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MAGAThread XV: Because Another

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The Emerald Legion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7210
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri May 17, 2019 5:57 pm

Chan Island wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Playing devil's advocate here, though I don't like Trump - as far as I know, this policy was not instituted by Trump or his administration. It was already present.

Yeah, that one is a huge issue.


1) That's just not true though. The entire narrative that Obama instituted the policy is entirely a fabrication. We know this on the surface because it wasn't done under him, and not done under Trump for the first several months of his term, but also because the Trump administration initially boasted it was their idea... for a few days until they realised how incredibly unpopular the policy was. And that is when they started talking about it being an Obama policy. Which was blatantly untrue.

But Trump lies all the time, so nothing new. And nothing new for presidents either, which why I didn't mention it (even though I would rank his undermining of the very idea of an objective truth to be one of his worst sins).

2) It's so depressing how little we talk about it to be honest. It's so repulsive, so evil, and so universally unpopular... yet, rarely does somebody in the media talk about it. And it's really special because while past presidents sold weapons to bad people, they tended to do so secretly (and caused a scandal when caught). And had the excuse of the global struggle of the cold war. And at least had Congress onboard with the plan. Trump doesn't have any of those excuses, yet he did it anyway. Makes you sick.


Obama didn't institute the policy, but the pictures used online of the children in 'cages' are from the Obama era.


The entire idea that they're being made to do fuck all aside from being taken care of is nonsensical. Did the rate increase under the zero tolerance policy? Yes.
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Jebslund
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Fri May 17, 2019 5:57 pm

Chan Island wrote:2) He vetoed a bipartisan bill popular with both sides to stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, who are using American weapons to perpetrate what the UN calls a genocide in Yemen. American weapons keep cropping up stories about the Saudis deliberately targeting civilian buildings like schools, hospitals and a port where about a quarter of the nation's food imports go through, causing mass famine.

This isn't mere aiding of genocide because zeitgeist or politics- he personally took it upon himself to veto a measure that's even popular among his own voters, approved by this bitterly divided Congress, that would have seriously dented the capacity of the perpetrator of genocide and famine to do so.

You know, this really doesn't surprise me as much as I feel it should. Trump fancies himself a businessman. Since when has a businessman as far up his own ass as Trump ever turned down making money in favor of having principles when they didn't have someone forcing them to?
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Duhon
Senator
 
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 5:58 pm

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Duhon wrote:
And you'd have a point here, were Trump a normal politician.

He's not.

Hes not better than most presidents, but he isnt the worst we've had. (Looking at you Buchanan)


Buchanan can't be blamed for not doing anything to save a Union at flashpoint, yo. I mean, how many series of compromises have been nailed down before his time, just to placate the South?

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Fartsniffage
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Posts: 33377
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri May 17, 2019 6:07 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:Obama didn't institute the policy, but the pictures used online of the children in 'cages' are from the Obama era.


Really? I hope you can support that.

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Chan Island
Senator
 
Posts: 3990
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Fri May 17, 2019 6:10 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
1) That's just not true though. The entire narrative that Obama instituted the policy is entirely a fabrication. We know this on the surface because it wasn't done under him, and not done under Trump for the first several months of his term, but also because the Trump administration initially boasted it was their idea... for a few days until they realised how incredibly unpopular the policy was. And that is when they started talking about it being an Obama policy. Which was blatantly untrue.

But Trump lies all the time, so nothing new. And nothing new for presidents either, which why I didn't mention it (even though I would rank his undermining of the very idea of an objective truth to be one of his worst sins).

2) It's so depressing how little we talk about it to be honest. It's so repulsive, so evil, and so universally unpopular... yet, rarely does somebody in the media talk about it. And it's really special because while past presidents sold weapons to bad people, they tended to do so secretly (and caused a scandal when caught). And had the excuse of the global struggle of the cold war. And at least had Congress onboard with the plan. Trump doesn't have any of those excuses, yet he did it anyway. Makes you sick.


Obama didn't institute the policy, but the pictures used online of the children in 'cages' are from the Obama era.


The entire idea that they're being made to do fuck all aside from being taken care of is nonsensical. Did the rate increase under the zero tolerance policy? Yes.


Fuck Obama for doing that then.

Since you acknowledge that taking care of the children is important, might i ask you this: would you consider losing the paperwork (assuming any was even done at all let's be honest) identifying who the parents of thousands of children are before seperating them from each other (itself a disgusting act, but since you don't care about that let's glide right along) to be a gross failure in that duty?
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Major-Tom » Fri May 17, 2019 6:12 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Obama didn't institute the policy, but the pictures used online of the children in 'cages' are from the Obama era.


Really? I hope you can support that.


To be fair, it does appear to be a picture from Arizona circa 2014.

See here.

If the argument here is about the continuation of this barbaric policy, then I'd say it's fair game for anyone to critique both Trump and the Obama administration here, with more emphasis on the former because, well, Trump is the current President.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri May 17, 2019 6:32 pm

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Duhon wrote:
And you'd have a point here, were Trump a normal politician.

He's not.

Hes not better than most presidents, but he isnt the worst we've had. (Looking at you Buchanan)

Honestly, I’d put Andrew Jackson as the worst. Buchanan’s blundering incompetence helped America in the end.
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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thuzbekistan » Fri May 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Duhon wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Hes not better than most presidents, but he isnt the worst we've had. (Looking at you Buchanan)


Buchanan can't be blamed for not doing anything to save a Union at flashpoint, yo. I mean, how many series of compromises have been nailed down before his time, just to placate the South?

He coulda sent federal troops into Kansas and arrested all the government that was jailing people for criticizing slavery and using canon against the elected government
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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thuzbekistan » Fri May 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Kowani wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Hes not better than most presidents, but he isnt the worst we've had. (Looking at you Buchanan)

Honestly, I’d put Andrew Jackson as the worst. Buchanan’s blundering incompetence helped America in the end.

Eh, maybe.
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Fri May 17, 2019 11:44 pm

TBH, deportations are necessary due to overcrowding in the holding-areas for people just simply rushing the border.

Because the numbers being detained are silly, and they need to go someplace.

And even Trump won't send kids to Gitmo.

Roughly 750,000 are expected to be stopped at the border this year alone.
From one detention facility:
“As of this morning, that number was 13,400. A high number for us is 4,000. A crisis level is 6,000. 13,000 is unprecedented,” he said.


Eh, I kinda liked Andrew Jackson. He did straighten-out America's financial institutions and forstalled the stock-market crash a good 100 years.

Banks: "We're too big to fail!"

Andrew J: "Hold my beer. 'Ol pappy J. gonna show you how to respect other people's property..."
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Fri May 17, 2019 11:50 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Fri May 17, 2019 11:53 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:TBH, deportations are necessary due to overcrowding in the holding-areas for people just simply rushing the border.

Because the numbers being detained are silly, and they need to go someplace.

And even Trump won't send kids to Gitmo.

Roughly 750,000 are expected to be stopped at the border this year alone.
From one detention facility:
“As of this morning, that number was 13,400. A high number for us is 4,000. A crisis level is 6,000. 13,000 is unprecedented,” he said.


Eh, I kinda liked Andrew Jackson. He did straighten-out America's financial institutions and forstalled the stock-market crash a good 100 years.

Banks: "We're too big to fail!"

Andrew J: "Hold my beer. 'Ol pappy J. gonna show you how to respect other people's property..."



The Panic of 1837 was a result of his policies and his dismantling of the Bank of the United States, though.
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Sat May 18, 2019 12:09 am

Shrillland wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:TBH, deportations are necessary due to overcrowding in the holding-areas for people just simply rushing the border.

Because the numbers being detained are silly, and they need to go someplace.

And even Trump won't send kids to Gitmo.

Roughly 750,000 are expected to be stopped at the border this year alone.
From one detention facility:


Eh, I kinda liked Andrew Jackson. He did straighten-out America's financial institutions and forstalled the stock-market crash a good 100 years.

Banks: "We're too big to fail!"

Andrew J: "Hold my beer. 'Ol pappy J. gonna show you how to respect other people's property..."



The Panic of 1837 was a result of his policies and his dismantling of the Bank of the United States, though.

Hold.

My.

Ale.

(there's half a wheel of cheese in it for you)

The panic was a footnote, and could have been significantly worse.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Sat May 18, 2019 12:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

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Duhon
Senator
 
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Sat May 18, 2019 12:42 am

Do I go on about how Nick Biddle and his Second Bank was the victim of a paranoiac hit job or no?

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat May 18, 2019 5:54 am

Duhon wrote:Do I go on about how Nick Biddle and his Second Bank was the victim of a paranoiac hit job or no?

Do it. I might learn something
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Gravlen
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Sat May 18, 2019 6:18 am

Chan Island wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Obama didn't institute the policy, but the pictures used online of the children in 'cages' are from the Obama era.


The entire idea that they're being made to do fuck all aside from being taken care of is nonsensical. Did the rate increase under the zero tolerance policy? Yes.


Fuck Obama for doing that then.

Here's some additional context:

The cages aren’t wholly new. During the Obama administration, unaccompanied immigrant children who arrived at the border were kept in them as well, as this tour by Representative Jim McGovern shows. Then-Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said unaccompanied minors would be deported, labeling the practice a deterrent. There was outcry at the time, especially from immigration groups, and the Obama White House was forced to stop detaining families by a court. What is different now is that the children being held are being forcibly separated from their parents at the border. So is the scale of the issue—the Washington Examiner reports that there could be 30,000 such children in custody by August.
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Cekoviu
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sat May 18, 2019 10:19 am

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:TBH, deportations are necessary due to overcrowding in the holding-areas for people just simply rushing the border.

Because the numbers being detained are silly, and they need to go someplace.

And even Trump won't send kids to Gitmo.

Roughly 750,000 are expected to be stopped at the border this year alone.
From one detention facility:
“As of this morning, that number was 13,400. A high number for us is 4,000. A crisis level is 6,000. 13,000 is unprecedented,” he said.


Eh, I kinda liked Andrew Jackson. He did straighten-out America's financial institutions and forstalled the stock-market crash a good 100 years.

Banks: "We're too big to fail!"

Andrew J: "Hold my beer. 'Ol pappy J. gonna show you how to respect other people's property..."

>Forcing a vast number of people out of their homeland to satisfy recent invaders of a different race and religion
Seems like right-wingers shouldn't be into Andrew Jackson, given their rhetoric.
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sat May 18, 2019 10:30 am

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:TBH, deportations are necessary due to overcrowding in the holding-areas for people just simply rushing the border.

Because the numbers being detained are silly, and they need to go someplace.

And even Trump won't send kids to Gitmo.

Roughly 750,000 are expected to be stopped at the border this year alone.
From one detention facility:
“As of this morning, that number was 13,400. A high number for us is 4,000. A crisis level is 6,000. 13,000 is unprecedented,” he said.


Eh, I kinda liked Andrew Jackson. He did straighten-out America's financial institutions and forstalled the stock-market crash a good 100 years.

Banks: "We're too big to fail!"

Andrew J: "Hold my beer. 'Ol pappy J. gonna show you how to respect other people's property..."

The Panic of 1837 laughs at your admiration of Andrew Jackson. The history of the US economy during the 19th and early 20th centuries is one of boom and bust with recessions and depressions followed by recoveries about once every ten to twenty years. The economy didn't get straightened out until the Roosevelt administration.

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Northern Davincia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat May 18, 2019 12:36 pm

Kowani wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Hes not better than most presidents, but he isnt the worst we've had. (Looking at you Buchanan)

Honestly, I’d put Andrew Jackson as the worst. Buchanan’s blundering incompetence helped America in the end.

At the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and obscene levels of destruction.
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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Honestly, I’d put Andrew Jackson as the worst. Buchanan’s blundering incompetence helped America in the end.

At the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and obscene levels of destruction.

Ending slavery was worth the cost.
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Pizza Girl
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Founded: May 08, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pizza Girl » Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"


Donald Trump isn't just the other side. He's a whole new low in American politics.


True.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 18, 2019 3:18 pm

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sat May 18, 2019 3:20 pm



I honestly doubt many will join him.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 18, 2019 3:23 pm

Telconi wrote:


I honestly doubt many will join him.

Probably not. He’s been critical of Trump since day one so many will just write him off. But now the democrats can’t use the “all republicans love Trump unconditionally” line
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat May 18, 2019 3:25 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I honestly doubt many will join him.

Probably not. He’s been critical of Trump since day one so many will just write him off. But now the democrats can’t use the “all republicans love Trump unconditionally” line


It was already blatantly false and they said it anyhow. Propaganda isn't restrained by truth.
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-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
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-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 18, 2019 3:28 pm

Telconi wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Probably not. He’s been critical of Trump since day one so many will just write him off. But now the democrats can’t use the “all republicans love Trump unconditionally” line


It was already blatantly false and they said it anyhow. Propaganda isn't restrained by truth.

True but you can still attempt to knock some facts into people
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>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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