MAGAThread XV: Because Another

[Major-Tom]

Honestly Trump should just go forward with his threat to close the Mexican border. he knows his base will never abandon him. Tariffs on Mexico will solve nothing either

He could nuke the most staunchly Democratic parts of the United States and no one from his base would care.

Yes, this is something I've come to believe in.

...Maybe not no-one from his base, but I see your point. I've accepted that he can say anything, act any which way (barring like, kicking a puppy) and a great deal of people will either support him regardless or, worse yet, claim it's just not true.

That is possibly the largest reason that Dems need to focus on mobilizing the fuck out of independents, left-leaning stay at homes, etc etc in 2020.

[Trumpisslavia]

Waiting till the 2020 elections is too risky, and frankly, too little too late. Ignore for the moment the increasing clamor for impeachment -- why depend on the same electoral mechanisms that failed to stop Trump from unleashing his trumpery on an unwilling world? Too much can happen between now and 2020 that could give that dick an electoral edge, four years, and the end of the world. Fuck that shit and impeach his abysmally authoritarian ass.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Waiting till the 2020 elections is too risky, and frankly, too little too late. Ignore for the moment the increasing clamor for impeachment -- why depend on the same electoral mechanisms that failed to stop Trump from unleashing his trumpery on an unwilling world? Too much can happen between now and 2020 that could give that dick an electoral edge, four years, and the end of the world. Fuck that shit and impeach his abysmally authoritarian ass.

Impeach isn't actually going to happen and you run the very real risk of lighting a fire under the GOP's ass and bringing them out in force while pissing your own base off by failing to kick him out and then losing the election. The Dems are far better off just trying to avoid too awful of a primary and hoping their candidate can do well in the Midwest.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Waiting till the 2020 elections is too risky, and frankly, too little too late. Ignore for the moment the increasing clamor for impeachment -- why depend on the same electoral mechanisms that failed to stop Trump from unleashing his trumpery on an unwilling world? Too much can happen between now and 2020 that could give that dick an electoral edge, four years, and the end of the world. Fuck that shit and impeach his abysmally authoritarian ass.

Impeach isn't actually going to happen and you run the very real risk of lighting a fire under the GOP's ass and bringing them out in force while pissing your own base off by failing to kick him out and then losing the election. The Dems are far better off just trying to avoid too awful of a primary and hoping their candidate can do well in the Midwest.

Punishment for crimes committed should happen whether politically expedient or not.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Impeach isn't actually going to happen and you run the very real risk of lighting a fire under the GOP's ass and bringing them out in force while pissing your own base off by failing to kick him out and then losing the election. The Dems are far better off just trying to avoid too awful of a primary and hoping their candidate can do well in the Midwest.

Punishment for crimes committed should happen whether politically expedient or not.

Maybe in an idealistic utopia sure, but Washington DC is not that. I well and truly think pursuing impeachment is a dangerous strategy for the Dems cuz it's not gonna work and it could backfire in a lot of ways.

[Trumpisslavia]

Waiting till the 2020 elections is too risky, and frankly, too little too late. Ignore for the moment the increasing clamor for impeachment -- why depend on the same electoral mechanisms that failed to stop Trump from unleashing his trumpery on an unwilling world? Too much can happen between now and 2020 that could give that dick an electoral edge, four years, and the end of the world. Fuck that shit and impeach his abysmally authoritarian ass.

Impeach isn't actually going to happen and you run the very real risk of lighting a fire under the GOP's ass and bringing them out in force while pissing your own base off by failing to kick him out and then losing the election. The Dems are far better off just trying to avoid too awful of a primary and hoping their candidate can do well in the Midwest.

And any impeachment proceedings, broadcast live from commencement to adjournment, through all networks (preferably without commercial breaks and without interspersed talking heads opining about the whole thing), won't do the same to Dem asses?

Lest we forget, they are still the majority, the electorate who voted for Trump the minority, his base a minority within that minority. Any such proceedings will show Trump's innumerable sins, will make some of his electorate break off from him, convinced those stragglers that Trump is not in their besr interests.

Any acquittal will therefore be despite the abundance of evidence provided, not to mention despite the tide of public opinion; such a counterfactual decision will only serve to fuel electoral opposition to Trump come November 2020. This is of course assuming that asshole doesn't resort to underhanded methods to stay in power, up to and including what I suggested above.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Impeach isn't actually going to happen and you run the very real risk of lighting a fire under the GOP's ass and bringing them out in force while pissing your own base off by failing to kick him out and then losing the election. The Dems are far better off just trying to avoid too awful of a primary and hoping their candidate can do well in the Midwest.

And any impeachment proceedings, broadcast live from commencement to adjournment, through all networks (preferably without commercial breaks and without interspersed talking heads opining about the whole thing), won't do the same to Dem asses?

Lest we forget, they are still the majority, the electorate who voted for Trump the minority, his base a minority within that minority. Any such proceedings will show Trump's innumerable sins, will make some of his electorate break off from him, convinced those stragglers that Trump is not in their besr interests.

Any acquittal will therefore be despite the abundance of evidence provided, not to mention despite the tide of public opinion; such a counterfactual decision will only serve to fuel electoral opposition to Trump come November 2020. This is of course assuming that asshole doesn't resort to underhanded methods to stay in power, up to and including what I suggested above.

Oh yeah it'll fire up the Dem base during the hearings, but I don't really think it's a stretch to imagine some younger or more left leaning voters could become really jaded by the failure of such a thing to actually remove Trump.

I would also like to remind you that we've all spent the last several years being bombarded non-stop 24/7 by talking heads about Trumps innumerable sins. You're not really going to change minds at this point. Either you're already against him, you're still with him or you're so jaded you just don't give a shit. Just try to find a good candidate and try to beat him in 2020, impeachment just plays into his hands imo.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Punishment for crimes committed should happen whether politically expedient or not.

Maybe in an idealistic utopia sure, but Washington DC is not that. I well and truly think pursuing impeachment is a dangerous strategy for the Dems cuz it's not gonna work and it could backfire in a lot of ways.

It's a dangerous strategy, for sure. It is also the right thing to do. We don't now how impeachment proceedings will colour the 2020 race, or the DC political landscape. However, if the Dems don't move forward with impeachment, they are also sending a message: that if your party is stubborn enough, you are above the rule of law, and you can basically do whatever.

A criminal investigation has found that Trump would have been tried for obstruction of justice if he had not been president. He has committed crimes. Creating impunity for a sitting president will be far more dangerous for the nation than starting impeachment procedures will be.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Is all this tariff money going straight into one of Trump's own accounts?

[Ifreann]

And any impeachment proceedings, broadcast live from commencement to adjournment, through all networks (preferably without commercial breaks and without interspersed talking heads opining about the whole thing), won't do the same to Dem asses?

Lest we forget, they are still the majority, the electorate who voted for Trump the minority, his base a minority within that minority. Any such proceedings will show Trump's innumerable sins, will make some of his electorate break off from him, convinced those stragglers that Trump is not in their besr interests.

Any acquittal will therefore be despite the abundance of evidence provided, not to mention despite the tide of public opinion; such a counterfactual decision will only serve to fuel electoral opposition to Trump come November 2020. This is of course assuming that asshole doesn't resort to underhanded methods to stay in power, up to and including what I suggested above.

Oh yeah it'll fire up the Dem base during the hearings, but I don't really think it's a stretch to imagine some younger or more left leaning voters could become really jaded by the failure of such a thing to actually remove Trump.

On the other hand, could make for great campaign material. Republicans protected Trump from impeachment [scary shots of Mitch McConnell being a bollocks] but they can't protect him from your vote.

[Tarsonis]

Impeach isn't actually going to happen and you run the very real risk of lighting a fire under the GOP's ass and bringing them out in force while pissing your own base off by failing to kick him out and then losing the election. The Dems are far better off just trying to avoid too awful of a primary and hoping their candidate can do well in the Midwest.

And any impeachment proceedings, broadcast live from commencement to adjournment, through all networks (preferably without commercial breaks and without interspersed talking heads opining about the whole thing), won't do the same to Dem asses?

Lest we forget, they are still the majority, the electorate who voted for Trump the minority, his base a minority within that minority. Any such proceedings will show Trump's innumerable sins, will make some of his electorate break off from him, convinced those stragglers that Trump is not in their besr interests.

Any acquittal will therefore be despite the abundance of evidence provided, not to mention despite the tide of public opinion; such a counterfactual decision will only serve to fuel electoral opposition to Trump come November 2020. This is of course assuming that asshole doesn't resort to underhanded methods to stay in power, up to and including what I suggested above.

Not without evidence. Unless there's actual airtight evidence to produce, it'll just turn into a shit show of the Democrats desperation. It'll alienate moderate and independents, and going into november the only base the Dems will have fired up is Justice Democrats who are a small small minority. Impeachment is a gamble, which is why Pelosi isn't doing it.

[Valrifell]

Oh yeah it'll fire up the Dem base during the hearings, but I don't really think it's a stretch to imagine some younger or more left leaning voters could become really jaded by the failure of such a thing to actually remove Trump.

On the other hand, could make for great campaign material. Republicans protected Trump from impeachment [scary shots of Mitch McConnell being a bollocks] but they can't protect him from your vote.

[McConnell cackles forebodingly as lightning strikes in the distance]

[Thuzbekistan]

and it will end with a collapse of the US economy if he keeps this up. A trade war with China isn't winnable no matter how much you think it is.

Actually a trade war with China is winnable if done right. We import more than we export to them. We can crunch them before they crunch us.

However we also need to have our allies like Mexico, Canada, and the EU follow suit and also put tariffs on China. That’s something Trump has neglected to do

I agree

[San Lumen]

Actually a trade war with China is winnable if done right. We import more than we export to them. We can crunch them before they crunch us.

However we also need to have our allies like Mexico, Canada, and the EU follow suit and also put tariffs on China. That’s something Trump has neglected to do

I agree

Mexico, Canada and the eu aren’t placing tariffs on China because they know unlike Trump their citizens pay it therefore a one on one trade war is unwinnable

[Trumpisslavia]

And any impeachment proceedings, broadcast live from commencement to adjournment, through all networks (preferably without commercial breaks and without interspersed talking heads opining about the whole thing), won't do the same to Dem asses?

Lest we forget, they are still the majority, the electorate who voted for Trump the minority, his base a minority within that minority. Any such proceedings will show Trump's innumerable sins, will make some of his electorate break off from him, convinced those stragglers that Trump is not in their besr interests.

Any acquittal will therefore be despite the abundance of evidence provided, not to mention despite the tide of public opinion; such a counterfactual decision will only serve to fuel electoral opposition to Trump come November 2020. This is of course assuming that asshole doesn't resort to underhanded methods to stay in power, up to and including what I suggested above.

Not without evidence. Unless there's actual airtight evidence to produce, it'll just turn into a shit show of the Democrats desperation. It'll alienate moderate and independents, and going into november the only base the Dems will have fired up is Justice Democrats who are a small small minority. Impeachment is a gamble, which is why Pelosi isn't doing it.

In lieu of an answer (and food) I give you this.

[Saiwania]

Dunno what else you call becoming a soldier for an organization that has openly announced it is at war with the government of the United States of America. Guess we should've just arrested the American Nazis who joined the Wehrmacht in WW2.

There weren't enough Americans who were able and willing to defect to the Axis to create a George Washington Legion within the military of the Third Reich. But as it just so happens, Martin James Monti was an American who got to join the Waffen SS. I'm most impressed with the Wehrmacht in general, they still brought the Allied Powers to their knees until 1942 and conquered nearly all of Europe with impunity for a time.

I have more respect for Monti in that at least he was uniformed and National Socialism back then, was a revolutionary cause that people saw as worthy, whether people today like it or not. I don't see it as much different from the Manhatten Project Communists who gave the Soviets nuclear secrets. They're the real traitors in my view.

Anwar al-Awlaki did what he did only for religion, of which- is nothing new. He's worse than a Communist from my perspective, and I'm glad Special Forces weren't risked to try to capture him just because he was a US citizen at one time.

[Thuzbekistan]

I agree

Mexico, Canada and the eu aren’t placing tariffs on China because they know unlike Trump their citizens pay it therefore a one on one trade war is unwinnable

Citizens pay a lot of things, but tariffs and protective trade practices are sometimes necessary. Especially against nations which manipulate their currency and have shotty labor laws that put our manufacturers at a disadvantage. China also doesnt follow environmental norms of developed countries and is the largest contributor to various pollutants. This is another way they put us at a disadvantage. They dont listen to the international community, so sanction is the only recourse. If trump was a better statesman, it would be easy. But I think he is right to start it and that we can at the very least force China to talks on our terms

[Duhon]

Dunno what else you call becoming a soldier for an organization that has openly announced it is at war with the government of the United States of America. Guess we should've just arrested the American Nazis who joined the Wehrmacht in WW2.

There weren't enough Americans who were able and willing to defect to the Axis to create a George Washington Legion within the military of the Third Reich. But as it just so happens, Martin James Monti was an American who got to join the Waffen SS. I'm most impressed with the Wehrmacht in general, they still brought the Allied Powers to their knees until 1942 and conquered nearly all of Europe with impunity for a time.

I have more respect for Monti in that at least he was uniformed and National Socialism back then, was a revolutionary cause that people saw as worthy, whether people today like it or not. I don't see it as much different from the Manhatten Project Communists who gave the Soviets nuclear secrets. They're the real traitors in my view.

Anwar al-Awlaki did what he did only for religion, of which- is nothing new. He's worse than a Communist from my perspective, and I'm glad Special Forces weren't risked to try to capture him just because he was a US citizen at one time.

Switched accounts and the fuck?

[The Emerald Legion]

Punishment for crimes committed should happen whether politically expedient or not.

Maybe in an idealistic utopia sure, but Washington DC is not that. I well and truly think pursuing impeachment is a dangerous strategy for the Dems cuz it's not gonna work and it could backfire in a lot of ways.

According to this guy, unless they impeach, the Democrats are fucked.

And they can't successfully impeach. So....

[Duhon]

Sai's obsession aside, this Daily Beast lead regarding the adding of a citizenship question to the 2020 census doesn't mince words at all:

A secret trove of documents was revealed Thursday showing that the Trump administration added a citizenship question to the 2020 census as part of a right-wing plan to change how voting districts are drawn in the United States—a plan hatched to benefit “non-Hispanic whites.”

This is worse than anyone thought. This is white supremacy.

Now, you might think the above claim is overblown, and I did too at first, but then I checked the first link to appear in the article, which brought me to the original documents obtained by USA Today, which you can peruse here.

[Valrifell]

Maybe in an idealistic utopia sure, but Washington DC is not that. I well and truly think pursuing impeachment is a dangerous strategy for the Dems cuz it's not gonna work and it could backfire in a lot of ways.

According to this guy, unless they impeach, the Democrats are fucked.

And they can't successfully impeach. So....

Mmm, love the singular opinion of some rando.

[Duhon]

According to this guy, unless they impeach, the Democrats are fucked.

And they can't successfully impeach. So....

Mmm, love the singular opinion of some rando.

B-but he's predicted who gets elected for nine presidential elections straight! He can't be wrong!

[Valrifell]

Mmm, love the singular opinion of some rando.

B-but he's predicted who gets elected for nine presidential elections straight! He can't be wrong!

What? Like it's hard when a few of those have been easy call blowouts?

[Shrillland]

Mmm, love the singular opinion of some rando.

B-but he's predicted who gets elected for nine presidential elections straight! He can't be wrong!

I've looked at a lot of his predictions over the years...he's actually got a pretty good accuracy rate.

[Thermodolia]

Maybe in an idealistic utopia sure, but Washington DC is not that. I well and truly think pursuing impeachment is a dangerous strategy for the Dems cuz it's not gonna work and it could backfire in a lot of ways.

According to this guy, unless they impeach, the Democrats are fucked.

And they can't successfully impeach. So....

Except the guy says that democrats must begin impeachment proceedings. Not successfully impeach trump