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MAGAThread XV: Because Another

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:08 pm

Telconi wrote:
Gormwood wrote:You don't find the lack of qualificatiom to be a red flag for a position, which is par for the course on your partisan evasion.


What lack of qualification? You just say he's unqualified, without explaining which qualifications he lacks.

Economists Forecast Stephen Moore Wouldn't Be Good For Fed Post

"Almost universally, economists have spoken out and said this is not a fit candidate for a board position," said William Luther, who directs the Sound Money Project at the American Institute for Economic Research.

Moore has spent decades opining on economics — at the conservative Heritage Foundation, on the editorial pages of The Wall Street Journal and on cable TV.

"I've been a economic policy person in Washington for well over 30 years," Moore told NPR's Morning Edition. "So I do think that I have probably more experience in this game than many, many other people and in fact a lot of the people who have served on the Federal Reserve Board."

It's precisely that track record that worries many economists.

"More than possibly any other economist in modern America, he has a track record of getting the big issues wrong," said Justin Wolfers of the University of Michigan. "Not just occasionally but time after time."

During the Great Recession, for example, Moore complained that the Fed's efforts to prop up the economy with low interest rates would spark runaway inflation. That never materialized. Today, with unemployment below 4 percent, Moore is making the opposite case, warning that by raising interest rates last year, the Fed was causing a dangerous drop in prices, or deflation.

That prompted a testy exchange in December on CNN with Washington Post columnist Catherine Rampell, who pointed out — correctly — that none of the indicators watched by the Fed show deflation.

Critics say that Moore's counterintuitive prescriptions for Fed policy — tight money in bad times, loose money in good — seem to be guided more by who's in the White House than any objective measure of the economy.

"If your goal is to stabilize the macroeconomy, then Stephen Moore's policies go in exactly the wrong direction," said Luther of the American Institute for Economic Research. "If instead your goal is to push Democrats out of office and get Republicans re-elected, then Stephen Moore's policies make perfect sense."

Opponents say that this partisan bent could jeopardize the Fed's reputation for independence and apolitical action.

Of course you will move the goalpost with another vague and evasive apologism.
Last edited by Gormwood on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ngelmish
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Postby Ngelmish » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:20 pm

Telconi wrote:
Ngelmish wrote:
You're conflating "approval of the president's policies" with "vote for the president's nominee because they're the president's nominee even if there's public evidence that this individual nominee is unqualified for this particular position." Those two aren't actually the same thing


And what makes him unqualified?


You're the one who asserted that support for a presidential nominee is contingent on support for the president. It's a blanket statement that sidesteps there being any other concerns or rationale.

However, in case you're interested in lying about the implication, we can start by looking at where the relevant quote thread begins

Telconi wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:They'll approve nominees that they're told to like.


And what's wrong with that?


Voting for nominees that one is told to like, irrespective of other concerns, you imply here, is not problematical. Therefore, we'll have to assume that you're conflating a standard of being told to like a nominee (i.e. support for the president's policy), with there being no reasons to oppose said nominee despite supporting the president's policy.

Telconi wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
If that were the only point of a representative, then we ought to cut out the middleman. No, part of the argument for representative democracy is that you trust your rep to make policy for the betterment of the community and not necessarily for the majority opinion. Telling them how to vote is not letting them vote for the betterment or representation of their constituents, it's making them vote because the President said so.


Given the situation, is there a difference?


We can even go one better, where in this case, you make the conflation more specific.

None of this demonstrates that this particular nominee is unqualified (although he is), but it is an excellent example of the fact that you conflated two separate ideas and then ludicrously tried to deny it.
Last edited by Ngelmish on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:12 pm

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:30 pm

New haven america wrote:


Further evidence that geography should be it's own separate (mandatory) class.
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:35 pm

New haven america wrote:


Mexico here
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:44 pm

I know Gorm's posted an article regarding Stephen Moore, but I find it not detailed enough, so here's another article, this time from Bloomberg's Noah Smith:

President Donald Trump has said that he plans to nominate Stephen Moore, a writer and policy analyst, for a position on the Federal Reserve Board. This isn't a good choice. Moore’s appointment demonstrates Trump’s increasing politicization of key government functions, and the valuation of loyalty and ideology over expertise and judgment.

Moore has been a think tank researcher and pundit for most of his career, having worked at the conservative Heritage Foundation and the libertarian Cato Institute. He served as chief economist for the former, though he is not a trained academic economist (he has a Master’s in economics from George Mason University). He has co-founded multiple right-leaning lobbying groups, such as the Club for Growth and the Free Enterprise Fund, as well as serving on the Wall Street Journal’s editorial board. At every stage, he has advocated tirelessly for conservative policies -- tax cuts, lower government spending and deregulation.

Moore has made a career of what law professor James Kwak calls “economism” -- a mix of simplistic economic models, convenient assumptions and rhetoric designed to make it appear as if economics provides scientific support for conservative policy priorities. There are many examples where wishful thinking appears to have distorted his assessments of economic conditions.

In 2015, for example, he claimed that tax cuts in North Carolina had caused a decline in the unemployment rate. But as Paul Krugman quickly pointed out, the reduction in unemployment was no greater than in the country as a whole, and was in large part driven by workers dropping out the labor force.

In 2012, Moore claimed that federal workers were paid 50 percent more than comparable private-sector workers, because their wages are 2 percent higher and their benefits are 48 percent higher. This, of course, is a math error -- the pay difference is not the sum of the differences in wages and benefits, but their weighted average, and is thus much smaller than Moore argued.

As a commentator, Moore has regularly made dubious economic claims, such as the assertion that 2015 saw the “strongest economy in 20 years” (the late 1990s would beg to differ) or that the deficit was $1 trillion in 2017 (it was slightly more than half of that). When writing about the effects of state-level tax cuts on employment in 2014, Moore overstated recent job gains in low-tax states and understated the gains in high-tax states. He has also made a number of unfounded claims regarding the outcomes of the Affordable Care Act.

One of Moore’s biggest departures from the economic consensus is his belief that tax cuts mostly or completely pay for themselves, through increased economic growth. This belief, sometimes cited by advocates of supply-side economics, is shared by almost no academic economists.

In 2005, Moore claimed that President Ronald Reagan’s tax cuts had caused tax revenue to double. But adjusted for inflation and population growth, the increase was only about 18 percent.

Recently, Moore wrote an opinion piece declaring that Trump’s corporate tax cut is paying for itself. But despite the growing economy, federal tax revenue fell by about 4 percent between the fourth quarter of 2017, when the tax cut was passed, and the third quarter of 2018:

In recent years, Moore has attached himself to Donald Trump, serving on the president’s economic advisory team during the 2016 campaign. In December, after Trump’s criticism of Fed Chairman Jerome Powell (himself a Trump appointee) during a stock market decline, Moore called for Powell to resign. Trump and Moore both argued that Powell had kept interest rates too high.

Thus, as a member of the Fed, Moore can be expected to push for interest rates to be kept low. A cynical interpretation of Moore’s desire for low interest rates would be that he wants to juice the economy and stock market in order to make the president look good politically, so that Trump will be able to carry out more tax cuts.

But even if this is wrong, Moore’s record as an economic commentator is cause for concern. His seeming willingness to interpret any and all economic data so as to tell a story favorable to tax cuts and unfavorable to government spending marks him more as an ideologically motivated pundit than a true economist. That isn't the kind of person that should be serving on the board of an independent central bank.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:00 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Republicans will rubber stamp him as outrageous as it is


Wait, you mean to tell me legislators will approve nominees they like? Say it ain't so!!!


Curiosity question: When have the democrats or even the GOP have nominated somebody as unqualified as Moore?

donnie doesn't really bring in the best people. He has had some good people; they seem to run for the doors after awhile.....
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:59 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Wait, you mean to tell me legislators will approve nominees they like? Say it ain't so!!!


Curiosity question: When have the democrats or even the GOP have nominated somebody as unqualified as Moore?

donnie doesn't really bring in the best people. He has had some good people; they seem to run for the doors after awhile.....


Merrick Garland comes to mind...
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:01 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Curiosity question: When have the democrats or even the GOP have nominated somebody as unqualified as Moore?

donnie doesn't really bring in the best people. He has had some good people; they seem to run for the doors after awhile.....


Merrick Garland comes to mind...


Garland? Ok. How was he not qualified?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:06 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Merrick Garland comes to mind...


Garland? Ok. How was he not qualified?


Well evidently "Believing things I don't like" is a disqualifying trait, so we'll go with that.
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"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:09 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Garland? Ok. How was he not qualified?


Well evidently "Believing things I don't like" is a disqualifying trait, so we'll go with that.


Ah well disliking a person is not really a measure of qualifications.

I didn't like Scalia. Was he qualified? Sure.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:14 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Well evidently "Believing things I don't like" is a disqualifying trait, so we'll go with that.


Ah well disliking a person is not really a measure of qualifications.

I didn't like Scalia. Was he qualified? Sure.


So far as I can tell, that's people's problem with Moore.
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PRO:
-Weapons Rights
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-Religious Freedom
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-Life
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-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
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-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

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Seangoli
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:16 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Garland? Ok. How was he not qualified?


Well evidently "Believing things I don't like" is a disqualifying trait, so we'll go with that.


No, but "believing in things that have been proven factually incorrect to the point of contradicting his own premises when it serves his own beliefs" is.
Last edited by Seangoli on Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:37 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Ah well disliking a person is not really a measure of qualifications.

I didn't like Scalia. Was he qualified? Sure.


So far as I can tell, that's people's problem with Moore.


I am sure they are out there. His lack of knowledge over the Federal Reserve and monetary policy is a concern. His inability to explain fiscal theories is another concern.

There are many conservative economists out there who would be qualified for the job. This guy is probably getting the nod because donnie heard he wrote about about him.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Gormwood
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Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:31 am

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Curiosity question: When have the democrats or even the GOP have nominated somebody as unqualified as Moore?

donnie doesn't really bring in the best people. He has had some good people; they seem to run for the doors after awhile.....


Merrick Garland comes to mind...

So what exactly made Garland "unqualified" in specific details? Articles on Moore's lack of qualifications were cited so it's only fair you provide the same for Garland, assuming of course you're not just being disingenuous again for partisan reasons.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:34 am

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Ah well disliking a person is not really a measure of qualifications.

I didn't like Scalia. Was he qualified? Sure.


So far as I can tell, that's people's problem with Moore.


So you didn't read the articles outling economists objections to the candidates or his flip flopping on economic issues depending on who's in charge?

You know, repeating the same point and insisting you are correct does not make it so. You don't have a substantial rebuttal.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:36 am

Valrifell wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So far as I can tell, that's people's problem with Moore.


So you didn't read the articles outling economists objections to the candidates or his flip flopping on economic issues depending on who's in charge?

You know, repeating the same point and insisting you are correct does not make it so. You don't have a substantial rebuttal.

Just partisan evasion so far.
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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:48 am

Gormwood wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
So you didn't read the articles outling economists objections to the candidates or his flip flopping on economic issues depending on who's in charge?

You know, repeating the same point and insisting you are correct does not make it so. You don't have a substantial rebuttal.

Just partisan evasion so far.

Par for the course tbh. So many people are insisting that anyone opposing anything the president does is just partisan politics getting in the way of progress because [mumble mumble], ignoring the fact that they spent the better part of a decade insisting that literally everything of significance Obama tried to do was terrible and should be opposed for [mumble mumble].
I mean, for God's sake, Ted Cruz once filibustered against Obamacare by doing a dramatic reading of Green Eggs and Ham, and yet we're supposed to instantly agree with everything Trump does and not even attempt to question it.

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Frostopia
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Postby Frostopia » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:51 am

I'm from Australia and I wish we had a leader like Donald Trump. He's working so hard to, in his mind, deliver on all the needs of his people. I'm so happy for him. Hes a very good man fighting a very evil empire almost single handedly. I'm so proud to witness him.

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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:56 am

Frostopia wrote:I'm from Australia and I wish we had a leader like Donald Trump. He's working so hard to, in his mind, deliver on all the needs of his people. I'm so happy for him. Hes a very good man fighting a very evil empire almost single handedly. I'm so proud to witness him.

I'm gonna have to ask you what the hell you're talking about because absolutely none of that is true. He's not delivering on the needs of anyone outside his base, he's not fighting any empire (by the way, what were you referring to here?), and the only reason he's important is because he has an entire country backing him up, so he's doing nothing single-handedly.

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Seangoli
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:00 am

Gormwood wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Merrick Garland comes to mind...

So what exactly made Garland "unqualified" in specific details? Articles on Moore's lack of qualifications were cited so it's only fair you provide the same for Garland, assuming of course you're not just being disingenuous again for partisan reasons.



Things I learned today: Merrick Garland, who has started practicing law in the 70s, clerked under Justice Brennan, was an assistant to the Attorney General, was a prosecutor and personal lawyer at different times until 1995, has served on a federal Appeals court for 20 years since then, is unqualified.

Riiiiiiight.
Last edited by Seangoli on Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Vassenor » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:22 am

Frostopia wrote:I'm from Australia and I wish we had a leader like Donald Trump. He's working so hard to, in his mind, deliver on all the needs of his people. I'm so happy for him. Hes a very good man fighting a very evil empire almost single handedly. I'm so proud to witness him.


So what has he actually done in that regard? Screaming about immigrants and Muslims doesn't really deliver on needs.
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Postby Zapato » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:40 am

Frostopia wrote:I'm from Australia and I wish we had a leader like Donald Trump. He's working so hard to, in his mind, deliver on all the needs of his people. I'm so happy for him. Hes a very good man fighting a very evil empire almost single handedly. I'm so proud to witness him.

April fools day, heh :lol:


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*Lock*

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Holy Tedalonia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:00 am

Vassenor wrote:
Frostopia wrote:I'm from Australia and I wish we had a leader like Donald Trump. He's working so hard to, in his mind, deliver on all the needs of his people. I'm so happy for him. Hes a very good man fighting a very evil empire almost single handedly. I'm so proud to witness him.


So what has he actually done in that regard? Screaming about immigrants and Muslims doesn't really deliver on needs.

Vass, you ought to check the date my friend. You’ve been so anti trump for so long, its like you cant take a joke anymore. :p
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Valrifell
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:03 am

Holy Tedalonia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So what has he actually done in that regard? Screaming about immigrants and Muslims doesn't really deliver on needs.

Vass, you ought to check the date my friend. You’ve been so anti trump for so long, its like you cant take a joke anymore. :p


To be fair, it's a five-post-old nation, I don't think we can reasonably establish that they're kidding.

I mean, we hope they are, but still.
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