Public Areas Smoking Ban

[Gun Manufacturers]

So this has been something that has increasingly annoying as of late, given my recent move to a large city (UK for context). Sure, smoking is banned in all enclosed spaces - which is undeniably a great thing. But this is not the heart of my problem. Why is it still allowed in public areas and specifically, on the streets?

This clearly violates health principles. When you are walking on the street with people smoking, you are going to be inhaling smoke passively, and this has been considered to be a huge health hazard as shown by numerous medical studies. So why is it still tolerated? I don't get it. I couldn't care less what the price of cigarettes are or where you get them from. Just don't do it in public. I'm not saying don't smoke. I'm saying don't smoke in public. If you feel it is that necessary to willingly shorten your lifespan, feel free to do so - in private. A clear violation of the harm principle. I couldn't care what you do in private as long as it doesn't harm others. In a perfect world, smokers would have the decency or self-awareness to avoid doing so.

The only smoking I do involves charcoal, wood, and various cuts of meat.

[Hrythingia]

So this has been something that has increasingly annoying as of late, given my recent move to a large city (UK for context). Sure, smoking is banned in all enclosed spaces - which is undeniably a great thing. But this is not the heart of my problem. Why is it still allowed in public areas and specifically, on the streets?

This clearly violates health principles. When you are walking on the street with people smoking, you are going to be inhaling smoke passively, and this has been considered to be a huge health hazard as shown by numerous medical studies. So why is it still tolerated? I don't get it. I couldn't care less what the price of cigarettes are or where you get them from. Just don't do it in public. I'm not saying don't smoke. I'm saying don't smoke in public. If you feel it is that necessary to willingly shorten your lifespan, feel free to do so - in private. A clear violation of the harm principle. I couldn't care what you do in private as long as it doesn't harm others. In a perfect world, smokers would have the decency or self-awareness to avoid doing so.

The only smoking I do involves charcoal, wood, and various cuts of meat.

Smoking meat is very wholesome. Nothing better than smoking and eating the meat you have hunted.

[South Ccanda]

The only smoking I do involves charcoal, wood, and various cuts of meat.

Smoking meat is very wholesome. Nothing better than smoking and eating the meat you have hunted.

unless you are my brother who literally disintegrated a thanksgiving turkey.

[Hrythingia]

Smoking meat is very wholesome. Nothing better than smoking and eating the meat you have hunted.

unless you are my brother who literally disintegrated a thanksgiving turkey.

Oh crumbs! That's just burning though

[Luziyca]

I feel that it's better to smoke outside: while I am only a fan of the smell of cigarette smoke and hate people smoking indoors, there's plenty of room for all of us.

[Abarri]

Maybe it's because there are some smokers who...

...deliberately want to worsen air pollution (improbable, I hope);
...pretend smoking is harmless;
...find it hard to smoke Indoors;
...do not grasp the consequences of smoking.

Unfortunately, in where I live, the so-called Public Smoking Ban seems ineffective because

...of a strong tobacco company lobby;
...the supposed enforcers themselves smoke;
...people seem to have accepted that public smoking cannot be curbed.

(This is anecdotal by the way).

To the smokers, I'd suggest discretion; if there's no one in an open space then fine they may smoke, but if there's other people, it would be better if the smokers did it somewhere else.

Frankly I believe that it is never the nonsmoker's duty to adjust to the wants and needs of the person who chose to smoke tobacco products in the first place.

[Senkaku]

Eh, parks and stuff are okay to go smoke a joint now and then imo, but it pisses me off and makes me cough when people are just out there on the sidewalk trying to gas me w their nasty ass cigarette smoke while I'm walking lol (and plumes of vape smoke aren't really much better tbh)

And smoking inside is just gross no matter what it is

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Eh, parks and stuff are okay to go smoke a joint now and then imo, but it pisses me off and makes me cough when people are just out there on the sidewalk trying to gas me w their nasty ass cigarette smoke while I'm walking lol (and plumes of vape smoke aren't really much better tbh)

And smoking inside is just gross no matter what it is

Smoking inside is just egoism incarnate, because it effectively shows that the smoker in question has little to no regards about the health of the loved ones who might be living with him or his personal possessions and home being dirtied by gradual buildup of this crap.

[NeuPolska]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

OP, may I see your internet license, your OP-privilege license, and your opinion license? Presumably, you must also have a computer or phone license as well?

Leave people alone, stop forcing the law down everyone's throats. They say the West won the Cold War but did we really? Did we really defeat communism/totalitarianism when we actively want new freedom-limiting laws "for the good of the people?" Leave indoor smoking up to the business that owns the establishment, and let the common man light a cigarette on the street when he's feeling down. Cigarettes are losing favor as it is, JUUL and vapes are what's in nowadays anyways.

[South Ccanda]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

OP, may I see your internet license, your OP-privilege license, and your opinion license? Presumably, you must also have a computer or phone license as well?

Leave people alone, stop forcing the law down everyone's throats. They say the West won the Cold War but did we really? Did we really defeat communism/totalitarianism when we actively want new freedom-limiting laws "for the good of the people?" Leave indoor smoking up to the business that owns the establishment, and let the common man light a cigarette on the street when he's feeling down. Cigarettes are losing favor as it is, JUUL and vapes are what's in nowadays anyways.

Well, OP lives in the UK, but the USA, for some reason, has ever growing socialist and communist parties.We are becoming what we fought so hard to destroy.

[The New California Republic]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

OP, may I see your internet license, your OP-privilege license, and your opinion license? Presumably, you must also have a computer or phone license as well?

Leave people alone, stop forcing the law down everyone's throats. They say the West won the Cold War but did we really? Did we really defeat communism/totalitarianism when we actively want new freedom-limiting laws "for the good of the people?" Leave indoor smoking up to the business that owns the establishment, and let the common man light a cigarette on the street when he's feeling down. Cigarettes are losing favor as it is, JUUL and vapes are what's in nowadays anyways.

Sorry, you are far too late. Smoking is already banned in pubs and restaurants.

[Former Citizens of the Nimbus System]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

OP, may I see your internet license, your OP-privilege license, and your opinion license? Presumably, you must also have a computer or phone license as well?

Leave people alone, stop forcing the law down everyone's throats. They say the West won the Cold War but did we really? Did we really defeat communism/totalitarianism when we actively want new freedom-limiting laws "for the good of the people?" Leave indoor smoking up to the business that owns the establishment, and let the common man light a cigarette on the street when he's feeling down. Cigarettes are losing favor as it is, JUUL and vapes are what's in nowadays anyways.

Freedom, in my view, must exist in service of the good. Where the good (and for me that means Aristotelian eudaimonia) is not served by freedom, freedom should not exist. Communism and totalitarianism go far too far the other way - individuals are unique, after all, with unique needs and desires, and that uniqueness cannot be easily catered to by government - but that should not make us fearful of imposing law where law serves the good better than freedom does.

[Major-Tom]

I don’t pariculary care if people smoke around me. Even after having quit the habit myself, I just don’t see it as something I need to worry about on a day to day basis - that is, I’m skeptical that inhaling “2nd hand smoke” is actually going to cause me real harm.

I’m sure for some - asthmatics, whatever it be, they probably do have problems with 2nd hand smoke, and I understand that. But for myself, personally? Couldn’t care less.

[Senkaku]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

We exported cigarettes (and now we're exporting vapes) and modern smoking culture to the world, so it seems rather silly to complain about anti-smoking tendencies as some sort of Anglo encroachment when cigarettes themselves have been for decades.

[Hrythingia]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

OP, may I see your internet license, your OP-privilege license, and your opinion license? Presumably, you must also have a computer or phone license as well?

Leave people alone, stop forcing the law down everyone's throats. They say the West won the Cold War but did we really? Did we really defeat communism/totalitarianism when we actively want new freedom-limiting laws "for the good of the people?" Leave indoor smoking up to the business that owns the establishment, and let the common man light a cigarette on the street when he's feeling down. Cigarettes are losing favor as it is, JUUL and vapes are what's in nowadays anyways.

Ha ha, the license thing is funny because its almost true. Americans would have an aneurism if they tried to buy a firearm here alas. Having said that, vapes are about as in as bloody fidget spinners. The only people I know who vape are very rum individuals indeed.

[Major-Tom]

This is the most Anglo thread in existence.

OP, may I see your internet license, your OP-privilege license, and your opinion license? Presumably, you must also have a computer or phone license as well?

Leave people alone, stop forcing the law down everyone's throats. They say the West won the Cold War but did we really? Did we really defeat communism/totalitarianism when we actively want new freedom-limiting laws "for the good of the people?" Leave indoor smoking up to the business that owns the establishment, and let the common man light a cigarette on the street when he's feeling down. Cigarettes are losing favor as it is, JUUL and vapes are what's in nowadays anyways.

Ha ha, the license thing is funny because its almost true. Americans would have an aneurism if they tried to buy a firearm here alas. Having said that, vapes are about as in as bloody fidget spinners. The only people I know who vape are very rum individuals indeed.

Perhaps in the UK they’re less common, but the e-cigarette market in the US is expansive. Most of my peers, friends, even family members all have opted for vapes (IE Juul, Suorin) over traditional cigarettes. It’s a booming market, one that has been growing rapidly for years. I myself don’t use e-cigarettes neither, but the fact that so many people are using those as opposed to ciggies is probably a good thing.

For those who used to chew tobacco, I’ve found brands like Zyn (my personal choice for nicotine) to be growing in popularity. Discreet, tobacco free and you can just pop em in your lower lip like snus.

[Diopolis]

It is a great shame. There are no longer any real pubs left in Britain since you cannot smoke inside them -nothing better than the smoky interior of a thatched pub to go with your real ale and humongous roast lunch over a few smokes or maybe on a special occasion some cigars.

That sounds good... we have a few in America that still let you smoke inside. Pity it's typically cigarettes rather than cigars and pipes(which are, after all, much better smelling, and healthier).

[Hrythingia]

Ha ha, the license thing is funny because its almost true. Americans would have an aneurism if they tried to buy a firearm here alas. Having said that, vapes are about as in as bloody fidget spinners. The only people I know who vape are very rum individuals indeed.

Perhaps in the UK they’re less common, but the e-cigarette market in the US is expansive. Most of my peers, friends, even family members all have opted for vapes (IE Juul, Suorin) over traditional cigarettes. It’s a booming market, one that has been growing rapidly for years. I myself don’t use e-cigarettes neither, but the fact that so many people are using those as opposed to ciggies is probably a good thing.

For those who used to chew tobacco, I’ve found brands like Zyn (my personal choice for nicotine) to be growing in popularity. Discreet, tobacco free and you can just pop em in your lower lip like snus.

They're becoming a wee bit more common but everyone who has it suddenly thinks they are the shit for vaping. In fact its gotten to the point where I can fairly accurately predict if someone vapes based on what they're wearing -though I'll concede I am a judgemental arsehole at the best of times.

I have bad memories of snus ha ha. One rowdy night in the Officer's Mess led me to accidentally end up washing it down with my drink. Mad night.

[Forsher]

Almost everywhere people want to ban smoking, you cannot drink alcohol already (or the premises need a licence to let you do so). Seems pretty straightforward to me (especially because alcohol isn't inherently bad for other people and nor is it immediately even noticeable to others).

People get to drive cars and spit out all the noxious fumes that come with that. As long as it's outside, how is cigarette smoking particularly worse? Indoor smoking is not a good idea, though it should still be decided by the business in question whether or not they allow it rather than the state.

Manslaughter's worse than murder but we still ban both of them.

Cars are also regulated... not enough, it's true... but they are controlled in ways that smoking isn't. And while dangerous they also have benefits. Fuel is also taxed in ways not entirely dissimilar to cigarettes.

And, in general, where people want to ban smoking, driving is likewise banned. (And, in any case, people are starting to talk about banning fossil fuel cars.)

There are lots of problems with this line of reasoning and while none of them are necessarily lethal by themselves, when you add them together...

It is a great shame. There are no longer any real pubs left in Britain since you cannot smoke inside them -nothing better than the smoky interior of a thatched pub to go with your real ale and humongous roast lunch over a few smokes or maybe on a special occasion some cigars.

Society is not going to collapse just because your rose-tinted stereotypes have vanished into the past.

The demise of that kind of experience has everything to do with why smoking was banned in pubs and not that smoking was banned in pubs anyway... times change.

So this has been something that has increasingly annoying as of late, given my recent move to a large city (UK for context). Sure, smoking is banned in all enclosed spaces - which is undeniably a great thing. But this is not the heart of my problem. Why is it still allowed in public areas and specifically, on the streets?

Open areas tend to have more space for the smoke to dissipate. It doesn't tend to be a problem unless people are cheek by jowl.

Great theory. Shame it doesn't work in practice.

Pay close attention to what happens to smoke and smokers in high wind conditions... they hide from the high wind and end up pooling somewhere. Now, notice what happens in low wind... the smoke still pools before eventually dissipating. In the mean time, the smoker has puffed again (and if it's a good location the smokers themselves have, again, pooled).

Again, the harm caused by passive smoking in areas that are not substantially enclosed is negligible.

So, it's a practice with harms and the costs of doing something about it are essentially free since it consists of a strongly worded sign and occasionally a reprimand from staff/passers by?

Smoking in public places should certainly be banned.

So should smoke breaks.

Ah, the disappearance of the smoko with the demise of smoking as a cultural institution has been lamented in some quarters. Turns out people are more productive when they take the occasional short break to recharge.

[The New California Republic]

Open areas tend to have more space for the smoke to dissipate. It doesn't tend to be a problem unless people are cheek by jowl.

Great theory. Shame it doesn't work in practice.

Pay close attention to what happens to smoke and smokers in high wind conditions... they hide from the high wind and end up pooling somewhere. Now, notice what happens in low wind... the smoke still pools before eventually dissipating. In the mean time, the smoker has puffed again (and if it's a good location the smokers themselves have, again, pooled).

If they end up hiding from the wind in a substantially enclosed area that isn't a designated smoking area then that is illegal anyway. And no, I have never noticed smoke pooling persistently in an outside space, even with a lot of smokers.

Again, the harm caused by passive smoking in areas that are not substantially enclosed is negligible.

So, it's a practice with harms and the costs of doing something about it are essentially free since it consists of a strongly worded sign and occasionally a reprimand from staff/passers by?

You seemed to have ignored the word negligible. There are plenty of activities that cause negligible harm that are tolerated. Banning smoking outside seems grossly disproportionate.