Dunkirk lets people ride the bus for free, people are happy

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Let me check if I can find a source with numbers for you and I'll post it.

EDIT: this link seems to have some of the info that you're interested in. You will probably understand this all better than I do.

I posted that site earlier. Their budget is tiny, 37 million €. I have several individual projects that are larger.

But what is interesting is they see it as a way to boost the urban areas in the center of dunkirk. Weekend ridership numbers seem to imply that in dunkirk anyway its working. I would be curious to see if there is an effect on housing prices and employment numbers in dunkirk over the next year or two.

Brain dried and didn't read follow up posts.

I do recall reading that the fare was really a very small part of the transportation budget so it was easy to do away with it.

[Ethel mermania]

I posted that site earlier. Their budget is tiny, 37 million €. I have several individual projects that are larger.

But what is interesting is they see it as a way to boost the urban areas in the center of dunkirk. Weekend ridership numbers seem to imply that in dunkirk anyway its working. I would be curious to see if there is an effect on housing prices and employment numbers in dunkirk over the next year or two.

Brain dried and didn't read follow up posts.

I do recall reading that the fare was really a very small part of the transportation budget so it was easy to do away with it.

Easy to do away with, but with expanding demand they are adding buses and drivers. For us its unrealistic, but as a transit initiative, to help mobility of folks who cant drive, drive people back into downtown areas, and to combat "global warming" it's a very interesting concept well worth studying.

[Olerand]

Brain dried and didn't read follow up posts.

I do recall reading that the fare was really a very small part of the transportation budget so it was easy to do away with it.

Easy to do away with, but with expanding demand they are adding buses and drivers. For us its unrealistic, but as a transit initiative, to help mobility of folks who cant drive, drive people back into downtown areas, and to combat "global warming" it's a very interesting concept well worth studying.

Most such proposals in France are to reinvigorate the struggling downtown areas. Which is partially why Paris doesn't need this.

[Ethel mermania]

Easy to do away with, but with expanding demand they are adding buses and drivers. For us its unrealistic, but as a transit initiative, to help mobility of folks who cant drive, drive people back into downtown areas, and to combat "global warming" it's a very interesting concept well worth studying.

Most such proposals in France are to reinvigorate the struggling downtown areas. Which is partially why Paris doesn't need this.

In Paris, is fare evasion much of an issue? Here in NYC it is.

[Thermodolia]

Ever heard of racism?

Racism is irrelevant because it happens to all people regardless of their ethnicity. There are no selective "white trash bus lines" in America, which if it were down to "blacks", you would assume those would exist to cater to the poor whites. They don't. It's broadly classist, so "lack of financial viability". The fact that you have large communities of suburban poor who do not contribute large sums per capita, and require more money than the more densely populated, higher-income areas of the urban core, means that public transportation is a bit of a wash in general in America. If you live in suburbs and have enough money to make public transport you also have a car to transport yourself. If you live in the inner city, you make enough money period, because the transport lines are short and the number of people is high; the per capita requirement of income is reduced to below even poverty level.

Unless you're so generous you'd want to contribute to public transport you will never see nor use in your taxes, which would be a hard sell to anyone making six figures a year, it ain't happening if you're living in a poor suburb.

Poor people in suburbs use Uber or Lyft, not public bus lines.

You’re little spiel is nice and all but doesn’t actually mean shit.

Racism plays a major part across the south, especially in my hometown, as to why Transit doesn’t go places. Namely the suburbs didn’t want the public transport system to go into the suburbs because blacks are icky apparently.

Now public transport is used in the suburbs in several cities. It’s one of the ways people get into cities. In Atlanta the suburbs have bus networks which run across several counties.

[The Republic of Fore]

Seems like a great policy, more cities should try this. Sadly the buses where I live often end up being slower than walking.

[Gallia-]

Racism is irrelevant because it happens to all people regardless of their ethnicity. There are no selective "white trash bus lines" in America, which if it were down to "blacks", you would assume those would exist to cater to the poor whites. They don't. It's broadly classist, so "lack of financial viability". The fact that you have large communities of suburban poor who do not contribute large sums per capita, and require more money than the more densely populated, higher-income areas of the urban core, means that public transportation is a bit of a wash in general in America. If you live in suburbs and have enough money to make public transport you also have a car to transport yourself. If you live in the inner city, you make enough money period, because the transport lines are short and the number of people is high; the per capita requirement of income is reduced to below even poverty level.

Unless you're so generous you'd want to contribute to public transport you will never see nor use in your taxes, which would be a hard sell to anyone making six figures a year, it ain't happening if you're living in a poor suburb.

Poor people in suburbs use Uber or Lyft, not public bus lines.

You’re little spiel is nice and all but doesn’t actually mean shit.

Prove it.

Oh, you can't. Because it isn't true.

Racism plays a major part across the south, especially in my hometown, as to why Transit doesn’t go places. Namely the suburbs didn’t want the public transport system to go into the suburbs because blacks are icky apparently.

If racism mattered they would just pick up poor white people. But they don't. Because it's classism, not racism, that is the motivating factor.

The fact that black people are generally poverty line or lower in income is mostly coincidental in this case. It wouldn't change if you swapped all the black people with Hmong or West Virginians.

[Hakons]

Well, it's not "free," but if it just takes shifting tax dollars around this is a very good change. No fare transportation means less of a bite out of poormen's budgets, more people using public transit, less emissions, and maybe even a closer community as more people interact on the buses/trains.

[The New California Republic]

Well, it's not "free," but if it just takes shifting tax dollars around this is a very good change. No fare transportation means less of a bite out of poormen's budgets, more people using public transit, less emissions, and maybe even a closer community as more people interact on the buses/trains.

I've always thought that having some form of subsidised urban transportation makes sound economic sense that bridges the wealth divide. I'd have the London Underground so heavily subsidised that fares would either be "free" or much lower than today's fares. Come to think of it, the London buses are such a nightmare to traverse that there is probably a greater case for those being "free"...

[Bolkenia]

Well I'm not paying taxes yet and I'm pretty happy to be able to use the bus for free.

[Kowani]

You’re little spiel is nice and all but doesn’t actually mean shit.

Prove it.

Oh, you can't. Because it isn't true.

Racism plays a major part across the south, especially in my hometown, as to why Transit doesn’t go places. Namely the suburbs didn’t want the public transport system to go into the suburbs because blacks are icky apparently.

If racism mattered they would just pick up poor white people. But they don't. Because it's classism, not racism, that is the motivating factor.

The fact that black people are generally poverty line or lower in income is mostly coincidental in this case. It wouldn't change if you swapped all the black people with Hmong or West Virginians.

It’s not like the bus lines mostly avoid predominantly black neighborhoods...

[Crookfur]

Well, it's not "free," but if it just takes shifting tax dollars around this is a very good change. No fare transportation means less of a bite out of poormen's budgets, more people using public transit, less emissions, and maybe even a closer community as more people interact on the buses/trains.

I've always thought that having some form of subsidised urban transportation makes sound economic sense that bridges the wealth divide. I'd have the London Underground so heavily subsidised that fares would either be "free" or much lower than today's fares. Come to think of it, the London buses are such a nightmare to traverse that there is probably a greater case for those being "free"...

Heck London is positively cheap to get around if your journey requires more than one type of public transport.
Well that's compared to the situation in Glasgow where you have several different bus companies plus rail and underground that also charge separately.

On the other hand in Scotland we do have the over 60s and disabled free bus passes.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I’m sure this’ll help when the Germans arrive for vacation

[The New California Republic]

I've always thought that having some form of subsidised urban transportation makes sound economic sense that bridges the wealth divide. I'd have the London Underground so heavily subsidised that fares would either be "free" or much lower than today's fares. Come to think of it, the London buses are such a nightmare to traverse that there is probably a greater case for those being "free"...

Heck London is positively cheap to get around if your journey requires more than one type of public transport.
Well that's compared to the situation in Glasgow where you have several different bus companies plus rail and underground that also charge separately.

On the other hand in Scotland we do have the over 60s and disabled free bus passes.

Indeed we do.

[Gallia-]

Prove it.

Oh, you can't. Because it isn't true.



If racism mattered they would just pick up poor white people. But they don't. Because it's classism, not racism, that is the motivating factor.

The fact that black people are generally poverty line or lower in income is mostly coincidental in this case. It wouldn't change if you swapped all the black people with Hmong or West Virginians.

It’s not like the bus lines mostly avoid predominantly black neighborhoods...

They avoid predominantly white redneck, Hispanic, and Hmong neighborhoods too.

Shocking. Bus lines ignore poor people.

But it's clearly because they're black, not because they're poor. Just forget the part where all those other racial minorities and even race majority members are ignored.

Poverty is the only common thread shared. It has nothing to do with race, or at least nothing to do with "being black", since the amount of poverty and discrimination faced by Hmong and Bangladeshis is comparable to African-Americans. Whether race comes before poverty is somewhat of a chicken and egg question, though, but Nigerian-Americans are slowly proving that one wrong since they're very well educated, "black" (although they don't identify as "black" or "African-American", which is a uniquely American ethne), make lots of money, and are generally not discriminated against by fairly cosmopolitan suburbanites and bureaucrats. The biggest negative for Americans is growing up in a poor neighborhood, whether it's white/black/Asian/whatever, not "being black" or whatever, because poor neighborhoods have a bunch of bad actors who instill unproductive habits into children during their formative years through social interaction.

[95X]

Now, if we brought this service back and had free transportation on it... that would be satisfying, but we know it won't happen under the current provincial government.

Whoa, that got shut down, too? And earlier this year, Greyhound Canada shut down everything west of Sudbury, Ontario.

My main concern is we have such a huge homeless problem that the buses will just become rolling shelters, but a lot of people use them that way already so I'm not sure it would get much worse.

That unfortunately happens anyway. Something that can be done to limit the situation is for transit districts to check with their legal departments and draft both rider regulations that can be defended in court if need be, as well as have uniformed and potentially armed transit enforcement.

[Olerand]

Most such proposals in France are to reinvigorate the struggling downtown areas. Which is partially why Paris doesn't need this.

In Paris, is fare evasion much of an issue? Here in NYC it is.

Yes.

I’m sure this’ll help when the Germans arrive for vacation

... To Dunkerque? The Germans have weird tastes... But Dunkerque?

[Gallia-]

I’m sure this’ll help when the Germans arrive for vacation

True. The Heer doesn't even have enough money to pay its own bus drivers, let alone France's!

[Crylante]

Sounds a good idea. Good on Dunkirk.

The Conservative-dominated council in my local area would never introduce anything like this, however.

[The New California Republic]

I’m sure this’ll help when the Germans arrive for vacation

... To Dunkerque? The Germans have weird tastes... But Dunkerque?

The Brits will be leaving just before the Germans arrive.

[Olerand]

... To Dunkerque? The Germans have weird tastes... But Dunkerque?

The Brits will be leaving just before the Germans arrive.

Without telling the Belgians or French.

[The New California Republic]

The Brits will be leaving just before the Germans arrive.

Without telling the Belgians or French.

One hopes that they can see which way the wind is blowing, without needing to be told.

[Xanthal]

That unfortunately happens anyway. Something that can be done to limit the situation is for transit districts to check with their legal departments and draft both rider regulations that can be defended in court if need be, as well as have uniformed and potentially armed transit enforcement.

They're not dangerous. I mean, I'm sure some of them are by virtue of the fact that they're people and some people are dangerous but safety isn't my main concern, it's more a matter of other people's willingness to ride- one of the things I hear most from people who don't use public transit is that they're bothered by the mentally ill and homeless people that depend on the system as a de facto shelter. Granted that's not a politically correct sentiment, but right or not it's a real thing that repels a significant number of people from transit, so if the goal is to get more people to choose that option it's an issue that bears consideration.

Things are already rigged more than enough against those demographics, I don't want to make their lives any harder. If anything I want them to have access to a better warm and safe place than the transit system- preferably a place with resources to actually help them. It's better for them, better for other riders, and better for the transit agency.

[Torrocca]

Good on Dunkirk, tbh. This is a net-good for the people at large. :3

[Torrocca]

Bus rides are free and everyone likes it.

I doubt people who don't ride the bus like to see their tax money spent on that.

Now, I know you think that things that happen to help the greater sum of society (like free public transportation for everyone, both rich and poor, that's paid for by a slight reallocation of taxes) are personally the most oppressive things to you since sliced bread since you have to contribute to the greater whole of society for it to happen, but... Actually, I don't have any "buts" for this one. This is just a shittily hot take you're making, through and through.

This is why American-brand """Libertarianism""" is a Goddamn joke of an ideology.