MAGAThread XV: Because Another

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Crimes against humanity are swiflty prosecuted by US courts.

So taking down highly illegal criminal objects is a crime against humanity?

'highly illegal' is not a legal term. Some things are not 'illegaler' than others. Illegal border crossings are illegal, not 'super-duper extra illegal to the max'.

And to answer your question: yes. Taking down criminal objects can be crimes against humanity. The criminality of a person barely features in crimes against humanity legislation.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Oh I’m sure it’ll make them work slightly harder
Key note slightly as this nothing to deal with the tunnels, boats and planes currently used. Nor does it exactly deal with the eternal fact that smuggling operations have always been good at just sneaking under the noses of customs.
I’d imagine they’d literally need to close the border from everything to even put a real dent in the drug trade

Tunnels are dealt with by explosives.

Boats are dealt with by autocannons.

Planes are dealt with by SAMs.

All of that costs shit tons of money on top of the wall already costing a shit ton of money.

[Bombadil]

You need to demonstrate how that could happen. Go from where we are now to the United States as a war zone because of drug trafficking. Remember to show your work, no skipping steps.

Mexico is almost a collapsed state under control by the Cartels, with massive corruption in it’s politics due to cartel influence and bribery. You think the same thing won’t happen here if we don’t stop them now?

There's no value in ruining the buyer.. it would be like a cocaine seller trashing the house of his best customer. The status quo of Mexico being a slum serving drugs to the kids in the rich neighborhood next door is fine.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Tunnels are dealt with by explosives.

Boats are dealt with by autocannons.

Planes are dealt with by SAMs.

The US-Mexican border is not an active warzone.

Not yet, it isn’t.

[Chan Island]

Ironically, a lot of the illegality at the Mexican border could easily be solved by making drugs legal.

But that's none of my business.

[Northern Davincia]

Ironically, a lot of the illegality at the Mexican border could easily be solved by making drugs legal.

But that's none of my business.

Welcome to the Libertarian Party, how tough are ya'?

[Tarsonis]

Ironically, a lot of the illegality at the Mexican border could easily be solved by making drugs legal.

But that's none of my business.

Gee why didn’t anybody thing of that before. Shit that’s such a great idea, we can end crime TONIGHT, all we gotta do is make everything legal! Take that UN statisticians.


You kidding me dude?

[Valrifell]

Ironically, a lot of the illegality at the Mexican border could easily be solved by making drugs legal.

But that's none of my business.

Gee why didn’t anybody thing of that before. Shit that’s such a great idea, we can end crime TONIGHT, all we gotta do is make everything legal! Take that UN statisticians.


You kidding me dude?

Legalizing (or at least decriminalizing) drugs would take a chunk of the cartel's consumer base away, though.

[Telconi]

Gee why didn’t anybody thing of that before. Shit that’s such a great idea, we can end crime TONIGHT, all we gotta do is make everything legal! Take that UN statisticians.


You kidding me dude?

Legalizing (or at least decriminalizing) drugs would take a chunk of the cartel's consumer base away, though.

Debatable.

[New haven america]

Ironically, a lot of the illegality at the Mexican border could easily be solved by making drugs legal.

But that's none of my business.

Gee why didn’t anybody thing of that before. Shit that’s such a great idea, we can end crime TONIGHT, all we gotta do is make everything legal! Take that UN statisticians.

Nice Strawman you got there. Would be a shame if someone... burned it.

Anyway. Decriminalization would actually help as you'd be removing power from the illegal providers and help those who have drug problems. Just look at states that have legalized pot: They have a ton of money, prisons are becoming less populated due to small time drug users, etc... We can just look at prohibition: Illegalization of alcohol raised crime and gave power to mafia bosses, and legalization lowered crime and gave power back to the state.

Or we could just throw more people into prison for small time use (I mean, it's not like the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world or anything...) and continue to ruin the lives of those who need help all the while lining the pockets of drug dealers and cartels. That seems to be working.

[Tarsonis]

Gee why didn’t anybody thing of that before. Shit that’s such a great idea, we can end crime TONIGHT, all we gotta do is make everything legal! Take that UN statisticians.

Nice Strawman you got there. Would be a shame if someone... burned it.

Anyway. Decriminalization would actually help as you'd be removing power from the illegal providers and help those who have drug problems. Just look at states that have legalized pot: They have a ton of money, prisons are becoming less populated due to small time drug users, etc... We can just look at prohibition: Illegalization of alcohol raised crime and gave power to mafia bosses, and legalization lowered crime and gave power back to the state.

Or we could just throw more people into prison for small time use (I mean, it's not like the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world or anything...) and continue to ruin the lives of those who need help all the while lining the pockets of drug dealers and cartels. That seems to be working.

There’s a BIG difference between de criminalization and legalizagion

[New haven america]

Nice Strawman you got there. Would be a shame if someone... burned it.

Anyway. Decriminalization would actually help as you'd be removing power from the illegal providers and help those who have drug problems. Just look at states that have legalized pot: They have a ton of money, prisons are becoming less populated due to small time drug users, etc... We can just look at prohibition: Illegalization of alcohol raised crime and gave power to mafia bosses, and legalization lowered crime and gave power back to the state.

Or we could just throw more people into prison for small time use (I mean, it's not like the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world or anything...) and continue to ruin the lives of those who need help all the while lining the pockets of drug dealers and cartels. That seems to be working.

There’s a BIG difference between de criminalization and legalizagion

And in this case, either is preferable to neither.

[Vassenor]

Gee why didn’t anybody thing of that before. Shit that’s such a great idea, we can end crime TONIGHT, all we gotta do is make everything legal! Take that UN statisticians.

Nice Strawman you got there. Would be a shame if someone... burned it.

Anyway. Decriminalization would actually help as you'd be removing power from the illegal providers and help those who have drug problems. Just look at states that have legalized pot: They have a ton of money, prisons are becoming less populated due to small time drug users, etc... We can just look at prohibition: Illegalization of alcohol raised crime and gave power to mafia bosses, and legalization lowered crime and gave power back to the state.

Or we could just throw more people into prison for small time use (I mean, it's not like the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world or anything...) and continue to ruin the lives of those who need help all the while lining the pockets of drug dealers and cartels. That seems to be working.

That won't happen though because the PIC won't let the government take away its revenue stream.

[Tarsonis]

There’s a BIG difference between de criminalization and legalizagion

And in this case, either is preferable to neither.

Not really no. Decriminalization maybe, but full legalization? definitely not.

[Andsed]

And in this case, either is preferable to neither.

Not really no. Decriminalization maybe, but full legalization? definitely not.

And what is the problem with making drugs legal? Everyone knows the risk they have and if it was legal it would be easier to regulate.

[Tarsonis]

Not really no. Decriminalization maybe, but full legalization? definitely not.

And what is the problem with making drugs legal? Everyone knows the risk they have and if it was legal it would be easier to regulate.

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc? Legalization would lead to a massive public health crisis, that would make the opioid epidemic look tame.

[Kowani]

And what is the problem with making drugs legal? Everyone knows the risk they have and if it was legal it would be easier to regulate.

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc? Legalization would lead to a massive public health crisis, that would make the opioid epidemic look tame.

Didn’t Portugal try that exact same thing?

[Valrifell]

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc? Legalization would lead to a massive public health crisis, that would make the opioid epidemic look tame.

Didn’t Portugal try that exact same thing?

Decriminalization (I think) and it went fantastic. Addiction rates dropped, iirc.

[Ifreann]

And what is the problem with making drugs legal? Everyone knows the risk they have and if it was legal it would be easier to regulate.

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc?

Alcohol? Tobacco?

Oh wait, those highly addictive substances are already legal.

[Seangoli]

Legalizing (or at least decriminalizing) drugs would take a chunk of the cartel's consumer base away, though.

Debatable.

It may not kill the consumer base, but it would evaporate the black-market demand for the drugs.

[Page]

And what is the problem with making drugs legal? Everyone knows the risk they have and if it was legal it would be easier to regulate.

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc? Legalization would lead to a massive public health crisis, that would make the opioid epidemic look tame.

The vast majority of health problems connected with drugs are linked to the criminalization of drugs. People overdose because they have no way of knowing how much they're taking, they overdose because they don't know if their drugs are laced with another substance, diseases spread because of drugs being consumed with unsafe materials.

There would hardly be an opioid crisis at all if those dependent on opioids could receive chemically pure, precisely measured doses and take their drugs in clean, safe environments.

And on top of all that, locking people up makes their problems even worse. When someone loses their home, their job, and contact with their friends and family because they're incarcerated, it's unsurprisingly a lot more difficult for them to quit taking a drug.

[Tarsonis]

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc? Legalization would lead to a massive public health crisis, that would make the opioid epidemic look tame.

The vast majority of health problems connected with drugs are linked to the criminalization of drugs. People overdose because they have no way of knowing how much they're taking, they overdose because they don't know if their drugs are laced with another substance, diseases spread because of drugs being consumed with unsafe materials.

An issue that would continue even with full legalization, only now these issues would be over represented in the impoverished more than they already are.

There would hardly be an opioid crisis at all if those dependent on opioids could receive chemically pure, precisely measured doses and take their drugs in clean, safe environments.

Not true, because that's exactly what caused the opioid crisis in the first place.

And on top of all that, locking people up makes their problems even worse. When someone loses their home, their job, and contact with their friends and family because they're incarcerated, it's unsurprisingly a lot more difficult for them to quit taking a drug.

Yes, something that would be solved via decriminalization.

[Tarsonis]

Debatable.

It may not kill the consumer base, but it would evaporate the black-market demand for the drugs.

Cartels aren't criminals because they sell drugs, they sell drugs because they're criminals.

[Tarsonis]

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc? Legalization would lead to a massive public health crisis, that would make the opioid epidemic look tame.

Didn’t Portugal try that exact same thing?

No, they decriminalized use, and established specialized courts to deal with abuses. Decriminalization only makes it illegal to use, purchase, and possess limited amounts. Sale, development, distribution, importation and transportation of large quantities is still illegal and policed.

Legalization would make all that legal.

[Tarsonis]

With something like Cannabis? Sure. With highly addictive substances like meth, Heroin, cocaine, etc?

Alcohol? Tobacco?

Oh wait, those highly addictive substances are already legal.

Your apples look a little orange there.

Alcohol isn't highly addictive, it's moderately addictive. This moderation is compounded by high volume use and social function, which leads to more incidents of addiction than say heroin. But chemically its far less addictive. So, if it were legalized addiction would quickly outpace alcohol addiction.

Tobacco isn't addictive, nicotine is, which is an important distinction. For while nicotine is highly addictive the effects of nicotine are drastically less adverse than other substances. Cigarettes are legal but they're also punitively regulated.