Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

[Annihitor the Incred]

NNOOO ffs. ever watched the movies? they love their jobs, making children happy. and again, magical reindeer that fly.
*EDIT*I'm sure he brings food along

I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit. Seriously. Many films of work camps and the like were actually faked to make them look good. I remember seeing one of the USSR, and another one in the Congo. However, I can't remember their names, so excuse me for that. MAGIC ISN'T AN EXCUSE. Who knows?

What a good meme.

[Europan New Germania]

I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit. Seriously. Many films of work camps and the like were actually faked to make them look good. I remember seeing one of the USSR, and another one in the Congo. However, I can't remember their names, so excuse me for that. MAGIC ISN'T AN EXCUSE. Who knows?

What a good meme.

It's honesty.

[Annihitor the Incred]

What a good meme.

It's honesty.

Whatever you say.

[Chernoslavia]

Elves are slaves, and he abuses reindeer. I think.

Elves are apart of the North Pole commune and collectively own the means of the present production, Santa is just the delivery boy.

Commune..? Communist....COMMUNISTS!!

[Aclion]

Personally i've alway found the idea of one guy reading a letter from every child on earth(just learning all those languages would be a teat in itself) traveling to every child's home in one night and delivering presents to be somewhat unlikely. There's probably more then one, which would explain why so many different cultures depict him differently. They actually are different guys.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Elves are apart of the North Pole commune and collectively own the means of the present production, Santa is just the delivery boy.

Commune..? Communist....COMMUNISTS!!

You called, comrade?

[Central Asian Republics]

Though I don't believe Santa must be white, being a traditionally paternalistic figure you would expect him to at least be fat, old and male.

[Andsed]

What a good meme.

It's honesty.

Well lookey here someone who actually believes the stupid jokes of Santa being a pedo/slaver/stalker/animal abuser. I did not think someone would actually take those jokes seriously like this and then makes themselves look stupid online by trying to ¨prove¨ that a fictional character is a pedo/slaver/stalker/animal abuser.

[Caembug]

I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit. Seriously. Many films of work camps and the like were actually faked to make them look good. I remember seeing one of the USSR, and another one in the Congo. However, I can't remember their names, so excuse me for that. MAGIC ISN'T AN EXCUSE. Who knows?

EDIT: Slavery is still slavery, regardless of consent.

just asking under that definition are volunteer workers slaves?

[USS Monitor]

Pretty sure I've seen a black Santa before. Santa is supposed to be a fat old guy, but I don't think white is necessarily part of the character, and I don't think there's anything wrong with, for example, having an event with "Mrs. Claus" and telling kids she is helping him spread Christmas cheer because they have so many gifts to give out it's not really a one-person job. Or just using other characters. Get some random people to dress up as Santa's elves, whatever.

Also, if someone fucks this up, I think it's enough to just say, "Dude, since when does Santa look like that? Maybe next time get a regular Santa."

[The New California Republic]

Pretty sure I've seen a black Santa before. Santa is supposed to be a fat old guy, but I don't think white is necessarily part of the character, and I don't think there's anything wrong with, for example, having an event with "Mrs. Claus" and telling kids she is helping him spread Christmas cheer because they have so many gifts to give out it's not really a one-person job. Or just using other characters. Get some random people to dress up as Santa's elves, whatever.

Also, if someone fucks this up, I think it's enough to just say, "Dude, since when does Santa look like that? Maybe next time get a regular Santa."

I think adults are able to comprehend and cope with Santa being depicted as something different, but kids are likely to just cry and start screaming for the "real" Santa.

[USS Monitor]

I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit. Seriously. Many films of work camps and the like were actually faked to make them look good. I remember seeing one of the USSR, and another one in the Congo. However, I can't remember their names, so excuse me for that. MAGIC ISN'T AN EXCUSE. Who knows?

EDIT: Slavery is still slavery, regardless of consent.

just asking under that definition are volunteer workers slaves?

Not exactly, but volunteer work can be damaging when it represents too large a part of the economy. And unpaid internships are pretty awful.

[Europan New Germania]

It's honesty.

Well lookey here someone who actually believes the stupid jokes of Santa being a pedo/slaver/stalker/animal abuser. I did not think someone would actually take those jokes seriously like this and then makes themselves look stupid online by trying to ¨prove¨ that a fictional character is a pedo/slaver/stalker/animal abuser.

I know. It seems stupid but I just wanted to point it out. To me, it felt like that people were missing the facts. I figured this out on my own, without any outside help. Seems unlikely, but you don't need to believe it.

[Annihitor the Incred]

To me, it's like saying "Can Emperor Palpatine be an obese 25-year old woman?" It's a fictional character that looks a certain way. You want something different, create a new character.

Besides, Coca-Cola should have the rights to that abomination.

[USS Monitor]

Pretty sure I've seen a black Santa before. Santa is supposed to be a fat old guy, but I don't think white is necessarily part of the character, and I don't think there's anything wrong with, for example, having an event with "Mrs. Claus" and telling kids she is helping him spread Christmas cheer because they have so many gifts to give out it's not really a one-person job. Or just using other characters. Get some random people to dress up as Santa's elves, whatever.

Also, if someone fucks this up, I think it's enough to just say, "Dude, since when does Santa look like that? Maybe next time get a regular Santa."

I think adults are able to comprehend and cope with Santa being depicted as something different, but kids are likely to just cry and start screaming for the "real" Santa.

That's why you tell them it's "Mrs. Claus" if you get a woman.

[The New California Republic]

I think adults are able to comprehend and cope with Santa being depicted as something different, but kids are likely to just cry and start screaming for the "real" Santa.

That's why you tell them it's "Mrs. Claus" if you get a woman.

Indeed, but I was thinking if Santa was played by a person of different race, or noticeably younger age etc.

[Europan New Germania]

I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit. Seriously. Many films of work camps and the like were actually faked to make them look good. I remember seeing one of the USSR, and another one in the Congo. However, I can't remember their names, so excuse me for that. MAGIC ISN'T AN EXCUSE. Who knows?

EDIT: Slavery is still slavery, regardless of consent.

just asking under that definition are volunteer workers slaves?

No (Although it could argued to be so, but that's for a different time). The definition's more complex than that. It's something along the lines of:
Work is slavery if it does not meet the following criteria:
1. It is voluntary.
2. It is paid in currency rather than food, shelter or other needs. (That's a key difference as many slaves got 'paid' in the right to eat)
2a. An exception to this is obvious charity work, where it's upfront about no payment, and likewise does not pay in needs, only the feeling of doing good.
3. The worker must have the right to quit at any time, with no consequence except the loss of things obtained through the work, and is likewise not considered property of the employer.
EDIT: Note that 'voluntary' under this case means that the worker is not being coerced into keeping their job in any manner, whether it is the threat of starvation, corporal or capital punishment, brainwashing, etc..

If you have any other criteria, tell me.

[Andsed]

Well lookey here someone who actually believes the stupid jokes of Santa being a pedo/slaver/stalker/animal abuser. I did not think someone would actually take those jokes seriously like this and then makes themselves look stupid online by trying to ¨prove¨ that a fictional character is a pedo/slaver/stalker/animal abuser.

I know. It seems stupid but I just wanted to point it out. To me, it felt like that people were missing the facts. I figured this out on my own, without any outside help. Seems unlikely, but you don't need to believe it.

Well good because none of us are going to believe these idiotic theories so they are pointless to post in here. If you want to make yourself look like a crazy conspiracy theorist be my guest but all of us will be rolling our eyes.

[Dylar]

[Europan New Germania]

(Image)

I agree. Modern Santa is basically just a consumerist symbol. If we even need to have someone like him, can we have St. Nick please?

[South Ccanda]

NNOOO ffs. ever watched the movies? they love their jobs, making children happy. and again, magical reindeer that fly.
*EDIT*I'm sure he brings food along

I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit. Seriously. Many films of work camps and the like were actually faked to make them look good. I remember seeing one of the USSR, and another one in the Congo. However, I can't remember their names, so excuse me for that. MAGIC ISN'T AN EXCUSE. Who knows?

EDIT: Slavery is still slavery, regardless of consent.

"Slavery is still slavery, regardless of consent." may be the dumbest thing i have ever read, but I know it isn't, because this is. "I'm pretty sure the films can be changed a bit."

Stop...just...stop.

[Vassenor]

The question is, must Santa always be a slave master and animal abuser? Steering the debate a little, doesn't this make us wonder what Santa really represents:
The fat, white, male, old, Victorian-Era factory/slave owner. It is for this reason that he is what he is. He is the representation of the Victorian capitalist, hidden under a tray of presents given as moral bribes. In fact, it is also of suspicion that his gifts are usually given based upon the wealth of the child's parents, rather than how good they are. In fact, he might as well be the symbol of capitalism.

Where is he portrayed as a slave owner or and animal abuser?

Dutch Santa has slaves typically portrayed by people in blackface.

[South Ccanda]

just asking under that definition are volunteer workers slaves?

No (Although it could argued to be so, but that's for a different time). The definition's more complex than that. It's something along the lines of:
Work is slavery if it does not meet the following criteria:
1. It is voluntary.
2. It is paid in currency rather than food, shelter or other needs. (That's a key difference as many slaves got 'paid' in the right to eat)
2a. An exception to this is obvious charity work, where it's upfront about no payment, and likewise does not pay in needs, only the feeling of doing good.
3. The worker must have the right to quit at any time, with no consequence except the loss of things obtained through the work, and is likewise not considered property of the employer.
EDIT: Note that 'voluntary' under this case means that the worker is not being coerced into keeping their job in any manner, whether it is the threat of starvation, corporal or capital punishment, brainwashing, etc..

If you have any other criteria, tell me.

The elves meet all those criteria lol.

[South Ccanda]

Where is he portrayed as a slave owner or and animal abuser?

Dutch Santa has slaves typically portrayed by people in blackface.

okay, but then you have to look at the keywords. "Dutch Santa"

[Europan New Germania]

No (Although it could argued to be so, but that's for a different time). The definition's more complex than that. It's something along the lines of:
Work is slavery if it does not meet the following criteria:
1. It is voluntary.
2. It is paid in currency rather than food, shelter or other needs. (That's a key difference as many slaves got 'paid' in the right to eat)
2a. An exception to this is obvious charity work, where it's upfront about no payment, and likewise does not pay in needs, only the feeling of doing good.
3. The worker must have the right to quit at any time, with no consequence except the loss of things obtained through the work, and is likewise not considered property of the employer.
EDIT: Note that 'voluntary' under this case means that the worker is not being coerced into keeping their job in any manner, whether it is the threat of starvation, corporal or capital punishment, brainwashing, etc..

If you have any other criteria, tell me.

The elves meet all those criteria lol.

They're right, this fight isn't worth it. But I'll reply: Explain how.