UN Immigration Pact

[Hrythingia]

So how, exactly, did you come to the conclusion that international governments are always unsustainable?

Because internationalism and open borders are scary and gross

Once again you boil down our arguments to some buzzwords when you know full well there's more to it than that.

[Ifreann]

Because internationalism and open borders are scary and gross

Once again you boil down our arguments to some buzzwords when you know full well there's more to it than that.

If so, we can only wait for Snottistan to explain themselves.

[Kannap]

Because internationalism and open borders are scary and gross

Once again you boil down our arguments to some buzzwords when you know full well there's more to it than that.

I don't know, your last post mainly boiled down to racist remarks and saying people don't have rights, so I've given up on trying to reason with you.

[Nevv Vegas]

Estonia was so close to stepping out of it, but the market liberal party decided to vote "None of the above" when the issue reached the parliament, then they bitched about the government giving a green light to the thing, saying that "We wanted changes to it!" Government was in turmoil, really interesting. Was inevtiable with the type of coalition leading Estonia.

[Hrythingia]

Once again you boil down our arguments to some buzzwords when you know full well there's more to it than that.

If so, we can only wait for Snottistan to explain themselves.

Snottistan alas seems a bit wanting in the cerebral department, but what I think he is trying to point out is that any international system is going to be weighted in favour of its creator -vae victis. So eventually that hegemony is overturned because why be part of a system that dictates to you rather than running all things that pertain to you by oneself? Internationalism is inevitably going to come with a certain degree of oppression because in order for anything to be truly international it needs to subsume all the globe be they willing or otherwise. It will need a governing body..run by whom? Worldwide elections? How will candidates be picked, how will policy work? What if whole peoples have their voice on that very large table completely overlooked?

[Olerand]

According to this article in the New York Times: Prime Minister Charles Michel of Belgium announced the end of his majority government late Saturday, after its biggest coalition partner, the right-wing Flemish party, left in opposition to the planned signing this month of an international agreement on migration.

Prime Minister Charles Michel of Belgium, has formed a minority coalition government with Ministers from the other coalition parties in his government, I support the right-wing Flemish Party's decision.

A good read to read and comment on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/09/worl ... ation.html

Nothing unusual for Belgium. Having a stable government is the exception, not the norm.

[Hrythingia]

Once again you boil down our arguments to some buzzwords when you know full well there's more to it than that.

I don't know, your last post mainly boiled down to racist remarks and saying people don't have rights, so I've given up on trying to reason with you.

People don't have rights. Unless they make them for themselves. As a Christian I will treat people as I expect to be treated but I'm not going to give you anything out of some airy sense of entitlement.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Non-binding political pact with zero legal ramifications?

Boring. And that's coming from the international law guy.

[Kannap]

I don't know, your last post mainly boiled down to racist remarks and saying people don't have rights, so I've given up on trying to reason with you.

People don't have rights. Unless they make them for themselves. As a Christian I will treat people as I expect to be treated but I'm not going to give you anything out of some airy sense of entitlement.

I this is why I'm no longer arguing with you, no point in trying to hold a conversation with somebody who doesn't believe in basic human rights.

[Hrythingia]

People don't have rights. Unless they make them for themselves. As a Christian I will treat people as I expect to be treated but I'm not going to give you anything out of some airy sense of entitlement.

I this is why I'm no longer arguing with you, no point in trying to hold a conversation with somebody who doesn't believe in basic human rights.

It's not that I object to norms of basic human decency its that I don't believe in an arbitrary word cooked up by some 20th century goon. Rights are legal provisions secured by a sovereign people. Some random goatherd has had no part in that process nor inherits it. He has his own societal norms and I have mine. I have my Rights as an Englishman secured by the aforementioned legal documents which are steeped in tradition and history and through the strife of my people.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I this is why I'm no longer arguing with you, no point in trying to hold a conversation with somebody who doesn't believe in basic human rights.

It's not that I object to norms of basic human decency its that I don't believe in an arbitrary word cooked up by some 20th century goon. Rights are legal provisions secured by a sovereign people. Some random goatherd has had no part in that process nor inherits it. He has his own societal norms and I have mine. I have my Rights as an Englishman secured by the aforementioned legal documents which are steeped in tradition and history and through the strife of my people.

And the rights granted under the ECHR.

[Hrythingia]

It's not that I object to norms of basic human decency its that I don't believe in an arbitrary word cooked up by some 20th century goon. Rights are legal provisions secured by a sovereign people. Some random goatherd has had no part in that process nor inherits it. He has his own societal norms and I have mine. I have my Rights as an Englishman secured by the aforementioned legal documents which are steeped in tradition and history and through the strife of my people.

And the rights granted under the ECHR.

Which is what, some things scribbled on toilet paper? I was never asked whether I thought that was a good thing, nor was my father or his father. The ECHR does not grant me any rights that cannot be procured in Her Majesty's Courts of Law, or at least nothing worth having.

[Kubumba Tribe]

And the rights granted under the ECHR.

Which is what, some things scribbled on toilet paper?

Same can be said about the UK's constitution. And all constitutions at that.

[The Tomerlands]

I hope more countries follow those who refused to sign the migration pact.

Why? Do migrants and refugees not have the right to immigrant?

[Hrythingia]

I hope more countries follow those who refused to sign the migration pact.

Why? Do migrants and refugees not have the right to immigrant?

People can leave their country if they so wish, providing thats legal in their home country (unlucky North Koreans). But they have no 'right' to enter someone else's country unless the people already living there want them there.

[The Tomerlands]

Refugees have the same rights as anyone else. Just imagine being one of them, having to leave your own country and home and having to take your family with you to somewhere where you get harassed or even assaulted.

[The Tomerlands]

Why? Do migrants and refugees not have the right to immigrant?

People can leave their country if they so wish, providing thats legal in their home country (unlucky North Koreans). But they have no 'right' to enter someone else's country unless the people already living there want them there.

1. It is okay for people to escape their home no matter if it is illegal to do that or not. AKA if you lived in North Korea, you wouldn't care if it was illegal or not to escape that dictatorship would you?

2. True. But as long as the refugees obey the laws then there is no reason to freak out. They have human rights just like anyone else and they shouldn't be forced out of their new home just because a far right wing government told them to leave.

[Gran Virginia]

I hope more countries follow those who refused to sign the migration pact.

Why? Do migrants and refugees not have the right to immigrant?

People most certainly do not have a right to just go to whatever country they choose. The issue of refugees is more complex, to be sure, but if we're talking about normal migration, it's very clear cut. The people of a nation have every right to govern their border.

[Hrythingia]

Refugees have the same rights as anyone else. Just imagine being one of them, having to leave your own country and home and having to take your family with you to somewhere where you get harassed or even assaulted.

It would be awful, but if I'm not wanted in that country then I can't and won't go there. Developed countries have their own problems to sort out -both political and structurally. The last thing they need is swarms of people from a part of the world so culturally different to throw a spanner in the works. There are videos of refugees washing their arses in public on bloody drinking fountains. They are treated with malice for a reason.

[Snottistan]

Once again you boil down our arguments to some buzzwords when you know full well there's more to it than that.

If so, we can only wait for Snottistan to explain themselves.

One government across multiple nations amounts usually to a small number of nations, usually one, governing multiple others. When conflicts of interests arise, then, the interests of the governed are open to being left unaddressed in favour of those of the governing. From there dissatisfaction, nationalism and either instability or brutality follow.

[Gran Virginia]

People can leave their country if they so wish, providing thats legal in their home country (unlucky North Koreans). But they have no 'right' to enter someone else's country unless the people already living there want them there.

1. It is okay for people to escape their home no matter if it is illegal to do that or not. AKA if you lived in North Korea, you wouldn't care if it was illegal or not to escape that dictatorship would you?

2. True. But as long as the refugees obey the laws then there is no reason to freak out. They have human rights just like anyone else and they shouldn't be forced out of their new home just because a far right wing government told them to leave.

Even if no laws are broken, mass immigration still causes problems for the working class (as the people involved in mass migration are very often poor themselves), causing wage suppression by inflating the labor market.

[The Tomerlands]

Why? Do migrants and refugees not have the right to immigrant?

People most certainly do not have a right to just go to whatever country they choose. The issue of refugees is more complex, to be sure, but if we're talking about normal migration, it's very clear cut. The people of a nation have every right to govern their border.

Yes they do. As long as they obey the immigration laws they can anyways. Unless that particular country bans immigration, which most nations do not.

[Hrythingia]

People can leave their country if they so wish, providing thats legal in their home country (unlucky North Koreans). But they have no 'right' to enter someone else's country unless the people already living there want them there.

1. It is okay for people to escape their home no matter if it is illegal to do that or not. AKA if you lived in North Korea, you wouldn't care if it was illegal or not to escape that dictatorship would you?

2. True. But as long as the refugees obey the laws then there is no reason to freak out. They have human rights just like anyone else and they shouldn't be forced out of their new home just because a far right wing government told them to leave.

Its 'okay' yes, but its still illegal; i.e they have no right to do it as far as that country understands.


But they don't obey the laws, they break down border fences, they assault police, they lie about their age, the kidnap children from their camps in order to fast track themselves. If a government takes power on an anti-immigrant ticket they absolutely should be forced out because that is the expressed wishes of the long term population of that country which bear the economic and social burden of immigration.

[The Tomerlands]

Refugees have the same rights as anyone else. Just imagine being one of them, having to leave your own country and home and having to take your family with you to somewhere where you get harassed or even assaulted.

It would be awful, but if I'm not wanted in that country then I can't and won't go there. Developed countries have their own problems to sort out -both political and structurally. The last thing they need is swarms of people from a part of the world so culturally different to throw a spanner in the works. There are videos of refugees washing their arses in public on bloody drinking fountains. They are treated with malice for a reason.

They are treated with malice by ignorant fools who'd rather demonize immigrants instead of trying to help them. Most of the time for a political agenda, a far right wing one.

[The Vexian Union]

I do not support this pact as it makes it easier for illegal/legal immigrants to arrive from other nations, for example in germany there are a lot of illegal immigrants that commit crime. Yes some of them don't commit crimes however just because they don't doesn't mean we should still open our borders. In the region that I live in I see constant muslims praising their culture and spreading it with violence. The only good thing I see from this is for the international workers that get sent from country to country.