UN Immigration Pact

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

This is disgusting. The UN is vastly overstepping its mandate and ruining the world for everyone.

Yep. That’s the UN. Overstepping boundaries, make weak laws, nobody follows the laws.

At this point it’s really just the place to go to scream at country you don’t like.

The UN gets nothing done.

The UN provided a forum for nations to work together. Those nations, together, worked on a migration framework. Now, all nations get the choice whether to sign on to a non-binding political compact. The UN is truly forcing its will upon the earth.

I mean, I know making your enemies seem more powerful than they are is politically expedient, but come on. No-one could spin this into the UN 'overstepping its boundaries'. At this point, the only thing UN about this is its logo at the top of the document.

Also, I don't know what it is the UN is supposed to 'get done'. It is just a place where nations come together. It provides a framework nations can use to make the world a better place. If the laws are weak and the UN doesn't get anything done, the fault lies with the countries, not with the UN.

[Ifreann]

Yep. That’s the UN. Overstepping boundaries, make weak laws, nobody follows the laws.

At this point it’s really just the place to go to scream at country you don’t like.

The UN gets nothing done.

The UN provided a forum for nations to work together. Those nations, together, worked on a migration framework. Now, all nations get the choice whether to sign on to a non-binding political compact. The UN is truly forcing its will upon the earth.

I mean, I know making your enemies seem more powerful than they are is politically expedient, but come on. No-one could spin this into the UN 'overstepping its boundaries'. At this point, the only thing UN about this is its logo at the top of the document.

Also, I don't know what it is the UN is supposed to 'get done'. It is just a place where nations come together. It provides a framework nations can use to make the world a better place. If the laws are weak and the UN doesn't get anything done, the fault lies with the countries, not with the UN.

The UN doing exactly what it's meant to do is, somehow, a huge overstep by the UN.

[Kannap]

The UN provided a forum for nations to work together. Those nations, together, worked on a migration framework. Now, all nations get the choice whether to sign on to a non-binding political compact. The UN is truly forcing its will upon the earth.

I mean, I know making your enemies seem more powerful than they are is politically expedient, but come on. No-one could spin this into the UN 'overstepping its boundaries'. At this point, the only thing UN about this is its logo at the top of the document.

Also, I don't know what it is the UN is supposed to 'get done'. It is just a place where nations come together. It provides a framework nations can use to make the world a better place. If the laws are weak and the UN doesn't get anything done, the fault lies with the countries, not with the UN.

The UN doing exactly what it's meant to do is, somehow, a huge overstep by the UN.

So it goes.

[Painisia]

The hysteria around the UN Immigration Pact has been based on irrational zealot claims created on isolationist ground.

b) Establish comprehensive and needs-based pre-departure and post-arrival programmes that may include rights and obligations, basic language training, as well as orientation about social norms and customs in the country of destination

Does this look horrible to you all?

[Nevv Vegas]

The hysteria around the UN Immigration Pact has been based on irrational zealot claims created on isolationist ground.

b) Establish comprehensive and needs-based pre-departure and post-arrival programmes that may include rights and obligations, basic language training, as well as orientation about social norms and customs in the country of destination

Does this look horrible to you all?

The government should do these themselves, without UN guidance. This creates a program the nation's parliament did not agree on.

[Ifreann]

The hysteria around the UN Immigration Pact has been based on irrational zealot claims created on isolationist ground.

b) Establish comprehensive and needs-based pre-departure and post-arrival programmes that may include rights and obligations, basic language training, as well as orientation about social norms and customs in the country of destination

Does this look horrible to you all?

The government should do these themselves, without UN guidance. This creates a program the nation's parliament did not agree on.

Did the UN go around to all these countries and force them to sign up?

[Nevv Vegas]

The parliament or whatever thing there is did not vote on it in a majority of places.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The hysteria around the UN Immigration Pact has been based on irrational zealot claims created on isolationist ground.

b) Establish comprehensive and needs-based pre-departure and post-arrival programmes that may include rights and obligations, basic language training, as well as orientation about social norms and customs in the country of destination

Does this look horrible to you all?

The government should do these themselves, without UN guidance. This creates a program the nation's parliament did not agree on.

No it doesn't. Nations have made a political promise to make such programmes, but each nation's constitutional order still applies. This compact does not give national governments the unilateral right to skirt their own constitutions. The only thing nations are doing is voluntarily coming together and voluntarily signing a non-binding pinky promise to work towards something like this. The UN is not forcing anything, they are not leading anything.

A problem like migration cannot be handled by each nation alone. You need cooperation.

[Nevv Vegas]

A problem like migration has to be dealt with using the army. And i am opposed to it more on principle. The fact that this is a promise makes it even more opposable.

[Ifreann]

The parliament or whatever thing there is did not vote on it in a majority of places.

So then who signed the pact?

[Nevv Vegas]

The Heads of State usually. Because foreign treaties supercede the parliament or something. At least in Estonia we had the luxury of filibustering the signing into 19 december.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The Heads of State usually. Because foreign treaties supercede the parliament or something. At least in Estonia we had the luxury of filibustering the signing into 19 december.

It depends on the local constitutional order. However, a parliament usually gets to ratify all treaties made by countries. However, this compact is a non-binding agreement between executives, and since it has no binding power, it a) cannot supersede national law; only binding treaties do that, and b) parliaments do not need to agree, since there isn't really anything to agree to.

A problem like migration has to be dealt with using the army. And i am opposed to it more on principle. The fact that this is a promise makes it even more opposable.

The fact that this is a promise rather than a binding treaty makes it more opposable to you?

[Ifreann]

The Heads of State usually. Because foreign treaties supercede the parliament or something. At least in Estonia we had the luxury of filibustering the signing into 19 december.

And in which countries is it illegal for the head of state to sign a pact like this without the approval of their parliament or whatever?

[Kannap]

The hysteria around the UN Immigration Pact has been based on irrational zealot claims created on isolationist ground.

b) Establish comprehensive and needs-based pre-departure and post-arrival programmes that may include rights and obligations, basic language training, as well as orientation about social norms and customs in the country of destination

Does this look horrible to you all?

The government should do these themselves, without UN guidance. This creates a program the nation's parliament did not agree on.

The UN isn't forcing any nation to sign onto this agreement, therefore nations that sign onto this agreement will see their governments establishing these programs themselves.

[The Tomerlands]

This is disgusting. The UN is vastly overstepping its mandate and ruining the world for everyone.

You're being a little dramatic. This is a non binding pact and not an actual enforced law by any means. The UN is not some evil one world government.

[Phoenicaea]

The parliament or whatever thing there is did not vote on it in a majority of places.

So then who signed the pact?

in most countries your government may sign the pact which then is 'somewhat' confirmed by vote (of parliament). because, as far it is a treaty, it may not be democratic.

then, most of these countries have got a government legally mandated by parliament, a legal path to the government-held 'administrative state'.

the Un document is a matter of principle, it is then good to discuss it before so that not keeping to sign promises you don t comply with.

the matter is, the opposition to the Un chart is not about the flawed things, it is about the core princilpe: Un has married the principle 'of poor countries', that is harsh realism.

it s good, because it is the truth. even if it could be easier for me say otherwise, still emigration is not legal matter: if you live in a worse country, you will flee whatever means.

the matter is, the Un statement says what has been proved true, and same time this truth is harsh to accept. we can refuse to accept it, and then keep reknowning it without saying.