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Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:30 pm
by Cetacea
So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:31 pm
by Loben
Does it matter.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:31 pm
by Vassenor
Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused should your communities local Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed aas anything other than a fat old white man?


Considering how many pagan mythological figures the modern corporate Santa is an awkward mishmash of? Why not?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:33 pm
by Idzequitch
Is this cultural appropriation?

It's not a big deal. Traditionally he's an old white guy. It's not a huge deal if he's not portrayed that way.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:34 pm
by Freezic Vast
Yes, move on.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:34 pm
by Semparia
maybe we need ww3

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:35 pm
by The Huskar Social Union
Who cares, the jolly cunt aint real anyway and is knicked from a bunch of fuckers from all over the shop

So yeah, bring unto yer maori santa claus chick and her fancy cloak, it doesnt matter. There is going to be different portrayals of characters anyway, dont get worked up over it.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:38 pm
by New haven america
IDC, Santa can be whatever he wants.

Fun fact: In the tv series Recess, he was black.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:38 pm
by Ostroeuropa
I think it depends on the depiction and the logic behind it. There's been movies where Santa is a Rorschach for those around him and see him as their respective race/gender and how Santa is not actually any of them specifically.

This strikes me as acceptable and not inconsistent with the lore. There's also white dude depictions, likewise consistent with the lore given the characters history.

If you're depicting Santa as a christmas entity who is not and has not been human but just sort of happened, then depicting them as any race or gender seems fine to me provided it isn't asserted they are in fact that race/gender. (I.E, it's fine to have a santa who looks like a black woman. Because Santa is not a black woman, not a white man, and this is merely how they present themselves to us.).

If you're depicting Santa as Saint Nicholas or S.N who has transformed into a christmas entity, they pretty much should be a white male.

There's also a mishmash of these two by which you can portray Santa as Saint Nicholas who merged with the spirit of christmas, thereby ceasing to be solely a white male and capable of presenting differently, but who tends toward white maleness because it's what he's most used to.


And then we get to The Santa Clause depiction, where Santa is a title that is handed down upon the previous holders death. This interpretation is acceptable to have minorities and women too, but is likely to go over less well because it involves telling children who say "i thought Santa was a white guy" straight up "Santa's dead kid, i'm his understudy."

The worst of them is going "No, ur wrong, Santa was always a black woman."

If minorities or women are depicting Santa, they should roll with the first explanation. This might piss off some tribalists on both sides since it involves specific denial and rejection of "Black Santa" and so on at the same time as rejecting "White Santa.", but is the only means (other than Clause), by which Santa can be portrayed as a minority or woman without straining credulity beyond that which is normally expected for a Santa depiction.

In terms of "representation" however it also provides the most room to maneuver and allows multiple combinations of demographic to be presented throughout the event, and also provides a means for mall santas to explain away the situation in various means AND explain away how all the various white guy Santas look "Different.".

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:40 pm
by The Black Party
This calls for a revolution.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:41 pm
by Gartonch
Yes, he will always be an old fat white guy because... you know... :bow: WHITE SUPREMACY :bow:

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:41 pm
by Vassenor
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Who cares, the jolly cunt aint real anyway and is knicked from a bunch of fuckers from all over the shop

So yeah, bring unto yer maori santa claus chick and her fancy cloak, it doesnt matter. There is going to be different portrayals of characters anyway, dont get worked up over it.


We have enough problems already. What with the Dutch blackface thing and all.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:43 pm
by Hrythingia
Who Santa is such a mishmash of things anyway...
That said, the modern interpretation is essentially that of Saint Nicholas with a wee bit of Woden the Wanderer thrown in, plus gift bearing and red suits. I've seen all sorts of stupid interpretations of Santa, including a crucified santa in a Japanese shop window which made me unsure whether to laugh or cry.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:45 pm
by Merconitonitopia
I don't disagree with a non-white Santa in principle, but upon seeing these 'offending' Santas in question, I must remark that they aren't all that festive-looking.
A woman Santa doesn't really make much sense given we already have Mrs. Claus, although I suppose it's acceptable if she's a particularly jolly woman.
But fat? Yes, he must be fat. Let's not get carried away here.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:45 pm
by Vassenor
Bring back Saturnalia.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm
by Rusthenia
if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm
by Berhakonia
Would you rather want him being portrayed as a Roman Robin Hood, going around slapping heretics at councils?

I mean, I would

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm
by Vassenor
Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male


Why? Do you have a list of every single deity worshipped as part of the winter solstice?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:48 pm
by Rusthenia
Vassenor wrote:
Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male


Why? Do you have a list of every single deity worshipped as part of the winter solstice?


because St. Nicholas was an white male. and https://www.thoughtco.com/deities-of-th ... ce-2562976, but were talking about Santa. and must Winter deities are Male.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:49 pm
by Indo-Malaysia
Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male

We need this

Deus vult

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:49 pm
by PR New England
Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

I honestly don't care. If corporations want to make Santa woke/stunning and brave, that's okay with me because Jesus is the real focus of Christmas and Santa is just a Coca-Cola commercial. [1]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:50 pm
by Rusthenia
Indo-Malaysia wrote:
Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male

We need this

Deus vult


Deus vult? WE MUST RETAKE JERUSALEM DEUS VULT DEUS VULT!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:51 pm
by Hrythingia
PR New England wrote:
Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

I honestly don't care. If corporations want to make Santa woke/stunning and brave, that's okay with me because Jesus is the real focus of Christmas and Santa is just a Coca-Cola commercial. [1]

HEAR HEAR. I mean I'm all up for some festive cheer, mulled wine, roast goose and all the rest of it. But ultimately it is about Christ coming to earth in order to save mankind.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:51 pm
by Heloin
Santa is Saami.
Image

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:52 pm
by PR New England
Heloin wrote:Santa is Saami.

Ogay, dis is ebin :DDD