NationStates

Something that is even more interesting to me than Hungary being retarded again is the number of people saying "But Americans work N hours a week and they're f i n e." because like... Maybe... just Maybe it's the American model that's flawed and Western Europe (as usual, these days) has the right idea? (Of course, fucking up everything sane people have achieved this last 150 years seems to be one of the main habits of Mr. Orban, so not very surprised in Hungary fucking up once again, but that's irrelevant)

Oil exporting People wrote:

Valrifell wrote:
"You shouldn't think all migrants from the Middle East are literally mentally deficient" =/= "migrants from the Middle East are genius super soldiers"

Please attempt to read the quote chain before jumping in:

Liriena wrote:Hmmm... this sounds like the sort of problem that could be mitigated by allowing qualified workers from abroad to come live in their countries... but nah, why stop being a dick to foreigners when you can just be a dick to your own working people too?

Did you miss where they specified "qualified" or...?

Frievolk wrote:Something that is even more interesting to me than Hungary being retarded again is the number of people saying "But Americans work N hours a week and they're f i n e." because like... Maybe... just Maybe it's the American model that's flawed and Western Europe (as usual, these days) has the right idea? (Of course, fucking up everything sane people have achieved this last 150 years seems to be one of the main habits of Mr. Orban, so not very surprised in Hungary fucking up once again, but that's irrelevant)

Nah, Europe is pretty lazy, I enjoy the work culture I work in. Europe is to lax with work, and places like Greece suffer from a lack of work hours. Hell, japan works more hours in the US, and I consider the amount of hours they do overkill. So this isn’t a factor of America overworking themselves

Holy Tedalonia wrote:

Frievolk wrote:Something that is even more interesting to me than Hungary being retarded again is the number of people saying "But Americans work N hours a week and they're f i n e." because like... Maybe... just Maybe it's the American model that's flawed and Western Europe (as usual, these days) has the right idea? (Of course, fucking up everything sane people have achieved this last 150 years seems to be one of the main habits of Mr. Orban, so not very surprised in Hungary fucking up once again, but that's irrelevant)

Nah, Europe is pretty lazy, I enjoy the work culture I work in. Europe is to lax with work, and places like Greece suffer from a lack of work hours. Hell, japan works more hours in the US, and I consider the amount of hours they do overkill. So this isn’t a factor of America overworking themselves

No such thing as "lazy". Shorter work hours for higher pay is always a good thing imo, unless it becomes a necessity for it not to be otherwise (in which case that necessity should be removed, rather than straining workers to work longer hours), and honestly I always cringe at people who think it's not, both left-wing or right. (Not going into how the American model is that dumb, because its intentionally reliant on workers working longer hours for lower pay)

Frievolk wrote:

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Nah, Europe is pretty lazy, I enjoy the work culture I work in. Europe is to lax with work, and places like Greece suffer from a lack of work hours. Hell, japan works more hours in the US, and I consider the amount of hours they do overkill. So this isn’t a factor of America overworking themselves

No such thing as "lazy". Shorter work hours for higher pay is always a good thing imo, unless it becomes a necessity for it not to be otherwise (in which case that necessity should be removed, rather than straining workers to work longer hours), and honestly I always cringe at people who think it's not, both left-wing or right. (Not going into how the American model is that dumb, because its intentionally reliant on workers working longer hours for lower pay)

Shorter work hours for higher pay

You really believe your entitled to that? Well, I guess its your opinion, but I prefer more work hours for higher pay. Honestly though, the American average hours, 40 hours a week is hardly that straining, this being the opinion of first hand experience.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:

Frievolk wrote:No such thing as "lazy". Shorter work hours for higher pay is always a good thing imo, unless it becomes a necessity for it not to be otherwise (in which case that necessity should be removed, rather than straining workers to work longer hours), and honestly I always cringe at people who think it's not, both left-wing or right. (Not going into how the American model is that dumb, because its intentionally reliant on workers working longer hours for lower pay)

Shorter work hours for higher pay

You really believe your entitled to that? Well, I guess its your opinion, but I prefer more work hours for higher pay. Honestly though, the American average hours, 40 hours a week is hardly that straining, this being the opinion of first hand experience.

Actually, I believe every human is inherently entitled to a middle-class life without working at all by the virtue of being human in the first place, but that's irrelevant.

Frievolk wrote:

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Shorter work hours for higher pay

You really believe your entitled to that? Well, I guess its your opinion, but I prefer more work hours for higher pay. Honestly though, the American average hours, 40 hours a week is hardly that straining, this being the opinion of first hand experience.

Actually, I believe every human is inherently entitled to a middle-class life without working at all by the virtue of being human in the first place, but that's irrelevant.

Ever heard of the little thing called "scarcity"?

Petrolheadia wrote:

Frievolk wrote:Actually, I believe every human is inherently entitled to a middle-class life without working at all by the virtue of being human in the first place, but that's irrelevant.

Ever heard of the little thing called "scarcity"?

I said they're "entitled to it", not that they "will get it".

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Sounds like a smart deal, 400 hours would typically be 10 days worth of work in the US. 40 hours being the average for working us employees. So this would be 10 days annually in US terms. Nothing to radical, save for those opposing this bill.

You just confused 10 weeks with 10 days.

It's still something I would back.

Frievolk wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:Ever heard of the little thing called "scarcity"?

I said they're "entitled to it", not that they "will get it".

They're entitled to whatever they are willing to work for.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Frievolk wrote:Actually, I believe every human is inherently entitled to a middle-class life without working at all by the virtue of being human in the first place, but that's irrelevant.

Ever heard of the little thing called "scarcity"?

lol just snap food into existence you fuken nub

Thanos snapped half of the universe into oblivion, he can snap some goddamn bread from it.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Frievolk wrote:I said they're "entitled to it", not that they "will get it".

They're entitled to whatever they are willing to work for.

No. They're inherently entitled to have a well-off life. They are incapable of getting it however, because, as you put so eloquently "Scarcity". And that means we'll have to work with making sure they can get that well-off life despite that scarcity, rather than the honestly retarded idea of "he who does not work neither shall he eat"

Frievolk wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:Ever heard of the little thing called "scarcity"?

I said they're "entitled to it", not that they "will get it".

I’m entitled to my rights, but I am not entitled to getting a middle-class life. That’s because until we reach a future where we can have all middle-class lives, I’ll have to compete with other workers, and that means Ill have to out perform them. I have to earn my middle-class life. Save the idealism for a more ideal future.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:

Frievolk wrote:I said they're "entitled to it", not that they "will get it".

I’m entitled to my rights, but I am not entitled to getting a middle-class life. That’s because until we reach a future where we can have all middle-class lives, I’ll have to compete with other workers, and that means Ill have to out perform them. I have to earn my middle-class life. Save the idealism for a more ideal future.

And "middle-class" is relative anyway. What would be "middle-class" in, say, Ukraine would be poverty in the US.

Frievolk wrote: rather than the honestly retarded idea of "he who does not work neither shall he eat"

Why would it be retarded?

I certainly don't wanna work for some other guys sitting on their asses.

-Ocelot- wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Labour laws are not being deregulated, they are being made more flexible for the benefit of workers.

If they want to, they can work an extra three hours a week. Previously, they could not.

It's perfectly voluntary, guys! Either comply with us and work "voluntarily" until you drop, or starve. The decision is yours!

You can't be this naive.

Allow me to be blunt:

Are you illiterate?

I feel it necessary to ask this question because this is the third time you make this claim after being told the direct opposite. I am sorry but I cannot dumb it down ever further. This is as simple English as English can get.

To quote the article:

Employers won’t be allowed to penalize workers who reject extra hours

This may surprise you, but there are millions of people out there who want to work overtime to get paid more. This law allows them to do so. Previously, they could not do so even if they wanted to. Employees in Europe are not allowed to work more than 48 hours a week, unless national governments legislate an opportunity to do so in which case the employee can only work more than 48 hours if they submit a written statement to a relevant authority. Previously, the absolute legal maximum working time in Hungary was 48 hours for contract employees. In the UK, the legal maximum is also limited to 48 hours including overtime.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32003L0088

-Ocelot- wrote:They deserve it. Don't want scary brown immigrants to come into your country? Work until you drop dead.

Well, I'd say a country with a good immigrant policy deserves a good labor policy.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Sounds like a smart deal, 400 hours would typically be 10 days worth of work in the US. 40 hours being the average for working us employees. So this would be 10 days annually in US terms. Nothing to radical, save for those opposing this bill.

Tell us more about your 40 hour work day.

Frievolk wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:They're entitled to whatever they are willing to work for.

No. They're inherently entitled to have a well-off life. They are incapable of getting it however, because, as you put so eloquently "Scarcity".

Meaning they have to work hard to reach a middle-class life. Since its impossible to have everyone having a middle-class job/life, it would be a legal nightmare to have everyone be entitled to a job.

And that means we'll have to work with making sure they can get that well-off life despite that scarcity,

We’ve got better things to do, Expand onto other planets, Stop climate change, and world hunger. We can live without everyone having a middle class life. Heck, I have a low-class job and you don’t see me complaining

rather than the honestly retarded idea of "he who does not work neither shall he eat"

“If a man, can get by without working, more will pursue that life,” ‘tis not that retarded as you think. A bad idea, sure, but not retarded.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Holy Tedalonia wrote:I’m entitled to my rights, but I am not entitled to getting a middle-class life. That’s because until we reach a future where we can have all middle-class lives, I’ll have to compete with other workers, and that means Ill have to out perform them. I have to earn my middle-class life. Save the idealism for a more ideal future.

And "middle-class" is relative anyway. What would be "middle-class" in, say, Ukraine would be poverty in the US.

Frievolk wrote: rather than the honestly retarded idea of "he who does not work neither shall he eat"

Why would it be retarded?

I certainly don't wanna work for some other guys sitting on their asses.

1- Because it's against the inherent basics all humans are entitled to by the virtue of being human.

And you shouldn't have to work "for" some other guy sitting on his ass. You, as well as him, should have the right to decide whether or not you want to work in an actual "free" sense, not a "you're free to work or die" sense (as you and people like you would probably think). Anyone should have the bare necessities.
Of course, as you said, "Middle class" isn't necessarily a good word, so I'll amend my original comment: A house, healthy food, healthcare, and necessary items as such should be provided for everyone. Anything more (as in, luxurious things, recreation, etc.), and you can work for it.

I don't exactly care whether or not you think that's good or not. It's good as far as I'm concerned, and your opinion in this situation (I admit, in most situations, as I've found out in the recent few weeks) matter none as far as I'm concerned, but you'd be free to whine about it endlessly in a scenario where my ideal was achieved.

Frievolk wrote:Something that is even more interesting to me than Hungary being retarded again is the number of people saying "But Americans work N hours a week and they're f i n e." because like... Maybe... just Maybe it's the American model that's flawed and Western Europe (as usual, these days) has the right idea? (Of course, fucking up everything sane people have achieved this last 150 years seems to be one of the main habits of Mr. Orban, so not very surprised in Hungary fucking up once again, but that's irrelevant)

Hungary has the third largest wage growth on the planet, at just under 11% a year for the second year running.

Unsurprisingly, as many as 63% of Hungarians would vote for the ruling party in opinion polls.

In the words of Donald Trump, sort your own shithole out before you criticise the dust on my gold toilet seat. I don't think they care about what you think, or anyone else of your ilk.

Frievolk wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:And "middle-class" is relative anyway. What would be "middle-class" in, say, Ukraine would be poverty in the US.


Why would it be retarded?

I certainly don't wanna work for some other guys sitting on their asses.

1- Because it's against the inherent basics all humans are entitled to by the virtue of being human.

If something is "inherent", it usually means one can't make arguments for it.

Frievolk wrote:And you shouldn't have to work "for" some other guy sitting on his ass.

Thanks for understanding.

Frievolk wrote:You, as well as him, should have the right to decide whether or not you want to work in an actual "free" sense, not a "you're free to work or die" sense (as you and people like you would probably think). Anyone should have the bare necessities.

In a world where things don't spring out of thin air, working is pretty damn necessary.

Frievolk wrote:I don't exactly care whether or not you think that's good or not.

Does it mean I just won the debate?

Frievolk wrote:It's good as far as I'm concerned,

And Hitler thought the same about what he did.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Frievolk wrote:Something that is even more interesting to me than Hungary being retarded again is the number of people saying "But Americans work N hours a week and they're f i n e." because like... Maybe... just Maybe it's the American model that's flawed and Western Europe (as usual, these days) has the right idea? (Of course, fucking up everything sane people have achieved this last 150 years seems to be one of the main habits of Mr. Orban, so not very surprised in Hungary fucking up once again, but that's irrelevant)

Hungary has the third largest wage growth on the planet, at just under 11% a year for the second year running.

That's why I don't want immigrants and get annoyed at my government having taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

It's not xenophobia, it's actual calculation.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Hungary has the third largest wage growth on the planet, at just under 11% a year for the second year running.

That's why I don't want immigrants and get annoyed at my government having taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

It's not xenophobia, it's actual calculation.

It can be both. And it is.

Jakker wrote:

Oil exporting People wrote:
Because a cave dweller from Afghanistan or some rock bashing dolt from a hellhole in Africa are "qualified".

Oil exporting People, the opinion was made that qualified workers from other countries should be allowed in and you decided to use this as an opportunity to bash Afghanistan and Africa. No one was making the point that anyone is qualified and should be welcomed given the labor shortage, so your comment is solely there to troll. Your warning history is getting longer and longer and we are right at the point of considering a possible DEAT on the next offense. Keep that in mind during your absence. *** One-month ban for Trolling ***

Yet again a ban where the context is not taken into account and the offence can only be found by putting on Lennon glasses and searching through twenty layers to find something questionable.

The poster clearly questioned the sensibility of the quote, which calls for qualified workers to come (in the context of Hungary, from countries like Afghanistan) where such workers do not exist, or exist in extremely small numbers, as evidenced by, for example, the UN's statistics on mean years of schooling per country. To call these people unqualified because they on average leave education at 11, or call them 'cave dwellers' is a statement of statistical fact.

Since when is "bashing" a country/continent against the rules, and are these rules uniform or are there special rules for Afghanistan and Africa?

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:That's why I don't want immigrants and get annoyed at my government having taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

It's not xenophobia, it's actual calculation.

It can be both. And it is.

Even then, the latter part justifies the former.