Nationalism vs. Globalism

[Jolthig]

Hello, NSG,

I wanted to make a thread on nationalism and globalism. Seeing how the former, is a reaction to the latter. With the world becoming more globalized, and with the inter mixing of cultures or trends coming in within various nations, some people heavily dislike this, fearing that a nation's cultural identity will be destroyed by other cultures.

Personally, I find many forms of nationalism to be quite absurd, considering the age that we live in. I mean, let's face it, guys. We are becoming more intermixed by the minute. I don't see how some European countries banning a few Islamic customs/things, or Muslim theocratic countries attempting to blot out western influences will change things. Humanity is becoming more multicultural, and it is ingrained within us that we humans are social animals.

With the world being connected with one another, it makes sense that there should be globalization, especially on the cultural and economic level. The way, trump is trying to go with his "America First" policy or Brexit, they're both fallacious views, and they simply will not in the long run, at least, work.

With that said, let's discuss, shall we?

[Prolific Sherpaposting]

There are a lot of issues that make globalism unpalatable to me. And it’s not an idea that’s going to be successful until rights are removed from government enforcement at the least.

It’s one of the few ideas where it’s right to use violence to prohibit.

[Dagnia]

I'm not opposed to all globalization, but I mostly see it as a very bad thing. They've done a really good job of dressing it up as some global circle-jerk of peace, and that anyone opposed to it is an insecure, uneducated, bigoted hick, but in the end it's all about money. It is designed to make it easy for the wealthiest to transfer taxable capital, move the cheapest labor to their work places, create an atomized workforce with no solidarity, and a workforce that will not stand up for itself, because they will be constantly reminded how easy they are to replace.
The US has so few labor protections, the only leverage the American worker from Janitor to CFO has is when there's a labor shortage, and the past 15 or so companies have been able to chip away at benefits and even basic decency towards their workers. Anyone who clucks the South Park "Dey turk ur jerbs!" mockingly at anyone afraid of losing their jobs to a foreigner had a lot of bad karma coming their way. In the last couple years up until a few executive orders signed by Trump that lead to denying H-1B visas and visa extensions, I saw that visa being used in weird ways for totally non-technical jobs that should be safe from it. The scheme involved things add "analyst" to any title, and Tata or Infosys would furnish a visa for someone who would work for a fraction of the salary and would technically work for them but as a consultant for us. And that's the end goal, anyone can be replaced and anyone who's not the top 1% of the top 1% lives a precarious existence where they will adjust to anything to make those who are even richer.

[New haven america]

I'm not opposed to all globalization, but I mostly see it as a very bad thing. They've done a really good job of dressing it up as some global circle-jerk of peace, and that anyone opposed to it is an insecure, uneducated, bigoted hick,

Someone's projecting...

[VoVoDoCo]

Well, there's three kinds of globalism:

• Economic Globalism- the spreading of goods, services, capital, etc across national borders. Essentially, the more your nation values free trade, the more it values economic globalism.
• Cultural/Intellectual Globalism- the spreading of ideas and discoveries across national borders, such as the Harry Potter series and the book "On Poverty and Progress" being made available in all free nations of the world.
• Political Globalism- the growing influence nations have on each other's national policies. Such as NAFTA USMCA or the UNFCCC.

I approve of economic globalism and cultural globalism. I'm kind on the fence when it comes to political globalism. But I definitely approve of any form of it that facilitates the former two.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Eh, I'm more of a "Continentalism" fan.

[Tillania]

You have to differentiate between Globalisation and Globalism.

Globalisation is a fact and nothing can stop or reverse it. Corporations are international, capital moves freely. To them, any single nationstate is irrelevant as they are very adept at playing them off against each other.
Once the nationstates come together, cooperate and refuse to play that game, they can stand up to the Corporations.

No single European state could have forced Mark Zuckerberg to testify about his shady practices, the UK has tried. The European Union did and he showed up.
Always look who has to gain from driving a wedge between nations: International corporations and decaying former Great Powers trying to reestablish a hegemony.

I'll leave with the now infamous quote from Rupert Murdoch:
'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.'

[Kowani]

Honestly, I can't see a large problem with globalism as theory. In practice, certain corporations are not exactly good players, and certain local politicians may take advantage of humanitarian aid to enrich themselves. However, it is not an inherently negative process, and cross-cultural pollination is something to be desired. So, all in all, not a bad thing. We might finally move past the tribalism that infests us right now.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Are the "America First" nationalists of the US. the most powerful country on earth, not saying they want a global empire?

[Kalabrien]

I can see why Globalism is and will be successful, but personally I always thought that it isn't the best thing ever.
Surely it's not a process that we can stop by banning certain aspects of certain cultures, but I think that instead of giving up preserving local cultures, we should protect them.

You see, I live in southern Italy, and as you may know Italy is a patchwork of different cultures,dialects and things like that. But right now, we are slowly losing the dialect-speaking generations and we're going towards an "Italian culture" future, erasing what kind of local cultures there are. That's not good at all.

The cultural diversity brings in a lot of tourists and we really are proud of our cultural background.

Songs like "Tu vuò fà l'americano" (You want to be an American), even if outdated, show how the Italian people see this globalism phenomenon.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Multiculturalism has failed. Where communities have not been properly integrated (integration being the opposite of multiculturalism), tensions between minority and majority groups are on the rise, and large sections end up locking themselves away in ethnic enclaves. Their children often then do not have a full command of the native language and define themselves as their long-ago origin first and then - at best - their host country second. With low opportunities, and defining themselves against mainstream society, second and third generationers can become criminal, violent or even terroristic.

People are tribal, and when you shove them into the same space, they tend to separate unless very dedicated social policy is undertaken - Western leaders don't have the confidence to do so because of colonial guilt and fears of being labelled racist by the minority political wing and their liberal shills.

Transient populations of temporary immigrants are used for cheap labour, cutting the domestic working class out of the market by reducing the "going rate" to an amount that won't allow any native person any prospect of ever owning a home or providing for themselves, but which will make an immigrant and their family wealthy when they return home. Working-class people then often look towards anti-immigrant parties which spread hate-rhetoric, further disabling the chances and inclination of the minorities to integrate.

Falling social solidarity and the split up of communities allows political forces to cynically play on divisions and for people on both sides to make careers of race-baiting, allowing right-populist political forces to seize the political momentum from the left, blame immigrants as a whole rather than just multiculturalism, and not take any steps to actually address the root problems, often making it worse by running down welfare and creating economic anxieties.

Globalisation is a political-economic strategy of late-stage capitalism to divide the working people among themselves and prevent coherent challenge to class inequality by hiding it under a layer of pervasive and hyper-politcised cultural conflict. The only way to combat it is a reborn socialist form of nationalism that gives more than lip service to integration, commits itself to justice for the domestic working classes, and cracks down on the divisive political speak from both the far right and far left that deliberately drives people apart.

[The New California Republic]

Personally, I find many forms of nationalism to be quite absurd, considering the age that we live in. I mean, let's face it, guys. We are becoming more intermixed by the minute.

The population shifting of the Industrial Revolution in particular just sped up a process that was already happening for thousands of years. Organizing nationalism around a racial line can often be easily undermined, by creating a genealogy of the average person who seems to fit into the race that is being lauded. Racial nationalism falls apart when any pretense of purity is blown out of the water by having an ancestor from somewhere else.

[Duhon]

I don't really care one way or the other. I don't fetishize culture, I help people whenever and whenever I can, if they need help. Culture is a nice thing to have, but if it tells you to be a dick to other people because they're different, then I'm going to set it aside, not offer them up as sacrifice so the god of culture remains happy.

That's as simple as I could make it. Does this mean I'm a globalist? I suppose it does, but it's an ideology that can be abused, a way for someone to tell some other how to live his life when that some other's not hurting anyone else, which is a thing that goes both ways.

So at the last remove I'm not that much of a globalist -- I just really loathe dicks.

[The New California Republic]

I just really loathe dicks.

We are so different, you and I...

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I just really loathe dicks.

We are so different, you and I...

Was that a subtle homosexuality reference?

Jesus bloody Christ!

[New haven america]

We are so different, you and I...

Was that a subtle homosexuality reference?

Jesus bloody Christ!

No no, that was implication of homosexuality.

[Duhon]

We are so different, you and I...

Was that a subtle homosexuality reference?

Jesus bloody Christ!

I could've said "cunts" as it would've meant as much without it going too far as he did. Really, the only reason I say the word all the time is that I have one.

[Saiwania]

This is very simple to understand from my perspective. Nationalism is the good side, while globalism is the evil side. Nationalism will triumph over globalism as soon as people get dissatisfied enough at seeing changes they disapprove of or are negative broadly speaking.

[Far Easter Republic]

I'm not opposed to all globalization, but I mostly see it as a very bad thing. They've done a really good job of dressing it up as some global circle-jerk of peace, and that anyone opposed to it is an insecure, uneducated, bigoted hick, but in the end it's all about money. It is designed to make it easy for the wealthiest to transfer taxable capital, move the cheapest labor to their work places, create an atomized workforce with no solidarity, and a workforce that will not stand up for itself, because they will be constantly reminded how easy they are to replace.
The US has so few labor protections, the only leverage the American worker from Janitor to CFO has is when there's a labor shortage, and the past 15 or so companies have been able to chip away at benefits and even basic decency towards their workers. Anyone who clucks the South Park "Dey turk ur jerbs!" mockingly at anyone afraid of losing their jobs to a foreigner had a lot of bad karma coming their way. In the last couple years up until a few executive orders signed by Trump that lead to denying H-1B visas and visa extensions, I saw that visa being used in weird ways for totally non-technical jobs that should be safe from it. The scheme involved things add "analyst" to any title, and Tata or Infosys would furnish a visa for someone who would work for a fraction of the salary and would technically work for them but as a consultant for us. And that's the end goal, anyone can be replaced and anyone who's not the top 1% of the top 1% lives a precarious existence where they will adjust to anything to make those who are even richer.

[Heloin]

This is very simple to understand from my perspective. Nationalism is the good side, while globalism is the evil side. Nationalism will triumph over globalism as soon as people get dissatisfied enough at seeing changes they disapprove of or are negative broadly speaking.

Sometimes I wonder what seeing a world in black and white would be like.

[The New California Republic]

This is very simple to understand from my perspective. Nationalism is the good side, while globalism is the evil side. Nationalism will triumph over globalism as soon as people get dissatisfied enough at seeing changes they disapprove of or are negative broadly speaking.

Splitting the situation into a deceptively clear cut good v evil argument is a bit of a cop out to be honest...

[Valrifell]

This is very simple to understand from my perspective. Nationalism is the good side, while globalism is the evil side. Nationalism will triumph over globalism as soon as people get dissatisfied enough at seeing changes they disapprove of or are negative broadly speaking.

Sometimes I wonder what seeing a world in black and white would be like.

Seems easier.

[Internationalist Bastard]

A strong global market encourages peace, as economies become more intermingled. The cost of war goes up as more of the national economy is ruined by the endeavor
More trade encourages cultural similarities, as we get exposed to things from other cultures and learn to enjoy them. Over time ideas spread to be and become popular.
This all in turn encourages cooperation, as our differences shrink and the evident benefit of working together grows.
But we’ll all kill each other before we see that day

[Toaslandia]

I see globalism as the next step in human advancement. Think about it, with one unified government we don't have to worry about war with other nations as we would be unified. It would also allow easier access to information, resources, and bring increased trade.

[The New California Republic]

A strong global market encourages peace, as economies become more intermingled. The cost of war goes up as more of the national economy is ruined by the endeavor
More trade encourages cultural similarities, as we get exposed to things from other cultures and learn to enjoy them. Over time ideas spread to be and become popular.
This all in turn encourages cooperation, as our differences shrink and the evident benefit of working together grows.
But we’ll all kill each other before we see that day

Hence why there was such an emphasis on growth and trade in post-WWII Western Europe; and arguably even within the Warsaw Pact.