Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

by **Vassenor** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:38 pm

Skarten wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
What is the logic for him being white anyway, especially when a good chunk of the scholarly texts refer to him as a Galilean Israelite? And yes, there weren't a whole lot of Northern Europeans in the Levant in the first century CE.

Where is the source though. Just saying "Probably" Doesn't count. Plus ,the Israelites were from many different tribes, you can't simply lump every single judean as one

Considering the Bible says precisely squat about what he looks like, the best we can do is infer from the community he's established as living in.

So how do we get him being white from that?

by **Skarten** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:39 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Skarten wrote:Where is the source though. Just saying "Probably" Doesn't count. Plus ,the Israelites were from many different tribes, you can't simply lump every single judean as one

Considering the Bible says precisely squat about what he looks like, the best we can do is infer from the community he's established as living in.

So how do we get him being white from that?

You still didn't mention the source.

by **Vassenor** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:41 pm

Skarten wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Considering the Bible says precisely squat about what he looks like, the best we can do is infer from the community he's established as living in.

So how do we get him being white from that?

You still didn't mention the source.

You still haven't explained where his being white comes from.

by **Skarten** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Skarten wrote:
You still didn't mention the source.

You still haven't explained where his being white comes from.

B U R D E N O F P R O O F

Once you have an actual source, then i'll give mine

by **Valrifell** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Skarten wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
It's not just "not a bad tradition" it's a purely aesthetic tradition. As in, it completely doesn't matter and I don't understand anyone who gets hung up on this point.

"Just Aesthetic"

B O I

Santa, absolute unit as he might be, does not need to be a hefty older white gentleman for his role to be filled. His race is purely aesthetic, with roots to a real-life person who bore, at best, a passing resemblance to him.

by **Skarten** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:44 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Skarten wrote:
"Just Aesthetic"

B O I

Santa, absolute unit as he might be, does not need to be a hefty older white gentleman for his role to be filled. His race is purely aesthetic, with roots to a real-life person who bore, at best, a passing resemblance to him.

The thing about it is that Santa Claus's concept pretty much comes from Saint Nicholas. He was based on him.

by **Vassenor** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:45 pm

Skarten wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Santa, absolute unit as he might be, does not need to be a hefty older white gentleman for his role to be filled. His race is purely aesthetic, with roots to a real-life person who bore, at best, a passing resemblance to him.

The thing about it is that Santa Claus's concept pretty much comes from Saint Nicholas. He was based on him.

And what primary evidence do we have for him being white?

by **Skarten** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Skarten wrote:
The thing about it is that Santa Claus's concept pretty much comes from Saint Nicholas. He was based on him.

And what primary evidence do we have for him being white?

His ethnicty, place of birth, the period, etc. Once again, it might SHOCK you, but anatolia wasn't ALWAYS TURKISH! WHO COULD'VE IMAGINED!

by **Vassenor** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Skarten wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
You still haven't explained where his being white comes from.

B U R D E N O F P R O O F

Once you have an actual source, then i'll give mine

So you're going to keep ducking providing evidence for your own claims. Got it.

But let's take this from the top.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/what-did-jesus-really-look-like-as-a-jew-in-1st-century-judaea-1.3385334
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35120965
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-a-forensic-pilgrimage-a-scholar-asks-what-did-jesus-look-like/

by **Vassenor** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Skarten wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what primary evidence do we have for him being white?

His ethnicty, place of birth, the period, etc. Once again, it might SHOCK you, but anatolia wasn't ALWAYS TURKISH! WHO COULD'VE IMAGINED!

But when I bring those up as evidence for a person not being white as the driven snow it's invalid.

by **Skarten** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Skarten wrote:
His ethnicty, place of birth, the period, etc. Once again, it might SHOCK you, but anatolia wasn't ALWAYS TURKISH! WHO COULD'VE IMAGINED!

But when I bring those up as evidence for a person not being white as the driven snow it's invalid.

What do you mean by driven snow? I said he was white, not an Norse Albino

by **Valrifell** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:53 pm

Skarten wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But when I bring those up as evidence for a person not being white as the driven snow it's invalid.

What do you mean by driven snow? I said he was white, not an Norse Albino

*laughs in Father Christmas*

by **South Ccanda** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Skarten wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So what evidence do you have that Jesus was white rather than a Middle Eastern Jew?

What evidence do you have that he wasn't white, other than "He was in the middle east, thus he can't be white."

You're the one who has to provide proof, you're the accuser.

There is no definitive proof that Jesus Christ is not white, just high probability that he was not white. Its all purely speculation.

by **Costa Fierro** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:00 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Skarten wrote:
The thing about it is that Santa Claus's concept pretty much comes from Saint Nicholas. He was based on him.

And what primary evidence do we have for him being white?

Mostly cultural depictions since modern Santa's inception in the 1820's. Considering that Santa is an amalgamation of both British and Dutch figures, it would be safe to assume that depictions of Santa Claus, both of which were also depicted as "white" because they were European figures.

by **Hurdergaryp** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Semparia wrote:maybe we need ww3

Christmas spirit: you're doing it wrong.

by **South Ccanda** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:31 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Semparia wrote:maybe we need ww3

Christmas spirit: you're doing it wrong.

"Did you just assume my Santa?"

by **The Galactic Liberal Democracy** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:38 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Semparia wrote:maybe we need ww3

Christmas spirit: you're doing it wrong.

Are you sure? Both Christmas and WW3 will bring huge profits this year. Perhaps we could combine them and the economy would be better than ever. The best it’s been in 2000 years. Maybe we need WW3. In the meantime, let’s take some oil from the Middle East. I can imagine the billions and billions, no, actually trillions. This is a great idea. DO IT.

by **Forsher** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:58 pm

Alvecia wrote:
Forsher wrote:
The differences between comic book characters which are created by people and then given over to the creative control of potentially hundreds of other characters and Santa Claus being?

John Bull, Uncle Sam and Justice are abstract concepts. Santa Claus is very much in the vein of comic book characters with a broadly fixed origin story, supporting cast and so forth...

Like most comic book characters then, I assume they can be cosplayed by people of any age/gender/colour.

Cosplayers rarely ignore any of the key iconography (even if they might choose different costumes if a character has been associated with a variety of looks), which is the standard I proposed above.

by **The Grims** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:34 pm

Skarten wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Santa, absolute unit as he might be, does not need to be a hefty older white gentleman for his role to be filled. His race is purely aesthetic, with roots to a real-life person who bore, at best, a passing resemblance to him.

The thing about it is that Santa Claus's concept pretty much comes from Saint Nicholas. He was based on him.

Considering the father christmas character predates saint nicholas (and Christ) that is obviously untrue. Only the name is recent.

Besides, Saint Nicholas is thin and long. Ask Europeans.

by **Costa Fierro** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:23 pm

And we wonder why the people of this city get stereotyped as being racist rednecks. Which is ironic given what happened a couple of weeks ago.

by **Alvecia** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:22 am

Cetacea wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Quite a few superheroes have had different incarnations. Superman is actually one of the few who hasn’t, though he’s ripe for it, with several different Kryptonians who could take up the mantle if needs be.

Damn. It looks good on him.

by **The Blaatschapen** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:30 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Semparia wrote:maybe we need ww3

Christmas spirit: you're doing it wrong.

Please, given the amount of stress that christmas gives to families all, around the world, this is quite in line.

by **Costa Fierro** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:07 am

Ah, the local Facebook page that shared a post from someone who made a "comic" making disparaging comments about the person who portrayed Hana Kōkō that garnered national attention is now banning people who say that the criticism of it was racist.

I fucking hate this place.

by **The Emerald Legion** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:23 am

Proposal.

Let's celebrate Viking Christmas instead. Sacrifice meat and wine to Odin in the hopes that his terrifying fae army doesn't kill us all.

by **The Huskar Social Union** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:33 am

Costa Fierro wrote:Ah, the local Facebook page that shared a post from someone who made a "comic" making disparaging comments about the person who portrayed Hana Kōkō that garnered national attention is now banning people who say that the criticism of it was racist.

I fucking hate this place.

What were people saying was racist about it?

Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

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