Denmark Passes Law Requiring New Citizens Shake Hands

[Teachian]

This is the best shift in thread topic I’ve seen yet, hands down

[Galloism]

This is the best shift in thread topic I’ve seen yet, hands down

You gotta hand it to us.

[Teachian]

This is the best shift in thread topic I’ve seen yet, hands down

You gotta hand it to us.

Guess I’ll have to play the hand I’ve been dealt and say you’re right

[VoVoDoCo]

Why does a religion have to view proper male-female the same as you to not be shit?

Because we live in a nation where men and women are equal under the law. Any religion that goes against said law is obviously shit

You are either:

• Conflating conformity with the law with non-shittyness, making the religion only shitty in retrospect of Denmark's law.
• Suggesting that equality between people of different religions is somehow less important than equality between sexes, which dare I say is very discriminatory.
• Believing that equality under the law, which is defined as "any basic right or freedom to which all human beings are entitled and in whose exercise a government may not interfere (including rights to life and liberty as well as freedom of thought and expression and equality before the law)", somehow permits the use of legislation to target certain social groups. Are you sure you're not conflating equality under the law with entitlement to pointless national folkways?

[Pope Joan]

snarky twits

they may as well require us to sniff each other's butts

[Galloism]

snarky twits

they may as well require us to sniff each other's butts

<writes to President Trump>

[Pope Joan]

snarky twits

they may as well require us to sniff each other's butts

<writes to President Trump>

[Kaggeceria]

Excellent.

[Diopolis]

Actually, in Christianity, modesty rules vary significantly based on the particular sect or interpretation. Islam is likely the same way.

As the Muslim gentleman above me commented: "it's not what you deem modest, it's what your religion deems modest".

1 Corinthians 11 is universal and isn't something you can dismiss if you practice Christianity.

As for modesty, I was mostly stating the bare minimum requirements: particularly, the ones my sister follows. She doesn't see a problem with short shorts as long as they completely cover the backside.

How I define modesty for men and women is the exact standard I apply to myself: pants to the knees, no midriff, no cleavage (thankfully I don't have to deal with that), no backside, no glutial folds, no sexual attire.

I'm not disputing this. However, different interpretations of Christianity exist with more or less strict requirements. My interpretation bans showing the shoulders and requires the knees to be covered(and women must cover their heads in church with a hat or veil). The heresy of Mahommet probably has a similar set of variations- so because not all moorish sects require the hijab doesn't mean they all don't.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

As the Muslim gentleman above me commented: "it's not what you deem modest, it's what your religion deems modest".

1 Corinthians 11 is universal and isn't something you can dismiss if you practice Christianity.

As for modesty, I was mostly stating the bare minimum requirements: particularly, the ones my sister follows. She doesn't see a problem with short shorts as long as they completely cover the backside.

How I define modesty for men and women is the exact standard I apply to myself: pants to the knees, no midriff, no cleavage (thankfully I don't have to deal with that), no backside, no glutial folds, no sexual attire.

I'm not disputing this. However, different interpretations of Christianity exist with more or less strict requirements. My interpretation bans showing the shoulders and requires the knees to be covered(and women must cover their heads in church with a hat or veil). The heresy of Mahommet probably has a similar set of variations- so because not all moorish sects require the hijab doesn't mean they all don't.

Moorish sects don't exist, because "Moor" isn't a religion. It's an ethnicity. Also, who the heck is Mahommet? Why not just say "Muhammad"?

[Novo Razcon]

OP, I'm pretty sure Anne Frank was a refugee in the NETHERLANDS, not Denmark.

[United Muscovite Nations]

This rule is so, just, no. Islam doesn't allow shaking of hands from the opposite sex. Just have them shake hands with someone of their own sex. And if the rule is that you must physically shake hands, that leaves other groups out as well. What if you are severely immunocompromised? What if you have no arms? What if you can't control your arms? Denmark is clearly a smart country. After witnessing the persecution of Jews in WWII, they definitely understand what it's like. Now, they are persecuting the minority Muslim community. Disappointing from Denmark, of all nations, renowned for being kind and humble at all times.

You aren't being persecuted because society refuses to accomodate your silly religious rules. They're not being hunted down in the streets. We're merely not facilitating their shite.

What, are we persecuting fundamentalist Jews because we won't pay goyim to stand near crossings to press the traffic light button for them on sundays? Wah wah I can't use these crossings without risk of being run over by traffic, you're excluding me. And that one is an actual threat to life and limb.

No, you've just got a silly, arbitrary, self-imposed limitation, and we're not going to base our society around accomodating it and nor should we.

If you're so hardcore in your religion you wont shake hands with the opposite sex, that's your problem, not ours.

We let Jews not go to work on the Sabbath, certainly.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Allah apparently believes his people are incapable of controlling themselves around the opposite sex enough to shake hands.

If your culture is so savage and backwards that it is acceptable for a man to refuse to extend a handshake to a woman (or refuse to take her hand) because she is a woman, you have no place in Europe or the civilized world. Even nations that engage in alternates like bowing honor handshakes.

This is a method of forcing assimilation and it should be applauded, as well as applied in ever coutnry in Europe.

This is the most overdramatic thing I've ever heard, get over yourself.

[Thermodolia]

That's not why it's haram.

Please explain why then.

“It’s not abuse, you can just tap them”

[Thermodolia]

Fine: take off your hijab and beard if you want to be a Danish citizen

Manly Vikings and Danes wear beards, and beards aren't commanded by any religion except Sikhism. To my knowledge, Islam does not demand facial hair out of male followers.

Sikhism and Judaism are literally the only religions whose dress code (for all believers) is explicitly defined, in detail, in their Scriptures. Even then, the Jewish mandates are far more lax (put four tassles on your robe or top/shirt, don't wear mixed fibers, and don't shave the sides of your head are the three I remember) and don't require special accomodation.

While Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all mandate modest dress for men and women, the latter two don't go into detail as to how it is done. The Qu'ran, to my knowledge, doesn't define modest dress as specifically as observing hijab prescribes. Observing hijab seems to be a cultural practice from my outside view; Islam sounds like it demands "cover your breasts", not "cover your head", IMO.

Where, specifically, in the Qu'ran or Hadiths is observing hijab (for women) or wearing long pants that extend to your ankles (for men) located?

In Christianity," modesty" interpreted is not showing cleavage, no gluteal folds, no midriff (etc. etc.), not "cover your body from head to toe".

Any religion which tries to control the dress of its adherents isn’t a religion but a cult.

[Thermodolia]

Because we live in a nation where men and women are equal under the law. Any religion that goes against said law is obviously shit

You are either:

• Conflating conformity with the law with non-shittyness, making the religion only shitty in retrospect of Denmark's law.

I’m not talking about Denmark but in general.

Suggesting that equality between people of different religions is somehow less important than equality between sexes, which dare I say is very discriminatory.

I didn’t say that. But religions which don’t conform to our way of life shouldn’t be allowed. Men and women are considered equals in the west. Religions that think otherwise can go fuck off.

Believing that equality under the law, which is defined as "any basic right or freedom to which all human beings are entitled and in whose exercise a government may not interfere (including rights to life and liberty as well as freedom of thought and expression and equality before the law)", somehow permits the use of legislation to target certain social groups. Are you sure you're not conflating equality under the law with entitlement to pointless national folkways?

No I’m not. Again I’m talking in general here. If you want to defend a woman abusing religion or a religion that thinks child rape is ok then go ahead. But for the rest of western world we aren’t going to tolerate that shit

[Jolthig]

Manly Vikings and Danes wear beards, and beards aren't commanded by any religion except Sikhism. To my knowledge, Islam does not demand facial hair out of male followers.

Sikhism and Judaism are literally the only religions whose dress code (for all believers) is explicitly defined, in detail, in their Scriptures. Even then, the Jewish mandates are far more lax (put four tassles on your robe or top/shirt, don't wear mixed fibers, and don't shave the sides of your head are the three I remember) and don't require special accomodation.

While Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all mandate modest dress for men and women, the latter two don't go into detail as to how it is done. The Qu'ran, to my knowledge, doesn't define modest dress as specifically as observing hijab prescribes. Observing hijab seems to be a cultural practice from my outside view; Islam sounds like it demands "cover your breasts", not "cover your head", IMO.

Where, specifically, in the Qu'ran or Hadiths is observing hijab (for women) or wearing long pants that extend to your ankles (for men) located?

In Christianity," modesty" interpreted is not showing cleavage, no gluteal folds, no midriff (etc. etc.), not "cover your body from head to toe".

Any religion which tries to control the dress of its adherents isn’t a religion but a cult.

Please clarify.

[Thermodolia]

You aren't being persecuted because society refuses to accomodate your silly religious rules. They're not being hunted down in the streets. We're merely not facilitating their shite.

What, are we persecuting fundamentalist Jews because we won't pay goyim to stand near crossings to press the traffic light button for them on sundays? Wah wah I can't use these crossings without risk of being run over by traffic, you're excluding me. And that one is an actual threat to life and limb.

No, you've just got a silly, arbitrary, self-imposed limitation, and we're not going to base our society around accomodating it and nor should we.

If you're so hardcore in your religion you wont shake hands with the opposite sex, that's your problem, not ours.

We let Jews not go to work on the Sabbath, certainly.

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha. Ya no. No company let’s you just have the day off for religion anymore

[Jolthig]

We let Jews not go to work on the Sabbath, certainly.

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha. Ya no. No company let’s you just have the day off for religion anymore

Mine does though.

[Thermodolia]

Any religion which tries to control the dress of its adherents isn’t a religion but a cult.

Please clarify.

Meaning crazy rules that must be followed daily or there will be punishments for it in this life or the next. A loose guideline isn’t a cult.

[Thermodolia]

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha. Ya no. No company let’s you just have the day off for religion anymore

Mine does though.

Lucky. Mine doesn’t. They even say not to ask off for religious things because it won’t get approved

[Jolthig]

Please clarify.

Meaning crazy rules that must be followed daily or there will be punishments for it in this life or the next. A loose guideline isn’t a cult.

That really depends on what you mean by "crazy". No faith should give a guideline without a reason, and circumstances surrounding the ruling. As well as whether it's also applicable to another time.

If there's a ruling that you blindly follow for fear of punishment, then yes, I agree with you that particular faith or sect is a cult.

But if it's for the benefit of an individual, and if that individual reasons with themselves well whether through logic or faith (as in wanting a closer connection with his/her god(s)), then I personally see no problem with it. As long as it's not harming anyone.

[Jolthig]

Mine does though.

Lucky. Mine doesn’t. They even say not to ask off for religious things because it won’t get approved

Oh?

But its literally mandatory in your faith lol. The Torah would have people killed or at least sent to live in the desert for that in Moses' and later Israelite rulers' time haha

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

As you may have seen, a huge portion of the Western world is in quite of a broil lately, what with all this xenophobia stirred up by the war in Syria and the rise of ISIS. Hungary, Poland, Italy, Brazil, Britain, the United States, Denmark --

-- Denmark?

Yep.

Home to Europe's longest-running monarchy, the birthplace (and final resting place) of Hans Christian Andersen, and once host to a little refugee girl who I would not mind not knowing if that gave her a chance to live named Anne Frank, Denmark's been up to a few nasty tricks to piss off a certain minority lately.

Let's go to the New York Times for the tidbit:

My literal first reaction to this when I read the above was, "What do you do when the same host who went out of its way to assert your right to live goes full Nazi, Anne? Undone yet, Anne? Undone yet?"

Also the home-country of a guy named Elie Wiesel. His story was a bit more informative than Anne's, in the fact that he survived two death-camps (his father did not survive the second [Skull caved-in by a gaurd for refusing to get out of bed. Died sometime later by internal bleeding, his body remained there until the Russians liberated the camp]).

Placing obstacles in the path of naturalization is a normal practice to slow the rapid migration-rate into the country, and the obstacle isn't even a particularily difficult or unaccomidating one as the handshaking custom only is in regards to strangers of the opposite sex, which is a non-issue since alternate officials are available upon request if this is the case.

Noted towards the end of the article, not one instance has an applicant refused to shake hands at this point of juncture in the arguement of the law being discriminating.

Equating right to live with right to citizenship, and (by extionsion) the right to be conscripted to fight for Denmark are two different things.

Since 12 February 1849, all physically fit men are obligated to conscription

I am of the belief that being able to look your peers in the eye and discuss matters candidly and without an air of condescension is necessary in civil politics of the many democratic regional councils of Denmark [direct democracy]. This would of course require treating members of the opposite sex as your direct peers as their votes are counted with the same validity (in fact possibly more in the case of a voting citizen and an illegal voter).

[The Alma Mater]

If your culture is so savage and backwards that it is acceptable for a man to refuse to extend a handshake to a woman (or refuse to take her hand) because she is a woman, you have no place in Europe or the civilized world. Even nations that engage in alternates like bowing honor handshakes.

This is a method of forcing assimilation and it should be applauded, as well as applied in ever coutnry in Europe.

This is the most overdramatic thing I've ever heard, get over yourself.

Is it overdramatic ? As has been pointed out - by muslims themselves I might add - the reason for the refusal is a sincere belief that shaking hands is a prelude for impure thoughts and deeds against which there exists no other defense. That is a pretty scary primitive thought - and one for which they refuse to seek professional help.