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Orban wants you! ... as slave labourer

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:10 am
by Risottia
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46551904

Tl;dr , Orban's majority is about to allow Hungarian companies to demand their workers to work an extra 50-day's worth per year, while being allowed to withhold extra time wages for up to three years.

That, of course, flies right into the face of Orban's supporters at home and abroad, who use to claim the V4's ultra-right leader is all about defending the European masses impoverished by the evil liberal-jewish-masonic-commie-eurocrat-muslim conspiracy and similar populist bullshit.

As I post, riot is erupting around and inside the Budapest parliament, according to the notoriously liberal-jewish-etc fake-news propaganda outlet called BBC.

Do you guess this at least is going to open the eyes of the Hungarian voters about Orban and his coalition, or will they continue to vote for the guy who forces them to work two extra months for free because he's all oh-so-tough against those pesky unChristian refugees?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:14 am
by The Grims
What happens if the company goes bankrupt a year or so after your overtime ? Are the backwages lost ?

And what if you switch employers in the 3 year period ?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:15 am
by San Lumen
It doesnt matter what Orban does. Hungary is a democracy in name only at this point. The election rules that his party have implemented and the gerrymandering they have done have made it impossible for them to lose their supermajority. That's not even mentioning all the other things he has done.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:23 am
by Liriena
True to form: when push comes to shove, the far right that so often loves to bloviate about elites will always default to doing capital's bidding to the detriment of workers.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:29 am
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
"But at least he is owning the stinky rapefugee loving libtards! And even if he is doing this, BBC is fake news!"- Edgy shit posters, probably

Seriously, I think Hungry should start to sing out against this moron.

Sad to see the state of the country my grandparents came from.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:31 am
by San Lumen
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:"But at least he is owning the stinky rapefugee loving libtards! And even if he is doing this, BBC is fake news!"- Edgy shit posters, probably

Seriously, I think Hungry should start to sing out against this moron.

Sad to see the state of the country my grandparents came from.

It would be nearly impossible to get him out. His party cannot lose an election.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:31 am
by Trumptonium1
Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours, and Hungary is simply putting their law exactly in line with UK laws on working hours which prohibit working more than 48 hours a week unless the employee explicitly makes a written statement, which is not currently possible in Hungary where the employee is limited to 44 hours a week with no exceptions. This law allows the employee to bypass these restrictions if they wish to do so.

Contrary to the statements of the leftists in the thread above, not everyone on the planet is lazy and entitled, and some want to work longer and get paid more as a result. Hungary's laws do not allow them to do so.

Surprise surprise.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:31 am
by Imperializt Russia
The Grims wrote:What happens if the company goes bankrupt a year or so after your overtime ? Are the backwages lost ?

And what if you switch employers in the 3 year period ?

Almost certainly, in order, you get shit, and you get shit.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:34 am
by Novus Wrepland
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours, and Hungary is simply putting their law exactly in line with UK laws on working hours which prohibit working more than 48 hours a week unless the employee explicitly makes a written statement, which is not currently possible in Hungary where the employee is limited to 44 hours a week with no exceptions. This law allows the employee to bypass these restrictions if they wish to do so.

Contrary to the statements of the leftists in the thread above, not everyone on the planet is lazy and entitled, and some want to work longer and get paid more as a result. Hungary's laws do not allow them to do so.

Surprise surprise.

And what about the three year delay thing. Is that normal?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:34 am
by The Grims
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours


All the news sources sofar state that you can NOT refuse actually...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:36 am
by Imperializt Russia
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours, and Hungary is simply putting their law exactly in line with UK laws on working hours which prohibit working more than 48 hours a week unless the employee explicitly makes a written statement, which is not currently possible in Hungary where the employee is limited to 44 hours a week with no exceptions. This law allows the employee to bypass these restrictions if they wish to do so.

Contrary to the statements of the leftists in the thread above, not everyone on the planet is lazy and entitled, and some want to work longer and get paid more as a result. Hungary's laws do not allow them to do so.

Surprise surprise.

Working "no more than 44 hours per week, no exceptions" seems to fly right in the face of reporting that Hungary's existing overtime allowance - which the BBC frame as "what employers are allowed to demand of their workers" - of 250 hours.

In my current job, I don't have the right to refuse overtime outside of my contracted hours (I have signed the relevant declaration), because my working hours are defined as "Monday to Sunday inclusive". But, my contracted hours are only for 40 hours a week, 5 days Monday-Friday.

And guess when I get paid for my overtime?
About 30 times faster than Hungarians will.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:38 am
by Thermodolia
Oh no the poor people having to work an extra day a week. Oh the horror.

Slavery really? Get your damn priorities in order

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:38 am
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
San Lumen wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:"But at least he is owning the stinky rapefugee loving libtards! And even if he is doing this, BBC is fake news!"- Edgy shit posters, probably

Seriously, I think Hungry should start to sing out against this moron.

Sad to see the state of the country my grandparents came from.

It would be nearly impossible to get him out. His party cannot lose an election.


People just need to sing out more.

As long as people have the right to vote, they can lose.

What his party is doing is not what Miklós Gimes wanted.


Trumptonium1 wrote:
Contrary to the statements of the leftists in the thread above, not everyone on the planet is lazy and entitled,


Mind telling us where we said that people where lazy and entitled?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:40 am
by Novus Wrepland
Thermodolia wrote:Oh no the poor people having to work an extra day a week. Oh the horror.

Slavery really? Get your damn priorities in order

Making people wait three years for their paycheck (thus increasing the likelihood of forgetting what’s owed)? That’s nothing.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:47 am
by Thermodolia
Novus Wrepland wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Oh no the poor people having to work an extra day a week. Oh the horror.

Slavery really? Get your damn priorities in order

Making people wait three years for their paycheck (thus increasing the likelihood of forgetting what’s owed)? That’s nothing.

A bit crummy but not slavery. And with most jobs you have a massive paper trial that won’t let you forget

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:51 am
by Trumptonium1
Imperializt Russia wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours, and Hungary is simply putting their law exactly in line with UK laws on working hours which prohibit working more than 48 hours a week unless the employee explicitly makes a written statement, which is not currently possible in Hungary where the employee is limited to 44 hours a week with no exceptions. This law allows the employee to bypass these restrictions if they wish to do so.

Contrary to the statements of the leftists in the thread above, not everyone on the planet is lazy and entitled, and some want to work longer and get paid more as a result. Hungary's laws do not allow them to do so.

Surprise surprise.

Working "no more than 44 hours per week, no exceptions" seems to fly right in the face of reporting that Hungary's existing overtime allowance - which the BBC frame as "what employers are allowed to demand of their workers" - of 250 hours.


https://accace.com/labour-law-and-emplo ... n-hungary/
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters. ... sc.Default)&firstPage=true&comp=pluk&bhcp=1

Working time in Hungary is limited to 40 hours a week full-time (although may be increased to 12 hours a day with extra rest days so annualised same). Additional overtime amounts to 250 hours a week, or otherwise 44 hours a week in total. There are no exceptions for additional overtime beyond this, thus making 44 hours a week the absolute maximum you can possibly work, annualised. Or working cycle, which is 4 months.

Imperializt Russia wrote:In my current job, I don't have the right to refuse overtime outside of my contracted hours (I have signed the relevant declaration), because my working hours are defined as "Monday to Sunday inclusive". But, my contracted hours are only for 40 hours a week, 5 days Monday-Friday.

And guess when I get paid for my overtime?
About 30 times faster than Hungarians will.


You do. You signed it away. Your problem.

The Grims wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours


All the news sources sofar state that you can NOT refuse actually...


https://www.ft.com/content/a0268234-fd5 ... e208d3e521
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... 565571e5be

Where are you even getting your "cannot refuse" statement from? Neither the BBC nor anything else even says that, most miss out this key detail entirely.

You can make the argument that employees may be coerced into this psychologically or out of financial need, sure, but you can't say that this is forced overtime/working hours/slavery because it simply isn't, the overtime is there for those who want to make use of it not for the employers to demand it. Plus it's a very tight labour market, Hungary has more jobs than the unemployed, if any employee is pissed they can jump ship easier than in France where they'd be unemployed for a long while.


Novus Wrepland wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets to mention that employees can refuse to work extra overtime outside of their contracted hours, and Hungary is simply putting their law exactly in line with UK laws on working hours which prohibit working more than 48 hours a week unless the employee explicitly makes a written statement, which is not currently possible in Hungary where the employee is limited to 44 hours a week with no exceptions. This law allows the employee to bypass these restrictions if they wish to do so.

Contrary to the statements of the leftists in the thread above, not everyone on the planet is lazy and entitled, and some want to work longer and get paid more as a result. Hungary's laws do not allow them to do so.

Surprise surprise.

And what about the three year delay thing. Is that normal?


The timescale isn't, but withholding pay is. Three years is pretty shit, no idea why that's there. In the UK it's a maximum of six months. Currently it's 1 year in Hungary, which is pretty standard for the region and other manufacturing-based economies.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... ting-paid/

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:56 am
by Telconi
The allowed pay delay is odd, but beyond that this looks like a pretty run-of-the-mill overtime law. Given the previous limitations, it looks needed.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:04 am
by Novus Wrepland
Trumptonium1 wrote:The timescale isn't, but withholding pay is. Three years is pretty shit, no idea why that's there. In the UK it's a maximum of six months. Currently it's 1 year in Hungary, which is pretty standard for the region and other manufacturing-based economies.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... ting-paid/

https://hungarytoday.hu/implementation-of-slave-law-accompanied-by-demonstrations-controversies-and-4-hour-debate/
Vice president of Confederation of Vasas Trade Unions told leftist daily Népszava that “in summary, this would mean that workers should work harder for less money.” The extension of the compensation period would involve disputes since employees may not be able to remember events which occurred years earlier, leaving them open to abuse.


Seems clear.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:08 am
by Trumptonium1
Novus Wrepland wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:The timescale isn't, but withholding pay is. Three years is pretty shit, no idea why that's there. In the UK it's a maximum of six months. Currently it's 1 year in Hungary, which is pretty standard for the region and other manufacturing-based economies.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... ting-paid/

https://hungarytoday.hu/implementation-of-slave-law-accompanied-by-demonstrations-controversies-and-4-hour-debate/
Vice president of Confederation of Vasas Trade Unions told leftist daily Népszava that “in summary, this would mean that workers should work harder for less money.” The extension of the compensation period would involve disputes since employees may not be able to remember events which occurred years earlier, leaving them open to abuse.


Seems clear.


What is? I acknowledge the extension in the withholding period is crap, although I would contend that you're no more likely to remember what happened last December in Germany if someone withheld your pay than two Decembers ago in Hungary under new laws, so it's pretty pointless.

Workers can work more for more money for the same or higher hourly rates, so I don't really care about what a man with a vested interest wants to say. He's probably butthurt because the law also gives the power of overtime hour and wage negotiating to the individual and excludes unions for all other purposes than overtime disputes.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:12 am
by Novus Wrepland
.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:12 am
by Risottia
Trumptonium1 wrote:Dishonest OP forgets


Calling me dishonest? Resorting to ad hominems and while supporting strongmen and ruling elites? I though you sere better than - wait, who am I kidding? I didn't.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:12 am
by Sicaris
Oh no! We can choose to work a couple extra hours a week for more pay! How dreadful!

Seriously, OP, please tell the ENTIRE story with stuff like this..not just your view.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:14 am
by Ifreann
Working overtime without overtime pay. Yeah, take that, Soros!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:19 am
by Risottia
Sicaris wrote:Oh no! We can choose to work a couple extra hours a week for more pay! How dreadful!

Seriously, OP, please tell the ENTIRE story with stuff like this..not just your view.

I linked a Beeb article. Got problem with it? Take the Tube to Oxford Circus. I fail to see a link posted by you to a reputable source stating something else.

Oh, and of course you'd find entirely normal to have your wage postponed by three years.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:20 am
by Khataiy
Calling it slavery is exaggeration