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#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:23 pm
by Costa Fierro
No more dinners with female colleagues. Don’t sit next to them on flights. Book hotel rooms on different floors. Avoid one-on-one meetings.

In fact, as a wealth adviser put it, just hiring a woman these days is “an unknown risk.” What if she took something he said the wrong way?

Across Wall Street, men are adopting controversial strategies for the #MeToo era and, in the process, making life even harder for women.

Call it the Pence Effect, after U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, who has said he avoids dining alone with any woman other than his wife. In finance, the overarching impact can be, in essence, gender segregation.

Interviews with more than 30 senior executives suggest many are spooked by #MeToo and struggling to cope. “It’s creating a sense of walking on eggshells,” said David Bahnsen, a former managing director at Morgan Stanley who’s now an independent adviser overseeing more than $1.5 billion.

This is hardly a single-industry phenomenon, as men across the country check their behavior at work, to protect themselves in the face of what they consider unreasonable political correctness -- or to simply do the right thing. The upshot is forceful on Wall Street, where women are scarce in the upper ranks. The industry has also long nurtured a culture that keeps harassment complaints out of the courts and public eye, and has so far avoided a mega-scandal like the one that has engulfed Harvey Weinstein.


Source.

Because nobody totally didn't see this coming at all. It's interesting how the calls for caution from some influential women and even some feminists (and the fact that I am quoting Vox is even more surprising) were ignored by the zealous misandrists who just wanted to watch the world men burn. Because when you bite the hand that feeds you, you don't get any more food. And this is increasingly happening across most workplaces in the United States, not just in the corporate sphere. Thanks to #MeToo, women are increasingly being seen by upper management as a liability and are increasingly being isolated in the workplace.

So one would think that women would be looking for ways and means to allay men's fears about false accusations and other kinds of issues brought up in #MeToo in response to the increasingly reduced opportunities and containment of women in the workplace? According to the Bloomberg article I used for the source, it appears they've opted to double down on claims of misogyny:

“If men avoid working or traveling with women alone, or stop mentoring women for fear of being accused of sexual harassment,” he said, “those men are going to back out of a sexual harassment complaint and right into a sex discrimination complaint.”


So, who is to blame for all of this? Men, of course. Men are the ones to blame, because men always are. We're responsible for whatever women do. And the apparent solution to this rests, yet again, on the shoulders of men. We have to "step up" and "not be assholes". Because society making women responsible for their actions is clearly sexism.

However, I am heartened that more and more men are using caution when dealing with women in the workplace and not caving in to this renewed social pressure. My only sincere hope is that this spreads, and that the effects of this backlash against women in the workplace grow. This is a lesson that those who support #MeToo need to learn, so that they do not feel compelled to make the same mistakes again.

So what do we think, NSG? Is this backlash against women in the workplace justified? Is this yet more sexism from men?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:26 pm
by Sahansahiye Iran
God damn, OP. Try not to seem so excitable.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:30 pm
by Gig em Aggies
how is this sexism or men v women when its really women v men. in a sense because of the actions of a few all men are somehow labeled the same just like how people labeled all cops the same for the actions of a few. sure did the movement empower women to come forward yes but there is a price to be paid and paid it must be, and if the payment be more unintentional sexism and being "ostracized" by a lot of men in the work place then tough cheese they have to live in the hole they dug w/o thinking what's this going to do to male-female relations in the business world.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:32 pm
by Costa Fierro
Gig em Aggies wrote:how is this sexism or men v women when its really women v men. in a sense because of the actions of a few all men are somehow labeled the same just like how people labeled all cops the same for the actions of a few. sure did the movement empower women to come forward yes but there is a price to be paid and paid it must be, and if the payment be more unintentional sexism and being "ostracized" by a lot of men in the work place then tough cheese they have to live in the hole they dug w/o thinking what's this going to do to male-female relations in the business world.


That's the ideal outcome of this. Make a bed, lie in it. Sadly, this isn't how society functions.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:33 pm
by Right wing humour squad
The answer is easy. Switch to industries women have no representation in until they understand, keeps HR costs down, more productivity, less downtime. More opportunities for stability and growth.

This is the reason why my labour hire isn’t even looking at women saturated industries. Let them collapse under their own BS.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:41 pm
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
I feel like everyone missed the point of #MeToo.

Where both sides had actual points but both sides didn't debate on those valid points, rather stick to there guns and just mudsling the otherside.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:#metoo... Man this is a tough one.

In concept I like it. If people are harassed and abused then yes they have the right to speak out about it. The #metoo concept has done good things and that is good.

However, the way that some people frame it and defend it can be rather one sided.

Yes, your story of harassment is bad and I'm sorry that you went thru it. If your story is true. We can not assume the other guy is guilty just by your story. We need to know the other side and conduct a full impartial investigation first. Only then can we get him/her to a court and then decide that the person is guilty or not.
ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (“the burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies”)

#metoo could be used theoretically as a witch hunting tool. Hunting down unpopular people and charging them with false crimes could happen.

This is what people are afraid of. Sadly the defense of #metoo has mostly been "You don't believe me? YOU ARE A SEXIST PIG AND YOUR ARE EVIL!"

The defence of #metoo should include the fact that people have to respect Innocent until proven guilty.

With all that said, I still support the idea of #metoo and for people who have been abused to speak out. I encourage you to speak out if you have been hurt.

But do respect that people are Innocent until proven guilty and there not believing you comes not from misogynistic ideas, but from skepticism.

People don't know if you are lieing from just a youtube video or a tweet explaining your story. As to them it could just be a story spread around to defame and hurt someone that you don't like.

With all of that said, I don't mean to offend anyone who has used #metoo to vent legitimate grievances. If sexual abuse did happen to you, I'm sorry. It shouldn't have happened to you or anyone else. I only wish you the best and for that person who did sexuality hurt you to go step on a lego. Again, only if it really happened. As I can
not tell from just your story or your side of the coin.






But on this specifically:

Avoiding woman beacuse of a possible twitter backlash is stupid. De Facto Gender Segregation is stupid.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:42 pm
by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
The problem with #MeToo? Apparently not women getting raped, but the poor men who apparently have something to fear. We don't do this with anything else. In reality, the number of false accusations is far, far, far outstripped by the number of real acquisitions. #MeToo is practically just women coming forward with their stories, nothing more. They could do this before, of course. The only difference is that now, they are coming forward in numbers which helps build confidence. That's literally the only problem. No legislation was changed, no laws were passed. Just more women dared coming forward.

It is fine to care about possible false acquisitions. But if you don't agree that rape is also a major and systemic problem, you are not caring about it for justice. If you only care about the false acquisitions, you are basically only looking for another excuse to 'own feminists'.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:43 pm
by The National Salvation Front for Russia
I like the “Just try not to be an asshole.” response.

Easy, simple and efficient.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:47 pm
by Vassenor
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:God damn, OP. Try not to seem so excitable.


But now all the poor oppressed white men don't have to fear having their lives ruined when their sexual activities come back to bite them.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:49 pm
by Western Vale Confederacy
Vassenor wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:God damn, OP. Try not to seem so excitable.


But now all the poor oppressed white men don't have to fear having their lives ruined when their sexual activities come back to bite them.


Self-hating, much?

'Cause last time I checked, you are white and formerly a male.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:49 pm
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I like the “Just try not to be an asshole.” response.

Easy, simple and efficient.


This.

It's a good motto for life, 'try not to be an asshole'.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:51 pm
by Valrifell
Vassenor wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:God damn, OP. Try not to seem so excitable.


But now all the poor oppressed white men don't have to fear having their lives ruined when their sexual activities come back to bite them.


Gamers and white straight cis men, the two most oppressed groups known to mankind :(

Forewarning: Dumb joke, I'm totally aware of the problems unique to the above group. No, not the gamers.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:53 pm
by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But now all the poor oppressed white men don't have to fear having their lives ruined when their sexual activities come back to bite them.


Self-hating, much?

'Cause last time I checked, you are white and formerly a male.

When other people criticise white men, it is racism or sexism. When white men criticise other white men, it is self-hatred. Are we so beyond reproach that all criticism is moot?

There are some valid points to be made about the position of white men in the western world. Just like saying that there is a higher crime rate among black youths (mdue to socio-economic conditions), it is also fair to say that there are certain cultural characteristics shared among white men due to socio-economics. It's pretty jarring for women and minorities to see white men claimed that they are oppressed because of their race or gender while the opposite is often the case.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:53 pm
by The National Salvation Front for Russia
While I admire Pence's restraint, actively segregating women on hyperbolic fears of #MeToo is a bit much.

Somehow I doubt that most women are crazed man-hating hags willing to make up rape stories just to get ahead.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:54 pm
by Vassenor
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But now all the poor oppressed white men don't have to fear having their lives ruined when their sexual activities come back to bite them.


Self-hating, much?

'Cause last time I checked, you are white and formerly a male.


#nou

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:55 pm
by Valrifell
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:While I admire Pence's restraint, actively segregating women on hyperbolic fears of #MeToo is a bit much.

Somehow I doubt that most women are crazed man-hating hags willing to make up rape stories just to get ahead.


They don't even really get ahead in most cases. They just get someone else fired and stuff.

So I guess segregating women comes with the assumption that the man doing this just thinks all women are malicious?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:56 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:While I admire Pence's restraint, actively segregating women on hyperbolic fears of #MeToo is a bit much.

Somehow I doubt that most women are crazed man-hating hags willing to make up rape stories just to get ahead.


It's just extremes. Sadly, that's our daily bread of late.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:57 pm
by New haven america
We get it Costa, women are evil harpies who exist solely to ruin men's lives and we should just exterminate them all so men can live peacefully.

For the 8,000th time, we get it.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:58 pm
by Alanis Star
Valrifell wrote:
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:While I admire Pence's restraint, actively segregating women on hyperbolic fears of #MeToo is a bit much.

Somehow I doubt that most women are crazed man-hating hags willing to make up rape stories just to get ahead.


They don't even really get ahead in most cases. They just get someone else fired and stuff.

So I guess segregating women comes with the assumption that the man doing this just thinks all women are malicious?


Perhaps the perceived notion that all men are evil, and all women are looking for trouble?

Of course, I definitely don't think that way, but it seems like businesses dealt with this in the most black-and-white fashion, without any grey area or a case to case basis. Reality being that most men do not sexually harass, and not all women are seeking to cause trouble or make false accusations.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:58 pm
by Vassenor
Oh, is this just more about how Pence won't go anywhere without mummy in case one of the mean women claims he raped her?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:00 pm
by Liriena
Bunch of bourgeois men learning the wrong lesson from #MeToo. How shocking.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm
by The Barefoot Anime Girls
hey, we have to respect them. its what the cool kids are doing these days, so let them be cool

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm
by Galloism
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:but the poor men who apparently have something to fear.

Please don't try to frame your objections within the context of gender shaming men for not showing sufficient stereotypically masculine qualities of "stoicism", "bravery", and "fearlessness". It's unnecessary and sexist.

Men should be free of gender roles too.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm
by New haven america
Vassenor wrote:Oh, is this just more about how Pence won't go anywhere without mummy in case one of the mean women claims he raped her?

No, Pence does it because he doesn't trust himself to not be seduced by other women (When 1 man and 1 women are alone together then Satan becomes the 3rd party).

This isn't as uncommon as you might think. A groundkeeper at the church/pre-school near my house acts like this. He refused to meet my mom in person when she wanted to set up a garden plot (They have community gardens there) because he was scared she was gonna seduce him.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm
by Liriena
New haven america wrote:We get it Costa, women are evil harpies who exist solely to ruin men's lives and we should just exterminate them all so men can live peacefully.

For the 8,000th time, we get it.

MGTOWs never seem to actually go their own way. Instead they always linger and whine about how much the entire female gender sucks.