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Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Aellex wrote:
Page wrote:Hey, if Jesus can be portrayed as a white guy, Santa can be Thai or Aboriginal or something, why not?

Jesus could have been white just as much as he could have been tanned and was represented that first way since the earliest icons we've found tho.


Made 300 years after his life. I doubt any of the artists ever laid eyes on him.
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The Grim Reaper
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Postby The Grim Reaper » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:57 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Aellex wrote:Jesus could have been white just as much as he could have been tanned and was represented that first way since the earliest icons we've found tho.


Made 300 years after his life. I doubt any of the artists ever laid eyes on him.


How could one possibly not argue that Jesus wasn't Jewish by descent? The entire point of Christianity is that Jesus was an ethnically Jewish man. There's literally no justification for anything other than a Jewish Jesus.

In the same way, a cursory Wikipedia search tells me that the giftgiving St Nicholas was Turkish-born and of Greek Christian descent. He was born in Patara, which is just east of the end of the chain of islands that run through the Aegean Sea.

But the entire point is moot because Santa Claus is a damaging fictional story that represents a meaningless tradition which supplants the far more meaningful narrative of communal present-giving, family, and friendship. Every community should have its own Santa Claus, and they should dress and act the same goddamn way they do every year. Santa Claus is just a glorified, inane Secret Santa.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:06 am

Cetacea wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:New Zealand tends to have significant earthquakes every now and then, though. It evens out.

Lol every now and then in the last century being 1930 and 2011 - which admittedly is more than some other places and NZ does have 15000 minor quakes per year (sometimes hundreds per day) but other than those two big guns none of the others have been significant


You must not have been awake in November 2016.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:04 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Cetacea wrote:Lol every now and then in the last century being 1930 and 2011 - which admittedly is more than some other places and NZ does have 15000 minor quakes per year (sometimes hundreds per day) but other than those two big guns none of the others have been significant


You must not have been awake in November 2016.


You know all those headlines about people feeling earthquakes in Auckland? They're all complete rubbish. Although that one might not be since I remember talking about an earthquake about this time 2016. In any case the point is that it's pretty easy to live in NZ and not be troubled by earthquakes unless you've got rellies living in South Island/Wellington. If your point is that you know where Cetacea lives in broad terms then that's another matter.

And to the matter of whether or not people notice earthquakes? If it's not lethal, did it even happen? As it happens that quake might be the one we discussed with my uncle when we were visiting him in January 2017 and it was definitely notable (and I see 2 people died) but trust me... earthquakes don't register on the mind at all. Volcanoes are a different matter but this is more because I often have cause to contrast the flatness of some places to others...
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Amuaplye
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Postby Amuaplye » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:06 pm

Ryukyu wrote:
Amuaplye wrote:Seriously? It doesn't matter. He doesn't exist anyway.

portrayals of things that arent material are still important

santa exists as a concept

It's still an asinine thing to be arguing about. And the only thing canon about him is that he's old, a dude, fat, and has a beard. That's it.
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The Grims
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Postby The Grims » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:50 am

Amuaplye wrote:
Ryukyu wrote:portrayals of things that arent material are still important

santa exists as a concept

It's still an asinine thing to be arguing about. And the only thing canon about him is that he's old, a dude, fat, and has a beard. That's it.


Saint Nicholas is not fat.

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Great Nortend
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Postby Great Nortend » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:15 am

Considering that 'Santa Claus' or Father Christmas or whatever manifestation of the Christmas 'personage' you ascribe to, is male and derived from a Western Christian heritage (more or less), I can't see why it would be controversial that he be portrayed by a white man. It would be like portraying King Arthur as a black woman; completely ridiculous.
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The Republic Of Ardenhelm
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Postby The Republic Of Ardenhelm » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:18 am

Its a European folk myth. Enough said. 12 years a slave isnt white. European peasants were.
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:40 am

Great Nortend wrote:Considering that 'Santa Claus' or Father Christmas or whatever manifestation of the Christmas 'personage' you ascribe to, is male and derived from a Western Christian heritage (more or less), I can't see why it would be controversial that he be portrayed by a white man. It would be like portraying King Arthur as a black woman; completely ridiculous.


Yeah, about that...
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Great Nortend
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Postby Great Nortend » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:44 am

Vassenor wrote:
Great Nortend wrote:Considering that 'Santa Claus' or Father Christmas or whatever manifestation of the Christmas 'personage' you ascribe to, is male and derived from a Western Christian heritage (more or less), I can't see why it would be controversial that he be portrayed by a white man. It would be like portraying King Arthur as a black woman; completely ridiculous.


Yeah, about that...

I'm not sure if this is a joke.
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NeuPolska
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Postby NeuPolska » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:45 am

Vassenor wrote:
Great Nortend wrote:Considering that 'Santa Claus' or Father Christmas or whatever manifestation of the Christmas 'personage' you ascribe to, is male and derived from a Western Christian heritage (more or less), I can't see why it would be controversial that he be portrayed by a white man. It would be like portraying King Arthur as a black woman; completely ridiculous.


Yeah, about that...

No anime plz

It's also a white woman so still within reason given the historical ethnic parameters

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:56 am

Does anybody really care what father Christmas looks like? If they do, why on earth do they?
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:30 am

Cetacea wrote:Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

He is literally a composite character.

IIRC, as we know him today, jolly fat cunt in red "Santa Claus" is an invention of the Coca-Cola company for their Christmas campaigns over a century ago.
Elements of the Santa mythology are supposedly taken from Norwegian folk tradition - where a red and white hallucinogenic mushroom is eaten by reindeer, and you drink the piss off the reindeer and trip balls.

And of course, the fact that at least half a dozen European traditions of a present-bringer at Christmas were eventually mashed into our modern Santa.

"Chris Cringle", some Americanism of the name, is clearly descended from Kristkindel - the "Christ-child" of German myth.
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Postby Amuaplye » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:27 pm

The Grims wrote:
Amuaplye wrote:It's still an asinine thing to be arguing about. And the only thing canon about him is that he's old, a dude, fat, and has a beard. That's it.


Saint Nicholas is not fat.

Santa Claus and Saint Nicholas are different. One was an actual person, the other isn't. And if you want proof that Santa is fat, how about this line:

He had a broad face and a little round belly
That shook when he laughed, like a bowl full of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself,


- Clement C. Moore, A Visit from St. Nicholas
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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:07 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Cetacea wrote:Lol every now and then in the last century being 1930 and 2011 - which admittedly is more than some other places and NZ does have 15000 minor quakes per year (sometimes hundreds per day) but other than those two big guns none of the others have been significant


You must not have been awake in November 2016.


Well My sources say that was a sonic attack from US interest to cover fracking operations

It yes I do concede that was a fair shake, though since I forgot it not particularly significant

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:26 pm

Cetacea wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
You must not have been awake in November 2016.


Well My sources say that was a sonic attack from US interest to cover fracking operations

It yes I do concede that was a fair shake, though since I forgot it not particularly significant


TBF I was much closer than you two.

Going back to Santa, Wellington has now adopted Hana Koko as their own now.
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Hurdergaryp
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:50 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Cetacea wrote:Well My sources say that was a sonic attack from US interest to cover fracking operations

It yes I do concede that was a fair shake, though since I forgot it not particularly significant

TBF I was much closer than you two.

Going back to Santa, Wellington has now adopted Hana Koko as their own now.

That does appear to be the case, yes. Hana Koko certainly looks healthier than morbid obesity poster child Santa Claus, so I approve. It is all about positive role models, after all.

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UniversalCommons
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Postby UniversalCommons » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:14 pm

Anyone who can fit into a costume and wear a pillow for their gut can be Santa. Manhattan has a Santa festival, groups of Santa's often get drunk and have fist fights. There are a lot of black Santa's in the African American neighborhoods in the United States.

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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:19 pm

Amuaplye wrote:
The Grims wrote:
Saint Nicholas is not fat.

Santa Claus and Saint Nicholas are different. One was an actual person, the other isn't. And if you want proof that Santa is fat, how about this line:

He had a broad face and a little round belly
That shook when he laughed, like a bowl full of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself,


- Clement C. Moore, A Visit from St. Nicholas


Elf? Small

Belly? LITTLE

Who pulled the sleigh for this behemoth? Eight TINY reindeer.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:32 pm

UniversalCommons wrote:Anyone who can fit into a costume and wear a pillow for their gut can be Santa. Manhattan has a Santa festival, groups of Santa's often get drunk and have fist fights. There are a lot of black Santa's in the African American neighborhoods in the United States.


No, they’re just Santas representatives, the real Santa works for and secretly owns Coca-Cola.
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Hurdergaryp
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:39 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
UniversalCommons wrote:Anyone who can fit into a costume and wear a pillow for their gut can be Santa. Manhattan has a Santa festival, groups of Santa's often get drunk and have fist fights. There are a lot of black Santa's in the African American neighborhoods in the United States.

No, they’re just Santas representatives, the real Santa works for and secretly owns Coca-Cola.

So what happened to the bishop of Myra who attained sainthood?

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:42 pm

The mythology of santa is totally unimportant towards the portrayal of santa. The nature of mythology is that we made a bunch of shit up, saying santa can't be a different size or race because that's not true to classic depictions is like saying you can't paint a wall yellow because that's not what color the wall is.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:43 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:No, they’re just Santas representatives, the real Santa works for and secretly owns Coca-Cola.

So what happened to the bishop of Myra who attained sainthood?


Well, he died. It’s a harsh requirement to receive sainthood. :p
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Hurdergaryp
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:So what happened to the bishop of Myra who attained sainthood?

Well, he died. It’s a harsh requirement to receive sainthood. :p

Saint Nicholas is endless.

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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:02 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:Well, he died. It’s a harsh requirement to receive sainthood. :p

Saint Nicholas is endless.


He comes back to walk among the living every year, on October 31st.
Last edited by Dooom35796821595 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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