Violence Against Sex Workers

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's not a service, it is a product, as it is a physical object. You wouldn't say a hotel room is a service.

Then you're the one equating a human body with a product, which is rather hypocritcal.

The act of using a human as a product does reduce the human into a product, which is why I am against such transactions.

[Genivaria]

There is nothing unique about prostitution that makes it selling a good (the human body) as opposed to a service like every other similar industry.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's ridiculous that we're re-opening the question of whether human beings can be products to be bought and sold. It's innately dehumanizing by reducing humans into commodities that can be purchased.

She isn't selling her/his body. They're offering a service. It's essentially the same for any service industry that involves customer interaction. Question is how do we make sexual services as safe if not safer than food services.

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

[Genivaria]

Then you're the one equating a human body with a product, which is rather hypocritcal.

The act of using a human as a product does reduce the human into a product, which is why I am against such transactions.

Then by your logic me washing dishes reduces me to a product and you should support banning dishwashing jobs.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There is nothing unique about prostitution that makes it selling a good (the human body) as opposed to a service like every other similar industry.

The fact that it reduces the prostitute into an object which is then used.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The act of using a human as a product does reduce the human into a product, which is why I am against such transactions.

Then by your logic me washing dishes reduces me to a product and you should support banning dishwashing jobs.

I support banning all employer-employee relationships.

[Genivaria]

She isn't selling her/his body. They're offering a service. It's essentially the same for any service industry that involves customer interaction. Question is how do we make sexual services as safe if not safer than food services.

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

You asserting that the human body is an object does not make it so.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

You asserting that the human body is an object does not make it so.

What is the human body, if not an object?

[Ifreann]

Except that no-one is discussing buying and selling humans.

Prostitution necessarily involves the renting of a human body.

So does taking a taxi.

[NeoOasis]

She isn't selling her/his body. They're offering a service. It's essentially the same for any service industry that involves customer interaction. Question is how do we make sexual services as safe if not safer than food services.

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

I beg to differ. There is no products changing hands here. It is a service she offers. In this case sexual satisfaction. Sex isn't an object. Nor is a woman's body.

[New haven america]

You asserting that the human body is an object does not make it so.

What is the human body, if not an object?

Anything that's made of matter is an object.

[Galloism]

She isn't selling her/his body. They're offering a service. It's essentially the same for any service industry that involves customer interaction. Question is how do we make sexual services as safe if not safer than food services.

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

Getting a massage is buying people.

Ban massage therapy.

[Genivaria]

You asserting that the human body is an object does not make it so.

What is the human body, if not an object?

So then prostitution doesn't objectify the human body, you do.

[Galloism]

Prostitution necessarily involves the renting of a human body.

So does taking a taxi.

Decriminalize taxi driving, but prosecute hailing.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

I beg to differ. There is no products changing hands here. It is a service she offers. In this case sexual satisfaction. Sex isn't an object. Nor is a woman's body.

A body is indeed an object, as it is made of matter.

[New haven america]

I beg to differ. There is no products changing hands here. It is a service she offers. In this case sexual satisfaction. Sex isn't an object. Nor is a woman's body.

A body is indeed an object, as it is made of matter.

Since you read that point, I reiterate my earlier argument.

The sex worker (Which can be male or female... or both, or neither) is producing happy chemicals for the people they work with.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Also, laughing at these people who think sex work is progressive:

(1) In its first form only a generalisation and consummation of it [of this relation]. As such it appears in a two-fold form: on the one hand, the dominion of material property bulks so large that it wants to destroy everything which is not capable of being possessed by all as private property. It wants to disregard talent, etc., in an arbitrary manner. For it the sole purpose of life and existence is direct, physical possession. The category of the worker is not done away with, but extended to all men. The relationship of private property persists as the relationship of the community to the world of things. Finally, this movement of opposing universal private property to private property finds expression in the brutish form of opposing to marriage (certainly a form of exclusive private property) the community of women, in which a woman becomes a piece of communal and common property. It may be said that this idea of the community of women gives away the secret of this as yet completely crude and thoughtless communism.[30] Just as woman passes from marriage to general prostitution, [Prostitution is only a specific expression of the general prostitution of the labourer, and since it is a relationship in which falls not the prostitute alone, but also the one who prostitutes – and the latter’s abomination is still greater – the capitalist, etc., also comes under this head. – Note by Marx [31]] so the entire world of wealth (that is, of man’s objective substance) passes from the relationship of exclusive marriage with the owner of private property to a state of universal prostitution with the community. This type of communism – since it negates the personality of man in every sphere – is but the logical expression of private property, which is this negation. General envy constituting itself as a power is the disguise in which greed re-establishes itself and satisfies itself, only in another way. The thought of every piece of private property as such is at least turned against wealthier private property in the form of envy and the urge to reduce things to a common level, so that this envy and urge even constitute the essence of competition. Crude communism [the manuscript has: Kommunist. – Ed.] is only the culmination of this envy and of this levelling-down proceeding from the preconceived minimum. It has a definite, limited standard. How little this annulment of private property is really an appropriation is in fact proved by the abstract negation of the entire world of culture and civilisation, the regression to the unnatural || IV ||IV| simplicity of the poor and crude man who has few needs and who has not only failed to go beyond private property, but has not yet even reached it.

[United Muscovite Nations]

A body is indeed an object, as it is made of matter.

Since you read that point, I reiterate my earlier argument.

The sex worker (Which can be male or female... or both, or neither) is producing happy chemicals for the people they work with.

The prostitute is not producing the chemicals, the brain of the solicitor is.

[NeoOasis]

I beg to differ. There is no products changing hands here. It is a service she offers. In this case sexual satisfaction. Sex isn't an object. Nor is a woman's body.

A body is indeed an object, as it is made of matter.

By your logic, literally any profession is objectifying because it requires you renting an object out to accomplish a task.

I disagree with the assertion your own body is an object. We're taking the definition here too literally. In a philisophical sense, the human body is not an object, otherwise the concept of objectifcation wouldn't exist seeing as how you can't degrade something to an object as it is already an object.

So no, we aren't objects, but beings.

So does taking a taxi.

Decriminalize taxi driving, but prosecute hailing.

A novel way to deal with Uber and Lyft.

[United Muscovite Nations]

A body is indeed an object, as it is made of matter.

By your logic, literally any profession is objectifying because it requires you renting an object out to accomplish a task.

I disagree with the assertion your own body is an object. We're taking the definition here too literally. In a philisophical sense, the human body is not an object, otherwise the concept of objectifcation wouldn't exist seeing as how you can degrade something to an object as it is already an object.

So no, we aren't objects, but beings.

Any profession in which you are employed by another is objectifying, which is the argument progressives and reactionaries have both been making since the 1700's.

As to whether the human body is an object, it can be touched, it has definite shape, is made of matter, etc. It is an object.

[NeoOasis]

By your logic, literally any profession is objectifying because it requires you renting an object out to accomplish a task.

I disagree with the assertion your own body is an object. We're taking the definition here too literally. In a philisophical sense, the human body is not an object, otherwise the concept of objectifcation wouldn't exist seeing as how you can degrade something to an object as it is already an object.

So no, we aren't objects, but beings.

Any profession in which you are employed by another is objectifying, which is the argument progressives and reactionaries have both been making since the 1700's.

As to whether the human body is an object, it can be touched, it has definite shape, is made of matter, etc. It is an object.

So why are you only against prostitution? Going back to the original arguement, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be opposed to service based labor to begin with?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Any profession in which you are employed by another is objectifying, which is the argument progressives and reactionaries have both been making since the 1700's.

As to whether the human body is an object, it can be touched, it has definite shape, is made of matter, etc. It is an object.

So why are you only against prostitution? Going back to the original arguement, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be opposed to service based labor to begin with?

I've said several times in this thread that I'm against all employer-employee relationships and think that the economy should be based around voluntary production.

[Dekerin Domains]

Let's just leave Marx out of this. That's the first step. Don't use Marx as an authority. He's not.

[Ifreann]

It isn't a service, they are offering an object, which is then used by the other party of the transaction.

Getting a massage is buying people.

Ban massage therapy.

UMN does seem to want a society where no one ever does any kind of service, we'd all just build things forever.

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Also, laughing at these people who think sex work is progressive:

You've been spending too much time with the right if you think that progressive == Marxist.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

So why are you only against prostitution? Going back to the original arguement, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be opposed to service based labor to begin with?

I've said several times in this thread that I'm against all employer-employee relationships and think that the economy should be based around voluntary production.

Guess we gotta ban family businesses then.