ICE attempts to deport American born citizen

[Page]

Are you perhaps, from the Philippines....?

Singapore, as I've mentioned above.

I don't agree with what's happening in the Philippines because extra-judicial death squads have no regulations and have a high propensity to kill perfectly innocent people. I don't have an issue with an institutionalised justice system, with checks and balances, making liberal use of the death penalty against drug criminals convicted in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. Let's not conflate the two.

Should we execute jaywalkers too? How about people who are too loud?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Singapore, as I've mentioned above.

I don't agree with what's happening in the Philippines because extra-judicial death squads have no regulations and have a high propensity to kill perfectly innocent people. I don't have an issue with an institutionalised justice system, with checks and balances, making liberal use of the death penalty against drug criminals convicted in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. Let's not conflate the two.

Should we execute jaywalkers too? How about people who are too loud?

I'd certainly send those pesky drivers who flash their 500 billion lumen headlights into my fucking eyes when I'm driving at night to the guillotine, that's for goddamn sure.

[Purgatio]

Singapore, as I've mentioned above.

I don't agree with what's happening in the Philippines because extra-judicial death squads have no regulations and have a high propensity to kill perfectly innocent people. I don't have an issue with an institutionalised justice system, with checks and balances, making liberal use of the death penalty against drug criminals convicted in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. Let's not conflate the two.

Should we execute jaywalkers too? How about people who are too loud?

No, jail is fine for those people. We should reserve executions for the real public menaces who pollute our streets with drugs and contribute to drug-related crime and drug-related deaths.

[Purgatio]

Should we execute jaywalkers too? How about people who are too loud?

I'd certainly send those pesky drivers who flash their 500 billion lumen headlights into my fucking eyes when I'm driving at night to the guillotine, that's for goddamn sure.

Amen! Hallelujah!

[Holy Tedalonia]

I'd certainly send those pesky drivers who flash their 500 billion lumen headlights into my fucking eyes when I'm driving at night to the guillotine, that's for goddamn sure.

Amen! Hallelujah!

When your driving then suddenly this happens from behind your car...

[Lalop]

They need to totally liquidate that organization, replace everyone in it and have better oversight. At this point, if ICE can target a random everyday American, I think it's safe to assume we all should be concerned about an increasingly meaninglessly heavily armed military force patrolling our city streets with impunity and an above the law status.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/t ... topsy.html
If this article doesn't convince you that ICE is out of control and heavy handed, I don't know what will. Every officer involved in this individual's death should be sentenced to death, or at least to life in prison. But i doubt they will be even charged because like most other law enforcement in the un-united state of hysteria, they get a free pass to basically abuse their power.
Just remember what happened in Los Angeles in 1992 after the citizens there faced years of abuse by the local police. If something isnt done soon to reign in these thugs, I have a feeling there will be a flashpoint that leads to serious civil unrest, widespread violence and a mob using a more lethal method to solve ICE if the government wont. People who are backed into a corner lash out, and there's only so far ICE can go before they start suffering damages and casualties. Stop the exploitation now, or don't complain when things get worse.

LA 1992 is why we have the 2nd amendment my friend. If anyone ever tries to harm a lawful government instution like that and protecting us, I expect that it won't be the police the rioters will have to worry about, it'll be groups trying to keep the rule of law. You know, like normal people.

[Vassenor]

They need to totally liquidate that organization, replace everyone in it and have better oversight. At this point, if ICE can target a random everyday American, I think it's safe to assume we all should be concerned about an increasingly meaninglessly heavily armed military force patrolling our city streets with impunity and an above the law status.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/t ... topsy.html
If this article doesn't convince you that ICE is out of control and heavy handed, I don't know what will. Every officer involved in this individual's death should be sentenced to death, or at least to life in prison. But i doubt they will be even charged because like most other law enforcement in the un-united state of hysteria, they get a free pass to basically abuse their power.
Just remember what happened in Los Angeles in 1992 after the citizens there faced years of abuse by the local police. If something isnt done soon to reign in these thugs, I have a feeling there will be a flashpoint that leads to serious civil unrest, widespread violence and a mob using a more lethal method to solve ICE if the government wont. People who are backed into a corner lash out, and there's only so far ICE can go before they start suffering damages and casualties. Stop the exploitation now, or don't complain when things get worse.

LA 1992 is why we have the 2nd amendment my friend. If anyone ever tries to harm a lawful government instution like that and protecting us, I expect that it won't be the police the rioters will have to worry about, it'll be groups trying to keep the rule of law. You know, like normal people.

So where were those groups during the actual Rodney King riots?

[Telconi]

LA 1992 is why we have the 2nd amendment my friend. If anyone ever tries to harm a lawful government instution like that and protecting us, I expect that it won't be the police the rioters will have to worry about, it'll be groups trying to keep the rule of law. You know, like normal people.

So where were those groups during the actual Rodney King riots?

On the roofs of their stores.

[Petrasylvania]

So where were those groups during the actual Rodney King riots?

On the roofs of their stores.

Or busy looting.

[Saiwania]

God, you're a dedicated troll.

I don't think of myself as too cruel or anything. I do after all believe this person should remain in the country if he is a citizen and do consent to him getting a settlement that is sufficient for his job search. It is my belief that even if he got deported, he would've been able to come back to the US almost immediately and all of it would be sorted out because Jamaica or whatever, would show the US evidence that he isn't one of theirs.

The only tangible negative outcome for him was the temporary loss of his time and freedom and losing wages via losing his job because of this situation. I'm not going to fault ICE for doing their job, even if erroneously in rarer circumstances such as this.

Lets say there is a typical lawsuit that has been settled. If someone was awarded $1 million for a back disability or whatever, chances are the court didn't reach that high amount to enable said person to "get rich" but rather to enable that person to afford the huge expense of a back surgery or treatment. This man is entitled to whatever lost wages in terms of salary he had, for a period of 2 or 3 years at most.

If he lost a lucrative job, the settlement amount can be much higher than it'd be if he lost a low paying job because he was detained for too long.

[South Ccanda]

hell, why deport the pot smoker when we can just kill them? deportation costs hundreds of dollars, but a 9mm bullet is just 15 cents a round!

Completely agree, glad someone sees what's important.

Unless you're being sarcastic.

that may be the biggest, most sassy, most fabulous strawman I'e ever built

[The Liberated Territories]

Well certain drugs are legal there so it couldn't be the worst deal.

[South Ccanda]

Amen! Hallelujah!

When your driving then suddenly this happens from behind your car...

"Nothing personal, kid."

[Mardla]

Good job. Unless your parents were citizens or you got your citizenship through application, you are not an American, you are a foreigner living in this country but not a member of her people.

[South Ccanda]

Good job. Unless your parents were citizens or you got your citizenship through application, you are not an American, you are a foreigner living in this country but not a member of her people.

umm, wrong. as soon s you gain citizenship, you have earned the right to be called an American because you would in fact be an American. it doesn't matter where you are from, or where your parents are from. They are Americans and are deserving of that title.

[Mardla]

Good job. Unless your parents were citizens or you got your citizenship through application, you are not an American, you are a foreigner living in this country but not a member of her people.

umm, wrong. as soon s you gain citizenship, you have earned the right to be called an American because you would in fact be an American. it doesn't matter where you are from, or where your parents are from. They are Americans and are deserving of that title.

Americans are a people, not just a piece of paper. You are either born into that people by descent, or you apply for us to adopt you. Otherwise you're a foreigner.

[Kowani]

umm, wrong. as soon s you gain citizenship, you have earned the right to be called an American because you would in fact be an American. it doesn't matter where you are from, or where your parents are from. They are Americans and are deserving of that title.

Americans are a people, not just a piece of paper. You are either born into that people by descent, or you apply for us to adopt you. Otherwise you're a foreigner.

Laughs in the 14th Amendment.

[Vassenor]

Americans are a people, not just a piece of paper. You are either born into that people by descent, or you apply for us to adopt you. Otherwise you're a foreigner.

Laughs in the 14th Amendment.

Some people find the idea of birthright citizenship incredibly triggering for some reason.

[Mardla]

Americans are a people, not just a piece of paper. You are either born into that people by descent, or you apply for us to adopt you. Otherwise you're a foreigner.

Laughs in the 14th Amendment.

Not intended by its framers to give citizenship to everyone born here.

[Mardla]

Laughs in the 14th Amendment.

Some people find the idea of birthright citizenship incredibly triggering for some reason.

It's intended to bring in more votes for your party. Virtually no other country in the world does that.

[Valgora]

Some people find the idea of birthright citizenship incredibly triggering for some reason.

It's intended to bring in more votes for your party. Virtually no other country in the world does that.

No. Birthright Citizenship ain't something that was intended to get more votes for their party (I assume you mean the Democratic Party).

Also, just because the majority of other countries don't have Birthright Citizenship doesn't mean anything. Those other countries ain't America.
Also, that argument falls under the Bandwagon Fallacy.

[Duhon]

Good job. Unless your parents were citizens or you got your citizenship through application, you are not an American, you are a foreigner living in this country but not a member of her people.

... he was born in the United States. He's an American citizen.

Americans are a people, not just a piece of paper. You are either born into that people by descent, or you apply for us to adopt you. Otherwise you're a foreigner.

... he was born in the United States. He's an American citizen.

Not intended by its framers to give citizenship to everyone born here.

... so smoking weed is sufficient grounds for stripping an American citizen of his citizenship now?

It's intended to bring in more votes for your party. Virtually no other country in the world does that.

I didn't know you've retrogressed into a Know-Nothing, Parkus. What happened?

[Valgora]

Laughs in the 14th Amendment.

Not intended by its framers to give citizenship to everyone born here.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
- 14th Amendment

Clearly it can be seen in the wording.

Also,

The Fourteenth Amendment provides that children born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction become American citizens at birth. At the time of the amendment's passage, President Andrew Johnson and three Senators, including Trumbull, the author of the Civil Rights Act, asserted that both the Civil Rights Act and the Fourteenth Amendment would confer citizenship to children born to foreign nationals in the United States.

[Novus America]

LA 1992 is why we have the 2nd amendment my friend. If anyone ever tries to harm a lawful government instution like that and protecting us, I expect that it won't be the police the rioters will have to worry about, it'll be groups trying to keep the rule of law. You know, like normal people.

So where were those groups during the actual Rodney King riots?

Actually many Koreans business owners (some of the primary targets of the mobs) did use privately owned weapons to defend their businesses.
Though of course that alone was not enough.

[Novus America]

Not intended by its framers to give citizenship to everyone born here.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
- 14th Amendment

Clearly it can be seen in the wording.

Also,

The Fourteenth Amendment provides that children born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction become American citizens at birth. At the time of the amendment's passage, President Andrew Johnson and three Senators, including Trumbull, the author of the Civil Rights Act, asserted that both the Civil Rights Act and the Fourteenth Amendment would confer citizenship to children born to foreign nationals in the United States.

Actually it does not apply to everyone born here
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
ruled it does apply to the children of legal residents but does not apply to children of people working in a direct capacity for foreign governments (such as diplomats).
The case did not discuss illegal immigrants, the courts of not yet ruled on them.

The “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause is the key point of dispute.

But anyways this individual clearly is a citizen. The government acknowledged he was after the initial confusion.