers going out and protesting and some of these turning violent... somehow, but I dunno. If it goes on so long food stamps don't get funded... well, you'd better be careful unless you're feeling depressed.

ATC will eventually strike if this thing goes on long enough. If they strike and other unions join in it would be a disaster for the economy. CEOs would be pissed
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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:51 am

Wallenburg wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

It is highly illegal to impose political standards on the employment of civil servants. The whole idea of a civil service is to have the body of government bureaucracy run by people who are actually qualified to run it, rather than whatever partisan buffoon gets appointed to a position by another partisan buffoon.

Uhhuh.
I have also worked in several bureaucracies as interns and before law school. While out and out political hiring is illegal (except for political appointees) recruitment can be targeted and even failing that those seeking entry level jobs tend to match the department head or President's politics. The reason the Bureaucracy leans left is those leaning right tend to leave for the private sector in a few years rather than waiting 10-15 years for a mid to late career position to open up.

Now if you were to open up mid to late career positions and recruit externally for those positions (again targeted recruitment) it is very likely to see 60 if not 70% of the positions going those whose policies more align with Trump and or his appointees. Mid and late career positions have a far lower attrition rate because many of those positions have nearly comparable pay to the private sector.
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The South Falls
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:04 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Rezmaeristan wrote:If this shutdown goes on long enough, do you think it might inspire mass protests/riots? I could see federal workers going out and protesting and some of these turning violent... somehow, but I dunno. If it goes on so long food stamps don't get funded... well, you'd better be careful unless you're feeling depressed.

ATC will eventually strike if this thing goes on long enough. If they strike and other unions join in it would be a disaster for the economy. CEOs would be pissed

everyone would be pissed
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:05 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
The South Falls wrote:the government would be crippled


It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.


Trump doesn't directly oversee the hiring and firing of every minute aspect of civil service. The President stopped appointing postmen sometime in the 19th century, so this is an idea that's a tad late to the party.
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Tobleste
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Tobleste » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:23 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lame-trump

ABC News and the Washington Post released a poll that followed trends when it showed 53% of respondents saying Trump and Republicans in Congress were to blame for the shutdown, with 29% blaming Democrats and 13% a combination. Support for building a border wall, the issue at the heart of the shutdown, increased to 42%, from 34% in January 2018. Among Republicans, 87% supported a wall.


So 66% blame republicans and 42% blame democrats. 4D chess.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:26 pm

Tobleste wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/13/shutdown-americans-blame-trump

ABC News and the Washington Post released a poll that followed trends when it showed 53% of respondents saying Trump and Republicans in Congress were to blame for the shutdown, with 29% blaming Democrats and 13% a combination. Support for building a border wall, the issue at the heart of the shutdown, increased to 42%, from 34% in January 2018. Among Republicans, 87% supported a wall.


So 66% blame republicans and 42% blame democrats. 4D chess.


What's weird is that support for the wall went up, which might mean more people are admitting the shutdown was the fault of Republicans but saying it was a good thing.

Boggles the noggin, I'll tell ya.
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Ifreann
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:26 pm

Tobleste wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/13/shutdown-americans-blame-trump

ABC News and the Washington Post released a poll that followed trends when it showed 53% of respondents saying Trump and Republicans in Congress were to blame for the shutdown, with 29% blaming Democrats and 13% a combination. Support for building a border wall, the issue at the heart of the shutdown, increased to 42%, from 34% in January 2018. Among Republicans, 87% supported a wall.


So 66% blame republicans and 42% blame democrats. 4D chess.

There would seem to be quite a bit of overlap between people blaming Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown, but also supporting the wall.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:31 pm

Tobleste wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/13/shutdown-americans-blame-trump

ABC News and the Washington Post released a poll that followed trends when it showed 53% of respondents saying Trump and Republicans in Congress were to blame for the shutdown, with 29% blaming Democrats and 13% a combination. Support for building a border wall, the issue at the heart of the shutdown, increased to 42%, from 34% in January 2018. Among Republicans, 87% supported a wall.


So 66% blame republicans and 42% blame democrats. 4D chess.


Majority blames Trump and doesn't want a wall.
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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

I’m pretty sure that most of the TSA and pretty much all of ATC aren’t really democrats. Both of who are effected. If both of those groups quit tomorrow the economy would take a massive hit. Throw in a massive, and probably likely if ATC went on strike, strike by other transportation unions and the entire economy grinds to a halt.

But % of the whole do they make up of the 800,000 ?

I also challenge the premise as minority representation in the TSA is pretty high.
Lets see here we go less than 50% white:
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:18 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I’m pretty sure that most of the TSA and pretty much all of ATC aren’t really democrats. Both of who are effected. If both of those groups quit tomorrow the economy would take a massive hit. Throw in a massive, and probably likely if ATC went on strike, strike by other transportation unions and the entire economy grinds to a halt.

But % of the whole do they make up of the 800,000 ?

I also challenge the premise as minority representation in the TSA is pretty high.
Lets see here we go less than 50% white:
https://bestplacestowork.org/rankings/d ... tegory_tbl

There’s about 15,000 ACT guys so about 2%. However if ATC went on strike/quit en mass it would hurt the economy big time.

There’s a lot of minorities in the military too. Doesn’t mean the US military is full of democrats.
Last edited by Thermodolia on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:Like I said before, I'm very surprised the Republicans haven't gotten sick of him and just installed Mike Pence instead.

The guy is a hardliner golden boy.

Must be because he's somehow more annoying and uncontrollable than Trump is. Granted, he doesn't strike me that way, but why haven't they installed his white-bread ass, then?


Because Trump would be the first president ever impeached and removed from office, it would be considered a slight by the people who voted for him and a mark of shame on the republican party that would last for a very long time.


Oooooor... The Republicans are simply cleaning house. They realized their mistake and they're doing the responsible thing, what the Democrats are too weak to do.

Drain the swamp, remember? Just turns out that their golden, erm, orange boy is the swamp they had to drain. A swamp all his own.

*gasp* Just like Anakin Skywalker
Last edited by The Rich Port on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:41 pm

Also, looking for what people said about the Birther fiasco... I found a thread that asked, "should people who said they would leave after Trump came to power be deported?"

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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:52 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
It would also hand Trump the chance to hand his long term influence on the country. The workers affected are not law enforcement nor military (with the exception of the coast guard who aren't allowed to quit) are likely democratic leaning. A mass quitting while disaster for the govnerment would also mean he could replace predominately Democratic leaning elements of the bureaucracy with predominately Republican ones would vastly hamstring future administrations ability to move policies left wards.

I’m pretty sure that most of the TSA and pretty much all of ATC aren’t really democrats. Both of who are effected. If both of those groups quit tomorrow the economy would take a massive hit. Throw in a massive, and probably likely if ATC went on strike, strike by other transportation unions and the entire economy grinds to a halt.


Why would the railroads and truckers strike because of the ATC?

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I’m pretty sure that most of the TSA and pretty much all of ATC aren’t really democrats. Both of who are effected. If both of those groups quit tomorrow the economy would take a massive hit. Throw in a massive, and probably likely if ATC went on strike, strike by other transportation unions and the entire economy grinds to a halt.


Why would the railroads and truckers strike because of the ATC?

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Valrifell
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I’m pretty sure that most of the TSA and pretty much all of ATC aren’t really democrats. Both of who are effected. If both of those groups quit tomorrow the economy would take a massive hit. Throw in a massive, and probably likely if ATC went on strike, strike by other transportation unions and the entire economy grinds to a halt.


Why would the railroads and truckers strike because of the ATC?


Because if workers in a similar but different field gets fucked over, it sends a message to employers that says "it's okay to fuck us over", essentially.

Solidarity among the proletariat, and all that.
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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:55 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Why would the railroads and truckers strike because of the ATC?

Union Solidarity

Yeah lets crash the whole economy instead of trying to help each other out.

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Valrifell
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:56 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Union Solidarity

Yeah lets crash the whole economy instead of trying to help each other out.


Crashing the economy is helping each other out, my dude.
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