The Price of Victory

[Saiwania]

I can't quite tell what sort of magic this scenario is talking about. I take it is magic in the fantasy sense?

So far as magic goes in real life, there is said to be two types: magic and magick.

Magic refers to the sort of parlor tricks that Harry Houdini specialized in, mere illusions and tricks purely for entertainment which can be explained physically and by science.

Magick on the other hand, is incredibly dangerous stuff that is associated with the Occult and hence, the Kingdom of Darkness (Satan). It is risking an "opening of doors" to familiar spirits (demons) in a spiritual or mental sense and is best avoided. It is far easier to invite in evil than it is to get it to leave you. Any and all dealings with Magick is prohibited in scripture for a reason. I can't prove that Magick is even real, but my experiences lead me to suspect that it is. Exorcism services wouldn't be needed otherwise.

[Infected Mushroom]

I can't quite tell what sort of magic this scenario is talking about. I take it is magic in the fantasy sense?

So far as magic goes in real life, there is said to be two types: magic and magick.

Magic refers to the sort of parlor tricks that Harry Houdini specialized in, mere illusions and tricks purely for entertainment which can be explained physically and by science.

Magick on the other hand, is incredibly dangerous stuff that is associated with the Occult and hence, the Kingdom of Darkness (Satan). It is risking an "opening of doors" to familiar spirits (demons) in a spiritual or mental sense and is best avoided. It is far easier to invite in evil than it is to get it to leave you. Any and all dealings with Magick is prohibited in scripture for a reason. I can't prove that Magick is even real, but my experiences lead me to suspect that it is. Exorcism services wouldn't be needed otherwise.

I believe its intended to be a highly highly limited form of Magick

Does this affect your answer?

[Purpelia]

I can't quite tell what sort of magic this scenario is talking about. I take it is magic in the fantasy sense?

So far as magic goes in real life, there is said to be two types: magic and magick.

Magic refers to the sort of parlor tricks that Harry Houdini specialized in, mere illusions and tricks purely for entertainment which can be explained physically and by science.

Magick on the other hand, is incredibly dangerous stuff that is associated with the Occult and hence, the Kingdom of Darkness (Satan). It is risking an "opening of doors" to familiar spirits (demons) in a spiritual or mental sense and is best avoided. It is far easier to invite in evil than it is to get it to leave you. Any and all dealings with Magick is prohibited in scripture for a reason. I can't prove that Magick is even real, but my experiences lead me to suspect that it is. Exorcism services wouldn't be needed otherwise.

Don't you got o hell either way? I mean, playing pretend satanic servant is hardly going to fall short enough of actually being one for god to care.

[Caracasus]

because even her life is precious or something something...

No it's not. The world will keep going without her just fine. Just as it would without you or me. If anything the world is better off without manipulative psychopaths like that.

I'd rather not kill her to be honest, but there's so much at stake here.

We're talking about a world where healthcare is still paid for at point of entry. The dictatorship of capital is still clearly in charge in this world, propped up by a world government that apparently even dictates how popular sports play out. However there's hope on the horizon. In its vampire like desire for blood, the wealthy have bought back blood sports in all but name, watching the working classes slaughter each other for their own entertainment.

In this scenario as in all others they're digging their own graves. The fighters who enter this are being given weapons that can never be taken away from them and being trained to use them effectively. Not all, but clearly a fair number of contestents form part of the diverse array of revolutionary movements, unified by the ruling classes in this weird gladiatorial contest.

Once the prize money is mine, it'll be spent funding guerrilla fighters, terrorist attacks on government buildings and police departments and fueling propaganda internet channels glorifying the revolution. I don't really matter in this scenario any more than the woman playing silly buggers - what matters is that money reaches the people who need it.

[Purpelia]

I'd rather not kill her to be honest, but there's so much at stake here.

You are not killing her. This is not murder. It is suicide. It is no different as if she had threatened to jump if you won, which frankly is a scenario we could see happening even in a non magical world. And that's not your responsibility.

[Saiwania]

If the tournament is based around magic in the fantasy sense, I'd be willing to throw the match. The game doesn't mean as much to me as it does to my opponent apparently. I might feel cheated that I wasn't defeated honorably and would try to convince them to share any ill gotten gains with me. They probably won't but I can only try. If I'm some master duelist, I could pass on my knowledge and maybe form an arrangement of mutual benefit.

I assume that my parents are going to die whenever fate decides this to be. It might be the case that they'll be just fine even without me managing to get any huge prize money for medical services.

If I'm in debt, its my fault that I should take responsibility for if I took a loan. I should pay it off to the best of my ability and not gamble. No excuses or quitting. Although it is perhaps possible that my only option is to go into default, but I'd do my part to fight on. Its not fair for me to get charged excessive interest but its not fair for a creditor either to not get their loan paid. I believe such things can be negotiated as Trump has proven.

[Caracasus]

I'd rather not kill her to be honest, but there's so much at stake here.

You are not killing her. This is not murder. It is suicide. It is no different as if she had threatened to jump if you won, which frankly is a scenario we could see happening even in a non magical world. And that's not your responsibility.

True, but I am doing something that will result in someone's death so I would rather not if possible. As I said though, there's a lot at stake so I guess she's plummeting to her death.

[Infected Mushroom]

You are not killing her. This is not murder. It is suicide. It is no different as if she had threatened to jump if you won, which frankly is a scenario we could see happening even in a non magical world. And that's not your responsibility.

True, but I am doing something that will result in someone's death so I would rather not if possible. As I said though, there's a lot at stake so I guess she's plummeting to her death.

or survives and is permanently crippled, bleeding and screaming in pain for 20+ mins even as the ambulance and stuff gets here

[Purpelia]

You are not killing her. This is not murder. It is suicide. It is no different as if she had threatened to jump if you won, which frankly is a scenario we could see happening even in a non magical world. And that's not your responsibility.

True, but I am doing something that will result in someone's death so I would rather not if possible. As I said though, there's a lot at stake so I guess she's plummeting to her death.

But you do such things all the time. Every time you buy food that's food someone else could have eaten and not starved to death. Every time you go to work, that's a job someone else needs to earn money to live. Every time you consume any sort of resource you are taking away from other people. If you don't want to spend your life killing others by proxy you're pretty much going to have to devote your self to nothing but the bare minimum you need to stay alive.

[-Ocelot-]

It was her decision and I already struggle to save someone else (myself). She will have to die.

[Ifreann]

Hey, look, another trolley problem.

[Heloin]

I take the time machine and kill whomever invented the trolley problem. Wait, I'm mixing up threads.

She's either a moron or she's bluffing. If she falls well tough shit, it's a shame someone had to die but she's clearly a contender for the Darwin Awards. If she's bluffing then she moves out of the way when she notices that I don't care.

[Infected Mushroom]

Hey, look, another trolley problem.

Eh?

In what sense?

Here if you don’t take an action (inaction) no one dies

[Infected Mushroom]

True, but I am doing something that will result in someone's death so I would rather not if possible. As I said though, there's a lot at stake so I guess she's plummeting to her death.

But you do such things all the time. Every time you buy food that's food someone else could have eaten and not starved to death. Every time you go to work, that's a job someone else needs to earn money to live. Every time you consume any sort of resource you are taking away from other people. If you don't want to spend your life killing others by proxy you're pretty much going to have to devote your self to nothing but the bare minimum you need to stay alive.

I think the difference here that is that it’s immediately in front of your eyes.

In other situations it usually several steps removed and the chain is less clear/foreseeable

[Purpelia]

But you do such things all the time. Every time you buy food that's food someone else could have eaten and not starved to death. Every time you go to work, that's a job someone else needs to earn money to live. Every time you consume any sort of resource you are taking away from other people. If you don't want to spend your life killing others by proxy you're pretty much going to have to devote your self to nothing but the bare minimum you need to stay alive.

I think the difference here that is that it’s immediately in front of your eyes.

In other situations it usually several steps removed and the chain is less clear/foreseeable

So no difference at all than.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think the difference here that is that it’s immediately in front of your eyes.

In other situations it usually several steps removed and the chain is less clear/foreseeable

So no difference at all than.

I mean in the examples you raised there’s the certainty/probability of death.

If I play to win, she will (90 percent plus probably) die.

If I buy the food... well why did you think it was going to be given to the starving in the alternative? It wouldn’t, it’d be sold to someone else, likely someone who could have bought elsewhere and has lots of money.

Taking the job or not entails lots of complicated things you can’t see. Is there welfare? Was there really exactly a starving person who would and could have taken the job but for you taking it?

You know what I’m saying?

The but for causation is different

[Valrifell]

I can't quite tell what sort of magic this scenario is talking about. I take it is magic in the fantasy sense?

So far as magic goes in real life, there is said to be two types: magic and magick.

Magic refers to the sort of parlor tricks that Harry Houdini specialized in, mere illusions and tricks purely for entertainment which can be explained physically and by science.

Magick on the other hand, is incredibly dangerous stuff that is associated with the Occult and hence, the Kingdom of Darkness (Satan). It is risking an "opening of doors" to familiar spirits (demons) in a spiritual or mental sense and is best avoided. It is far easier to invite in evil than it is to get it to leave you. Any and all dealings with Magick is prohibited in scripture for a reason. I can't prove that Magick is even real, but my experiences lead me to suspect that it is. Exorcism services wouldn't be needed otherwise.

Don't you got o hell either way? I mean, playing pretend satanic servant is hardly going to fall short enough of actually being one for god to care.

So, if you're considering that magic kit, just go all the way and worship Satan. Might as well, same outcome.

[Valrifell]

Hey, look, another trolley problem.

Eh?

In what sense?

Here if you don’t take an action (inaction) no one dies

But then the mother dies as per the rules of the thread to force our participation?

[Infected Mushroom]

Eh?

In what sense?

Here if you don’t take an action (inaction) no one dies

But then the mother dies as per the rules of the thread to force our participation?

Hmmm let me think about that

That might be a problem

Think I should remove that premise and just leave the debts part?

[Purpelia]

So, if you're considering that magic kit, just go all the way and worship Satan. Might as well, same outcome.

All I am saying is that if I believed in a god and in demons and magic and all that AND I believed that magic was really the road to demonic possession and hell I wouldn't want to play pretend magic either. Obviously I don't believe any of that.

And if I lived in a world such as he described and was a god that actually liked my creation and didn't want them to get possessed by demons and go to hell I'd probably not be too happy with them pretending demonic possession either. Kind of how you don't want your children to play pretend russian roulette or pretend needle sharing heroin addicts. Obviously though I don't and am not. But it stands to reason that if he existed the Christian god would feel that way.

I mean in the examples you raised there’s the certainty/probability of death.

If I play to win, she will (90 percent plus probably) die.

If I buy the food... well why did you think it was going to be given to the starving in the alternative? It wouldn’t, it’d be sold to someone else, likely someone who could have bought elsewhere and has lots of money.

Taking the job or not entails lots of complicated things you can’t see. Is there welfare? Was there really exactly a starving person who would and could have taken the job but for you taking it?

You know what I’m saying?

The but for causation is different

I know exactly what you are saying. Out of sight is out of mind. But that's all it is. It's not actually gone. Even the very act of posting on this forum is consuming electricity. Statistically most of that electricity is going to come from oil which permanently poisons the environment leading to the ultimate inevitable extinction of mankind. And what isn't is coming from atomic energy (thus atomic waste issues) or so called "renewable" sources that still consume scarce resources to produce and maintain to the point that you are just delaying the inevitable.

Bottom line is that in a world of scarce resources your very existence is harmful to all life around you. Which is why it is generally accepted that it's only evil to hurt others on purpose as opposed to on accident or by proxy. Thus making this situation not evil.

[The Great Imperator Jeffrey]

Become a billionaire or let some person I don't know win because she threatened suicide? I will choose the money.

[Saiwania]

Don't you got o hell either way? I mean, playing pretend satanic servant is hardly going to fall short enough of actually being one for god to care.

If magic doesn't count as actual divination, witchcraft, or sorcery of any sort and it is just stage tricks to amuse an audience, then it can probably be done in good conscience in my view. It might annoy God but someone in that situation can always repent later on, just to be sure.

Making an item disappear? 100% okay if nothing supernatural was used or attempted. If it was done purely through sleight of hand.

Using an Ouija board, tarot cards, a crystal ball, telling fortunes, casting spells/curses, taking up witchcraft, communing with the dead? No, all of this is banned according to all of the Abrahamic scriptures.

Magick is what we actually know to be 100% forbidden and wrong. This is what would really make the Abrahamic God angry. If someone has dabbled in black arts for a while, that is when they might need an exorcism and to undergo trials of deliverance for an extended period of time that varies in how easy or difficult it'd be for them to get rid of any demons and become spiritually clean again.

[Thermodolia]

TL;DR No more fucking hypotheticals!!!

[Ifreann]

Hey, look, another trolley problem.

Eh?

In what sense?

In that under your overly elaborate set dressing this is just a choice between two mutually exclusive options. The trolley can go down the track that kills your competitor, or down the track that carries away your money, and can't go down both and can't go down neither.

---

Don't you got o hell either way? I mean, playing pretend satanic servant is hardly going to fall short enough of actually being one for god to care.

If magic doesn't count as actual divination, witchcraft, or sorcery of any sort and it is just stage tricks to amuse an audience, then it can probably be done in good conscience in my view. It might annoy God but someone in that situation can always repent later on, just to be sure.

Magick is what we actually know to be 100% forbidden and wrong. This is what would really make the Abrahamic God angry. If someone has dabbled in black arts for a while, that is when they might need an exorcism and to undergo trials of deliverance for an extended period of time that varies in how easy or difficult it'd be for them to get rid of any demons and become spiritually clean again.

Demons aren't real. God isn't real. Spelling magic with a 'k' is just an affectation of neo-pagans. There is no "real" magic.

[Infected Mushroom]

Alright... to balance out the scenario there will be no mother’s life on the line and no debt

Billions of dollars should be incentive enough to “kill”

Standby for edit

(Another reason for the edit is that you already stand to lose 2/3 of your netsworth if you don’t win)