Violence Against Sex Workers

[Katganistan]

Legalize it everywhere, so that it's no longer hidden in the shadows. Let people be licensed and rent space legitimately for sex work, and let customers come in as if it were any other business and be subject to being on security camera in the "front of the house" areas.

Making it a legitimate business will make it easier for workers to go to the legal authorities if threatened or hurt, and will put jackasses on notice that it's not going to be tolerated.

Maybe legitimizing it will remove some of the stigma as well.

[Dekerin Domains]

Legalize it everywhere, so that it's no longer hidden in the shadows. Let people be licensed and rent space legitimately for sex work, and let customers come in as if it were any other business and be subject to being on security camera in the "front of the house" areas.

Making it a legitimate business will make it easier for workers to go to the legal authorities if threatened or hurt, and will put jackasses on notice that it's not going to be tolerated.

Maybe legitimizing it will remove some of the stigma as well.

No more scared hookers being beaten and afraid to go to the cops for fear of Vice, that's for sure.

[Kowani]

Legalize and regulate the prostitution business, and we can make it safer and healthier for both the employees and the customers.

This.

[Cedoria]

Legalisation and properly regulated protection for sex workers is probably a good start.

Hard to stop violence entirely, but at least punishing it when it occurs. Making a basic human occupation illegal just seems mighty silly too me, and then having it be illegal makes it doubly unsafe for both clients and practitioners.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Eh, I'm pretty pessimistic about the solutions thrown around here. Maybe because I live in a country where if you're an abused sex worker seeking help, the first appropriate cultural response would be 'stone her'. Clearly there's still a long way to go, at least outside the 'free world'.

Tbh i don't think violence would realistically end until we invent realistic AI virtual simulator/robot 20-30 years from now, in which case the issue would be irrelevant

[United Muscovite Nations]

I've said several times in this thread that I'm against all employer-employee relationships and think that the economy should be based around voluntary production.

What's wrong with a self-employed prostitute, then? Or a self-employed masseur, or waiter, or barber, or laborer, or literally any of the jobs that could be thought of as "renting human bodies"?

Service jobs and non-productive can never be self-employed, they are employed by their customers.

[United Muscovite Nations]

As someone who is acquainted with and regularly avails the services of sex workers (in a country where it's illegal to procure their services -- bite me), it's far better for everyone involved if the sex trade were legalized and regulated, not least for health reasons.

But the far larger problem here is stigma -- unless many of our assumptions regarding sexually active yet romantically and/or matrimonially unattached women (and men, and the rest of the alphabet, and I know this doesn't cover the OP at all given her marital status, but I hate to be redundant) are definitively brought down, unless sex workers are treated as humans with the full dignity afforded the rest of humanity and not (just) as cum dumps, no law can protect them from society's scorn, let alone the avarice of detached pimps and the crazed fantasies of nymphomaniacs.

But how to break the stigma?

Sidestep the issue and become a hetaira of Greek lore, transplanted into our contemporary conundrums -- a public figure whose many accomplishments in many other fields of human endeavor as she chooses, not just in the sexual arena, should allow one to treat the sex issue as one of many, but not the determinant. It'll also help make it clear in the public mind that, yes, not all sex workers are bimbos, defective in some characteristic way, not intellectually shallow, not sex machines or whatever the hell else our hypocritical prudishness has attached over millennia.

The only way for that to happen is to not put them in a field where they are turned into sexual objects for profit.

[Dekerin Domains]

What's wrong with a self-employed prostitute, then? Or a self-employed masseur, or waiter, or barber, or laborer, or literally any of the jobs that could be thought of as "renting human bodies"?

Service jobs and non-productive can never be self-employed, they are employed by their customers.

So, just get rid of all service jobs, no more bellhops, barbers, etc.? What kind of economy do you expect to survive that?

[Mardla]

Well when you commodify something sacred, like sex, it's often seen as a commodity and not as something sacred. That's not to say raping prostitutes shouldn't be prosecuted, but prostitution (this obviously includes porn) itself leads to the cheapening of sexuality. It ceases to be something holy and higher, and rape itself becomes just physical assault and theft of services. Foucault said most rape should not be treated anything worse than mild assault, and of course he arrived at this position by simply following left-wing logic to its conclusion.

Sex isn't sacred.

Then how is sexual assault worse than regular assault?

[Saiwania]

It is no more immoral to pay for sex than it is to pay for a haircut.

Most countries don't seem to see it this way and the sources for the 3 main religions of this world (Bible and Qur'an) are in agreement that sexual intercourse is only appropriate within marriage. Thus, most people feel that it is sacred on some level.

[Dekerin Domains]

It is no more immoral to pay for sex than it is to pay for a haircut.

Most countries don't seem to see it this way and the sources for the 3 main religions of this world (Bible and Qur'an) are in agreement that sexual intercourse is only appropriate within marriage. Thus, most people feel that it is sacred on some level.

Policy shouldn't be based on the canon of major or minor religions, or religions of any kind. Nor should legislation. Public policy should be based on facts, evidence, empirical matters, and the public good. Religion should have zero influence on public policy and legislation. Nada. None. Zilch.

[Ifreann]

It is no more immoral to pay for sex than it is to pay for a haircut.

Most countries don't seem to see it this way

Countries are wrong about a lot of things.

and the sources for the 3 main religions of this world (Bible and Qur'an)

That's two religions...

are in agreement that sexual intercourse is only appropriate within marriage. Thus, most people feel that it is sacred on some level.

People are also wrong about a lot of things.

[Mardla]

Most countries don't seem to see it this way

Countries are wrong about a lot of things.

and the sources for the 3 main religions of this world (Bible and Qur'an)

That's two religions...

are in agreement that sexual intercourse is only appropriate within marriage. Thus, most people feel that it is sacred on some level.

People are also wrong about a lot of things.

Are morals a matter of truth, or simply preference? If the latter, then "wrong" here is a bold accusation.

[Ifreann]

Countries are wrong about a lot of things.

That's two religions...

People are also wrong about a lot of things.

Are morals a matter of truth, or simply preference? If the latter, then "wrong" here is a bold accusation.

Obviously I'm just right about everything.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Service jobs and non-productive can never be self-employed, they are employed by their customers.

So, just get rid of all service jobs, no more bellhops, barbers, etc.? What kind of economy do you expect to survive that?

One based around local agriculture.

[Dekerin Domains]

If there must be an objective morality, let it based on somewhat rational or empirical, you know, like science. I won't listen to "absolutes" coming from a book of fairy tales with talking snakes, clay men, solar orbiting of Earth, an Earth with "corners," and magic rib women, a book whose "god" commands genocide repeatedly for the horrific "crime" of worshiping other gods! Sacre bleu! Not to mention that whole slavery thing condoned by Paul and Moses alike.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If there must be an objective morality, let it based on somewhat rational or empirical, you know, like science. I won't listen to "absolutes" coming from a book of fairy tales with talking snakes, clay men, solar orbiting of Earth, and magic rib women, a book whose "god" commands genocide repeatedly for the horrific "crime" of worshiping other gods! Sacre bleu! Not to mention that whole slavery thing condoned by Paul and Moses alike.

Let's hear it then.

[Dekerin Domains]

If there must be an objective morality, let it based on somewhat rational or empirical, you know, like science. I won't listen to "absolutes" coming from a book of fairy tales with talking snakes, clay men, solar orbiting of Earth, and magic rib women, a book whose "god" commands genocide repeatedly for the horrific "crime" of worshiping other gods! Sacre bleu! Not to mention that whole slavery thing condoned by Paul and Moses alike.

Let's hear it then.

There's insufficient data so far, but unlike you, I'm honest enough to admit as much.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Let's hear it then.

There's insufficient data so far, but unlike you, I'm honest enough to admit as much.

How can there be insufficient data on something that is practice every day?

[Dekerin Domains]

There's insufficient data so far, but unlike you, I'm honest enough to admit as much.

How can there be insufficient data on something that is practice every day?

Insufficient data to link it to a moral code and extrapolate one from it yet. The upshot being that there can be no moral absolutes, let alone anything of the sort to guide society, if all of society can't even agree on it.

[Chessmistress]

Legalize it everywhere, so that it's no longer hidden in the shadows. Let people be licensed and rent space legitimately for sex work, and let customers come in as if it were any other business and be subject to being on security camera in the "front of the house" areas.

Making it a legitimate business will make it easier for workers to go to the legal authorities if threatened or hurt, and will put jackasses on notice that it's not going to be tolerated.

Maybe legitimizing it will remove some of the stigma as well.

It doesn't work
Another very recent proof, in Leeds, UK:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lega ... -3km90k83s

Even the councillor who championed the zone believes it was a mistake. “We tried something and it hasn’t worked,” says Mark Dobson.

The best solution is the Swedish model, that is in use also in France, Canada, Ireland, Norway and Iceland - it punishes just only the men buying women's bodies, not the women forced to sell their bodies.
Even Jeremy Corbyn is considering its adoption in UK (when he'll be PM, not now of course).

[Dekerin Domains]

Actually, the best model is decriminalization, or the New Zealand model, the one adopted with the advice of actual sex workers themselves, the one that sex worker organizations internationally advocate at every possible turn. The so-called Nordic Model has been proven to fail repeatedly in terms of actually protecting sex workers.

[Mercuriuseudoro]

Eh, I'm pretty pessimistic about the solutions thrown around here. Maybe because I live in a country where if you're an abused sex worker seeking help, the first appropriate cultural response would be 'stone her'.

Brilliant!

Where do you live and how hard is it to get a visa?

[Auze]

Eh, I'm pretty pessimistic about the solutions thrown around here. Maybe because I live in a country where if you're an abused sex worker seeking help, the first appropriate cultural response would be 'stone her'.

Brilliant!

Where do you live and how hard is it to get a visa?

I think he lives in Indonesia, judging by the dispatch.

[Saiwania]

The best solution is the Swedish model, that is in use also in France, Canada, Ireland, Norway and Iceland - it punishes just only the men buying women's bodies, not the women forced to sell their bodies.

Not being able to get the clients or business they want is in effect, a punishment for the minority of women who voluntarily partake in sex work.

The demand for sex as a product doesn't magically disappear just because its made illegal. A Black market arises to fill this niche. The men who'd be willing to pay for sex if it were legal but won't if its illegal, they disappear as potential customers for a prostitute. The only customers they have left in that scenario are people who're willing to break the law and hence, are more likely to be riff raff or the dangerous sort.

The end result is that prostitutes have to find something else to do for money or put up with a worse clientele and worse conditions (such as needing the assistance of a pimp) because whoever pays for their services is driven underground to make it less likely for them to get caught.