NationStates

The New California Republic wrote:

VoVoDoCo wrote:I demand you, The New California Republic, to log off of NationStates and never log back on again. Will you? No. Because doing so is voluntary, whether or not I demand it. The use of the word "demand" is loaded to get a particular reaction. And it worked.

PS I wasn't flamming when I told you to never log back on, it was just an example.

The difference here is that you don't really have leverage over me. If my refusal to log out had consequences related to my employment, then that demand very much would be different from volunteering to log out and never log back in again.

Caracasus wrote:

Ifreann wrote:I'm sure Hungarian landlords, banks, and utilities providers will be only too happy to push their bills back three years until their customers finally get their overtime pay.

And I'm sure that companies will pay additional interest on the wages and go out of their way to track down temporary staff from 3 years ago.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Ifreann wrote:I'm sure Hungarian landlords, banks, and utilities providers will be only too happy to push their bills back three years until their customers finally get their overtime pay.

I'm sure most Hungarians don't care, because unlike the West, almost everybody in Hungary is a freehold homeowner.

Utilities such as electricity which is just 11 cents per kwh, one third less than in Germany and half of Portugal?

And do you really think the economic situation in Hungary is so precarious that people work overtime to pay for things like electricity and rent? lmao

The Grims wrote:

VoVoDoCo wrote:I demand you, The New California Republic, to log off of NationStates and never log back on again. Will you? No. Because doing so is voluntary, whether or not I demand it. The use of the word "demand" is loaded to get a particular reaction. And it worked.

PS I wasn't flamming when I told you to never log back on, it was just an example.

You are not his employer. When an employer makes a legal demand and you refuse your employer can fire you.

Khataiy wrote:Which country has huge protests due to failed policies France or Hungry? This isn't slavery and the hate over this is ridiculous

VoVoDoCo wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:The difference here is that you don't really have leverage over me. If my refusal to log out had consequences related to my employment, then that demand very much would be different from volunteering to log out and never log back in again.

Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

Trumptonium1 wrote:

The Grims wrote:You are not his employer. When an employer makes a legal demand and you refuse your employer can fire you.

Except it's voluntary.

Khataiy wrote:Which country has huge protests due to failed policies France or Hungry? This isn't slavery and the hate over this is ridiculous

Mainstream media trying to deflect attention, is all. Best thing they can do is find is 2000 socialist morons screeching in Budapest.

Literally on the same day. They're running out of things to blow out of proportion and don't have any ammunition to stop the worldwide right-turn.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

The Grims wrote:You are not his employer. When an employer makes a legal demand and you refuse your employer can fire you.

Except it's voluntary.

New rules mean companies can demand up to 400 hours of overtime a year and delay payment for it for three years.

Khataiy wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Except it's voluntary.



Mainstream media trying to deflect attention, is all. Best thing they can do is find is 2000 socialist morons screeching in Budapest.

Literally on the same day. They're running out of things to blow out of proportion and don't have any ammunition to stop the worldwide right-turn.

I don't doubt that at all this is a clear attempt to take attention away from French failures with their policies

Ifreann wrote:

Caracasus wrote:
And I'm sure that companies will pay additional interest on the wages and go out of their way to track down temporary staff from 3 years ago.

Oh, no doubt.

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Trumptonium1 wrote:
I'm sure most Hungarians don't care, because unlike the West, almost everybody in Hungary is a freehold homeowner.

Utilities such as electricity which is just 11 cents per kwh, one third less than in Germany and half of Portugal?

And do you really think the economic situation in Hungary is so precarious that people work overtime to pay for things like electricity and rent? lmao

What they might spend their overtime pay on is beside the point. If workers can be told to wait three years before getting their full wages then surely they can turn around and tell companies to wait three years before getting their full payment for any goods or services.

The New California Republic wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Except it's voluntary.

Quote from BBC News:

New rules mean companies can demand up to 400 hours of overtime a year and delay payment for it for three years.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Oh, no doubt.

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What they might spend their overtime pay on is beside the point. If workers can be told to wait three years before getting their full wages then surely they can turn around and tell companies to wait three years before getting their full payment for any goods or services.

No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later.

More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

Trumptonium1 wrote:I provided links from FT above which say different.

Ifreann wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later.

Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.

More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

Then why is it being made an option at all?

VoVoDoCo wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:The difference here is that you don't really have leverage over me. If my refusal to log out had consequences related to my employment, then that demand very much would be different from volunteering to log out and never log back in again.

Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

Neutraligon wrote:

VoVoDoCo wrote:Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

I have a gun to your head telling you I will shoot you unless you give me all your money. You hand it over. Did you hand over the money voluntarily?

Novus Wrepland wrote:

Khataiy wrote:I don't doubt that at all this is a clear attempt to take attention away from French failures with their policies

Polling indicates the policy is extremely unpopular. Specifically by 83 per cent of the population is opposed.

Ifreann wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later.

Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.

Ifreann wrote:

More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

Then why is it being made an option at all?

Caracasus wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.


Then why is it being made an option at all?

One involves people who sell their labour, the other involves commerce. It's blatantly clear the hungariam government sides with the financial elite at the expense of the workers.

The New California Republic wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:I provided links from FT above which say different.

Because paywalled sources are useful...

Ifreann wrote:

Caracasus wrote:
One involves people who sell their labour, the other involves commerce. It's blatantly clear the hungariam government sides with the financial elite at the expense of the workers.

`How very shocking.

Caracasus wrote:I love the 'voluntary arrangement' arguments. They so clearly come from someone who has never, ever had to worry about where the next meal is coming from, or the next rent payment.