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Se Þræd Eald Englisċes (The Old English Thread)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:33 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Aellex wrote:We really did a charitable act when we removed that abomination and replaced it by one of our patois.
Three cheers for Guillaume le Bâtard, I guess ?


See, this is why nobody likes France.

England would have been better off under Hardrada.


Nonsense.

A restoration of the House of Wessex under England's rightful king Edgar the Atheling would have spared our English cousins both the Normans and Hardrada.

This is, of course, why Scotland is the natural ruler of England; Malcolm Canmore's marriage to Edgar's sister Margaret meant that all of the Scottish monarchs from [Malcolm and Margaret's son] Edgar onwards had a better claim to the English throne than the usurpers in London.

Eventually, under James VI/I, we came into our rightful inheritance.

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Glath
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Glath » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:35 pm

Hrythingia wrote:[
Technocratic Uganda wrote:Doesn't Old English have grammatical case? How much of a pain is that?

:eyebrow: Many many languages have grammatical cases and in fact this makes the language easier to deal with since you can place a lot of information inside a word and thus sentences can be treated like a simple equation rather than relying on word order alone which is highly restrictive for verse composition. Or even prose for that matter.

The word for wood: ƿudu declines like so as a noun:
singular -plural
Nominative -ƿudu -ƿuda
Accusative -ƿudu -ƿuda
Genitive -ƿuda -ƿuda
Dative -ƿuda -ƿudum

Verbs are fairly straight foward, they have a tense and a person though unlike in Latin the person is often expressed seperately.


I'd think that grammatical case would still be a pain for a monolingual speaker of Modern English. It would probably be easier for a German speaker to learn Old English than an English speaker.

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Hrythingia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hrythingia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:35 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
See, this is why nobody likes France.

England would have been better off under Hardrada.


Nonsense.

A restoration of the House of Wessex under England's rightful king Edgar the Atheling would have spared our English cousins both the Normans and Hardrada.

This is, of course, why Scotland is the natural ruler of England; Malcolm Canmore's marriage to Edgar's sister Margaret meant that all of the Scottish monarchs from [Malcolm and Margaret's son] Edgar onwards had a better claim to the English throne than the usurpers in London.

Eventually, under James VI/I, we came into our rightful inheritance.

Indeed, alas. If only the English were better at horses back then.

Inb4 Rohirrim...
The Wielderdom of Hrythingia
Þæs Ƿealdaríċe Hrýðinglondes

State type: Semi-Elective Monarchy
Leader: Earl Wynmar II of The Ashwold, Hrythwealda
Capital: Ernburh
Language: Hrystic (Old English)
Religion: Catholicism
Characteristics: Isolationist, mercantile, conservative, rural, deeply religious
Industries: sheep/beef agriculture, fishing, offshore oil, financial services
Britonnis nati, Anglis Dei Gratia! A Catholic Conservative Briton, Late Antiquities Student and Reservist Officer in training. Interests: hunting, rugby, choral music, history, literature, linguistics and alcohol.

Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad, Roddi i mi galon lân.

Se Þræd Eald Englisċes

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:38 pm

Aellex wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:French is a horrible language. It's disgustingly flamboyant; bringing shame to it's fellow Romance languages.

This is why no one like you Germanics, absolutely no taste and in top of that mistaking strengths for flaws, smh.


Excuse you, but I'm only half German - my other half is Italian and Scot-Irish. Thus, I know very well what beautiful languages look like and French is not one of them.

But at least it's not Portuguese. *shudder*

The Archregimancy wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
See, this is why nobody likes France.

England would have been better off under Hardrada.


Nonsense.

A restoration of the House of Wessex under England's rightful king Edgar the Atheling would have spared our English cousins both the Normans and Hardrada.

This is, of course, why Scotland is the natural ruler of England; Malcolm Canmore's marriage to Edgar's sister Margaret meant that all of the Scottish monarchs from [Malcolm and Margaret's son] Edgar onwards had a better claim to the English throne than the usurpers in London.

Eventually, under James VI/I, we came into our rightful inheritance.


Now this is something I can get behind.
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Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Come back when the French aren't protesting about something. That's real news.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:39 pm

Hrythingia wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
Nonsense.

A restoration of the House of Wessex under England's rightful king Edgar the Atheling would have spared our English cousins both the Normans and Hardrada.

This is, of course, why Scotland is the natural ruler of England; Malcolm Canmore's marriage to Edgar's sister Margaret meant that all of the Scottish monarchs from [Malcolm and Margaret's son] Edgar onwards had a better claim to the English throne than the usurpers in London.

Eventually, under James VI/I, we came into our rightful inheritance.

Indeed, alas. If only the English were better at horses back then.

Inb4 Rohirrim...


Tolkien, is that you?
Eodor wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Do you want Crusades? Because this is how you get Crusades.

Trazyn the Infinite encourages Imperial forces to embark on the Indomitus Crusade after the Fall of Cadia. Circa. M42
Proctopeo wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Come back when the French aren't protesting about something. That's real news.

"President Macron, the peasants are revolting!"
"I'm well aware of that, they don't even bathe. Servant, bring me more wine."
The South Falls wrote:
Kannap wrote:This look isn't cute on you.

He's funding my salt mine.

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The blAAtschApen
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Postby The blAAtschApen » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:39 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
See, this is why nobody likes France.

England would have been better off under Hardrada.


Nonsense.

A restoration of the House of Wessex under England's rightful king Edgar the Atheling would have spared our English cousins both the Normans and Hardrada.

This is, of course, why Scotland is the natural ruler of England; Malcolm Canmore's marriage to Edgar's sister Margaret meant that all of the Scottish monarchs from [Malcolm and Margaret's son] Edgar onwards had a better claim to the English throne than the usurpers in London.

Eventually, under James VI/I, we came into our rightful inheritance.


And how is that working out for Scotland?
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Hrythingia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hrythingia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:42 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Hrythingia wrote:Indeed, alas. If only the English were better at horses back then.

Inb4 Rohirrim...


Tolkien, is that you?

Not quite, though like Tolkien I am a catholic mediaevalist with a keen pen for stories.
The Wielderdom of Hrythingia
Þæs Ƿealdaríċe Hrýðinglondes

State type: Semi-Elective Monarchy
Leader: Earl Wynmar II of The Ashwold, Hrythwealda
Capital: Ernburh
Language: Hrystic (Old English)
Religion: Catholicism
Characteristics: Isolationist, mercantile, conservative, rural, deeply religious
Industries: sheep/beef agriculture, fishing, offshore oil, financial services
Britonnis nati, Anglis Dei Gratia! A Catholic Conservative Briton, Late Antiquities Student and Reservist Officer in training. Interests: hunting, rugby, choral music, history, literature, linguistics and alcohol.

Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad, Roddi i mi galon lân.

Se Þræd Eald Englisċes

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Hrythingia wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Tolkien, is that you?

Not quite, though like Tolkien I am a catholic mediaevalist with a keen pen for stories.


Get out of here, Tolkien. You're supposed to be dead.
Eodor wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Do you want Crusades? Because this is how you get Crusades.

Trazyn the Infinite encourages Imperial forces to embark on the Indomitus Crusade after the Fall of Cadia. Circa. M42
Proctopeo wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Come back when the French aren't protesting about something. That's real news.

"President Macron, the peasants are revolting!"
"I'm well aware of that, they don't even bathe. Servant, bring me more wine."
The South Falls wrote:
Kannap wrote:This look isn't cute on you.

He's funding my salt mine.

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Autarkheia
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Corporate Police State

Postby Autarkheia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:19 pm

I've learned a bit of Old English, I really like it. It's useless but it's neat to see what English was like before the Normans fucked it up. It reminds me a lot of Icelandic.

If anyone wants to see what English without the Romance influence would be like, there is a conlang called Anglish which uses only words that are descended from Old English.
Mardla wrote:It is very much Old English (I actually just started learning it this earlier week). The spelling is funny, but it's actually not as different as it looks from Middle English. The main stumbling block is that there a lot more word forms, because that's how grammar works in Old English. The letter þ is "th" as in loath, and ð is th as in "loathe". "Sc" is pronounced like "sh" (for example, "scip"), although otherwise "c" is pronounced like "k" or German "c" (as is "h" in some contexts). "Girnan" for example means "desire", and that might look funny, but "g" before "i" is typically pronounced "y", so you read it aloud and suddenly you see the connection. Although there are obsolete words used, for example in the above Lord's Prayer, kingdom is "rice" (pronounced ree-keh), which is obviously nearer to "reich" than current use of "kingdom", although "kingdom" itself also comes from Old English ("cyningdom").

It's a pretty language, I'm enjoying learning it.
Old English <c> is not pronounced like German <ch> (which is what I assume you meant since German barely uses <c> on its own). It's like English <ch>, but only around some of the vowels. In that way it's like Italian, oddly enough.
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Angleter
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Postby Angleter » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:19 pm

Lyrical International Brigade wrote:

My main attraction to Anglo-Saxon is the use of the letters thorn, eth, and æ (sorry, only one of those has Android keyboard support :( ). I would love the entirely impossible event that we go back to using them for actual writing:

Douglas Adams's dolphins wrote:So long, ænd þænks for all ðe fish!


The letters þorn (lol) and are definitely useful. Not so sure about æsc.
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Autarkheia
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Postby Autarkheia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:23 pm

English has more vowel sounds than it has vowel letters, so <æ> would be useful. It's the vowel of cat /kæt/.
We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the right, a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State.

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Kubumba Tribe
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:26 pm

Angleter wrote:
Lyrical International Brigade wrote:

My main attraction to Anglo-Saxon is the use of the letters thorn, eth, and æ (sorry, only one of those has Android keyboard support :( ). I would love the entirely impossible event that we go back to using them for actual writing:



The letters þorn (lol) and are definitely useful. Not so sure about æsc.

I want those letters, they look cool.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:23 pm

The Normans ruined everything. Let's go back.
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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:04 am

The blAAtschApen wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
Nonsense.

A restoration of the House of Wessex under England's rightful king Edgar the Atheling would have spared our English cousins both the Normans and Hardrada.

This is, of course, why Scotland is the natural ruler of England; Malcolm Canmore's marriage to Edgar's sister Margaret meant that all of the Scottish monarchs from [Malcolm and Margaret's son] Edgar onwards had a better claim to the English throne than the usurpers in London.

Eventually, under James VI/I, we came into our rightful inheritance.


And how is that working out for Scotland?


From 1603 through 2015, it worked absolutely brilliantly.

We could do all sorts of evil Machiavellian imperialist stuff - colonise Northern Ireland, exterminate the Aboriginal population of Gippsland, Australia, etc., etc. - and at the end of the day everyone would just blame the English rather than us.

Not really the topic of the thread, though.

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Hrythingia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hrythingia » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:15 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:The Normans ruined everything. Let's go back.

Bugger the Normans as we say where I'm from.
The Wielderdom of Hrythingia
Þæs Ƿealdaríċe Hrýðinglondes

State type: Semi-Elective Monarchy
Leader: Earl Wynmar II of The Ashwold, Hrythwealda
Capital: Ernburh
Language: Hrystic (Old English)
Religion: Catholicism
Characteristics: Isolationist, mercantile, conservative, rural, deeply religious
Industries: sheep/beef agriculture, fishing, offshore oil, financial services
Britonnis nati, Anglis Dei Gratia! A Catholic Conservative Briton, Late Antiquities Student and Reservist Officer in training. Interests: hunting, rugby, choral music, history, literature, linguistics and alcohol.

Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad, Roddi i mi galon lân.

Se Þræd Eald Englisċes

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Hrythingland
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Postby Hrythingland » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:32 am

Bumping this, sad to see it died in my brief hiatus.
The Wielderdom of Hrythingia
Þæs Ƿealdaríċe Hrýðinglondes
Formerly Hrythingia +700 or so posts

State type: Semi-Elective Monarchy
Leader: Earl Wynmar II of The Ashwold, Hrythwealda
Capital: Ernburh
Language: Hrystic (Old English)
Religion: Catholicism
Characteristics: Isolationist, mercantile, conservative, rural, deeply religious
Industries: sheep/beef agriculture, fishing, offshore oil, financial services
Britonnis nati, Anglis Dei Gratia! A Catholic Conservative Briton, Late Antiquities Student and Reservist Officer in training. Interests: hunting, rugby, choral music, history, literature, linguistics and alcohol.
Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad, Roddi i mi galon lân.
Se Þræd Eald Englisċes|Hrythingia

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Autarkheia
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Postby Autarkheia » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:03 am

I'm also sad to see that Old English died (or rather became the abomination that is modern English).
We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the right, a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:02 am

Hrythingland wrote:Bumping this, sad to see it died in my brief hiatus.

Glad to see you back.
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Hrythingland
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Postby Hrythingland » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:05 am

Autarkheia wrote:I'm also sad to see that Old English died (or rather became the abomination that is modern English).

Modern English is no abomination, it has many beauties. Merely it is a shame OE was lost with such a small corpus of text and is not used academically as much. It should be given greater attention at school.
The Wielderdom of Hrythingia
Þæs Ƿealdaríċe Hrýðinglondes
Formerly Hrythingia +700 or so posts

State type: Semi-Elective Monarchy
Leader: Earl Wynmar II of The Ashwold, Hrythwealda
Capital: Ernburh
Language: Hrystic (Old English)
Religion: Catholicism
Characteristics: Isolationist, mercantile, conservative, rural, deeply religious
Industries: sheep/beef agriculture, fishing, offshore oil, financial services
Britonnis nati, Anglis Dei Gratia! A Catholic Conservative Briton, Late Antiquities Student and Reservist Officer in training. Interests: hunting, rugby, choral music, history, literature, linguistics and alcohol.
Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad, Roddi i mi galon lân.
Se Þræd Eald Englisċes|Hrythingia

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Autarkheia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2018
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Postby Autarkheia » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:41 am

I'm not a fan of teaching dead languages. It's a good intellectual exercise but mostly useless.

Modern English is just weird. I like its vast number of words but don't like how much Latin there is in it.
We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the right, a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State.

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Kowani
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:47 am

Autarkheia wrote:I'm not a fan of teaching dead languages. It's a good intellectual exercise but mostly useless.

Modern English is just weird. I like its vast number of words but don't like how much Latin there is in it.

Now,what’s wrong with Latin?
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Autarkheia
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Postby Autarkheia » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:49 am

Kowani wrote:Now,what’s wrong with Latin?
Latin bores me. I like Romance languages, but I wish English had stayed closer to its Germanic cousins.
We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the right, a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:52 am

Autarkheia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Now,what’s wrong with Latin?
Latin bores me. I like Romance languages, but I wish English had stayed closer to its Germanic cousins.

...Not sure whether to burn you for Heresy or not.
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Autarkheia
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Postby Autarkheia » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:53 am

Kowani wrote:...Not sure whether to burn you for Heresy or not.
That's why I hate Latin. I associate it with the Church and tradition, i.e. things I don't care about.
We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the right, a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State.

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Kowani
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:55 am

Autarkheia wrote:
Kowani wrote:...Not sure whether to burn you for Heresy or not.
That's why I hate Latin. I associate it with the Church and tradition, i.e. things I don't care about.

Ah, but you see, that’s Ecclesiastical Latin, and which is a very heavy corruption of the pure Classical Latin.
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