#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

[Ostroeuropa]

That makes no fucking sense. It is completely unrelated to anything here. Stop wasting my time and try to be reasonable.

You are aware people tried getting a false report on Mueller in order to end his investigation, right?

This was a fairly well documented event that happened not too long ago, and is proof that using false reports to take down high ranking officials is, yet again, really fucking difficult.

Now, how about actually making an argument? Or is ranting about how everyone else's arguments don't make sense without providing any points of reference or examples why the only thing you can do?

This is ignoring that a false report to the police is only one kind of false report, and while imprisonment or judicial penalties for false reports do happen, they are not the primary kind of false report that damages someone. Campus tribunals were brought up to increase instances of rapists being punished, and this was done over the protests of people who pointed out it removed protections for the accused, this was shouted down and dismissed as a problem and still is by most feminist institutions.

[Vassenor]

Plus for someone else who was meant to have had their life ruined by a false rape accusation Brett Kavanaugh is doing pretty well for himself. It's not like he has to deal with such a volume of death threats and the like that he's had to go into witness protection or anything.

[Ostroeuropa]

Plus for someone else who was meant to have had their life ruined by a false rape accusation Brett Kavanaugh is doing pretty well for himself. It's not like he has to deal with such a volume of death threats and the like that he's had to go into witness protection or anything.

You're ignoring that this is after years of feminists pulling this shit. Pointing to your own waning credibility and power as a result of people realizing what your movement has done and accepting the arguments of its critics doesn't mean those arguments are wrong about what your movement did. It merely means that things are changing and people are less inclined to tolerate your movements nonsense anymore.

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

You may as well point to how Trump has strengthened due process and be like "See, you're wrong, due process is fine." while ignoring that feminist orgs are out in force to weaken due process again.

It's fine now, because of the resistance to your hate movement. Kavanaugh survived in spite of feminists attempts to bring him down, that doesn't mean they didn't try and bring him down. This is like if you said "clearly Klan action isn't a problem" after people started defending blacks from them.

[New haven america]

Plus for someone else who was meant to have had their life ruined by a false rape accusation Brett Kavanaugh is doing pretty well for himself. It's not like he has to deal with such a volume of death threats and the like that he's had to go into witness protection or anything.

You're ignoring that this is after years of feminists pulling this shit. Pointing to your own waning credibility and power as a result of people realizing what your movement has done and accepting the arguments of its critics doesn't mean those arguments are wrong about what your movement did. It merely means that things are changing and people are less inclined to tolerate your movements nonsense anymore.

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

I like how you try lumping me into a specific group even after I've made numerous arguments in this very thread alone about how problematic false accusations are.

This is where the Us vs. Them mentality you've been constantly relying on really fails you.

[Costa Fierro]

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

Why would people who support a movement that is essentially pushing for the retention of female superiority acknowledge that false accusations are a problem? If you were in that position, you'd simply dismiss it yourself too. Not only that, we don't want feminists realising their mistakes too early. Because then they'll just end up demanding men rectify them. "You're a man, grow a pair and do this for me!"

Women made their beds, they should lie in them. It's that simple.

[Ostroeuropa]

You're ignoring that this is after years of feminists pulling this shit. Pointing to your own waning credibility and power as a result of people realizing what your movement has done and accepting the arguments of its critics doesn't mean those arguments are wrong about what your movement did. It merely means that things are changing and people are less inclined to tolerate your movements nonsense anymore.

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

I like how you try lumping me into a specific group even after I've made numerous arguments in this very thread alone about how problematic false accusations are.

This is where the Us vs. Them mentality you've been constantly running on really fails you.

No, to be fair to you you have done so. But do you also accept who the main threats to due process are, what movement they're in, and so on?

[Ostroeuropa]

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

Why would people who support a movement that is essentially pushing for the retention of female superiority acknowledge that false accusations are a problem? If you were in that position, you'd simply dismiss it yourself too. Not only that, we don't want feminists realising their mistakes too early. Because then they'll just end up demanding men rectify them. "You're a man, grow a pair and do this for me!"

Women made their beds, they should lie in them. It's that simple.

How long do you think before they make up some bullshit about how false accusations and erosions of due process are due to patriarchy?

[Costa Fierro]

How long do you think before they make up some bullshit about how false accusations and erosions of due process are due to patriarchy?

Not much further to go.

[Ostroeuropa]

How long do you think before they make up some bullshit about how false accusations and erosions of due process are due to patriarchy?

Not much further to go.

Oh yeah, I forgot that sociopath Lena Dunham had already supplied a self-serving rationalization for them to uncritically swallow and regurgitate. So we're there already and its a matter of how far that meme spreads and how fast. First the sociopaths will repeat it, then the people who hate men and are willfully disingenous, then the rest of them who don't bother being critical of this ideology will be like "If all these feminists are saying it it must be true!"

rinse repeat, always and forever.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Being incapable of being in the same room with a women without your wife acting as a chaperone is a negative (And stupid) trait.

The article said he wont dine alone with any woman who isnt his wife. All it takes is being alone with a woman to put yourself at risk, more so since he is the VP of a despised white house with people just waiting to take it down.

You are spinning it onto something else because you hate Pence and refuse to admit this is a wise move.

And also, if that's what works for him and his family, that's what works for him and his family and who are we to criticise?

[Ostroeuropa]

On the pence thing, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on individual agency.

It took me a long time to quit drugs because of this kind of attitude. Eventually I decided I couldn't just quit drugs, i had to quit being in situations where i could take them. Recognizing your own limitations and temptations is how to control them.

Pence has decided not only to not cheat, but to remove situations where he's tempted to do so. That is him being responsible. Ideally he'd also refrain from dinners with men and so on in order to ensure equal coverage.

[Mystic Warriors]

That makes no fucking sense. It is completely unrelated to anything here. Stop wasting my time and try to be reasonable.

You are aware people tried getting a false report on Mueller in order to end his investigation, right?

This was a fairly well documented event that happened not too long ago, and is proof that using false reports to take down high ranking officials is, yet again, really fucking difficult.

Now, how about actually making an argument? Or is ranting about how everyone else's arguments don't make sense without providing any points of reference or examples why the only thing you can do?

1&2 - Again, this has nothing to do with this at all. So stop bringing up pointless bullshit to make some point you wont state.

3 - Cute, personal attacks on top of bringing up pointless statements. You want references and examples for thinking Pences decision to not have dinner with women who aren't his wife was wise....... Sad you need that explained to you.

[Mystic Warriors]

Plus for someone else who was meant to have had their life ruined by a false rape accusation Brett Kavanaugh is doing pretty well for himself. It's not like he has to deal with such a volume of death threats and the like that he's had to go into witness protection or anything.

Pence is in a office where he needs to be voted in, Kavanaugh isnt. Accusations real or not can damage your chances at getting elected.

[Vassenor]

Plus for someone else who was meant to have had their life ruined by a false rape accusation Brett Kavanaugh is doing pretty well for himself. It's not like he has to deal with such a volume of death threats and the like that he's had to go into witness protection or anything.

You're ignoring that this is after years of feminists pulling this shit. Pointing to your own waning credibility and power as a result of people realizing what your movement has done and accepting the arguments of its critics doesn't mean those arguments are wrong about what your movement did. It merely means that things are changing and people are less inclined to tolerate your movements nonsense anymore.

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

You may as well point to how Trump has strengthened due process and be like "See, you're wrong, due process is fine." while ignoring that feminist orgs are out in force to weaken due process again.

It's fine now, because of the resistance to your hate movement. Kavanaugh survived in spite of feminists attempts to bring him down, that doesn't mean they didn't try and bring him down. This is like if you said "clearly Klan action isn't a problem" after people started defending blacks from them.

And there we go with the magical conspiracy that somehow hasn't managed to leak despite how big it would need to be to do all the things you claim it does.

[Costa Fierro]

And there we go with the magical conspiracy that somehow hasn't managed to leak despite how big it would need to be to do all the things you claim it does.

It's not a conspiracy, it's common knowledge. Society chooses to ignore it because it values women more than men.

[Galloism]

You are aware people tried getting a false report on Mueller in order to end his investigation, right?

This was a fairly well documented event that happened not too long ago, and is proof that using false reports to take down high ranking officials is, yet again, really fucking difficult.

Now, how about actually making an argument? Or is ranting about how everyone else's arguments don't make sense without providing any points of reference or examples why the only thing you can do?

This is ignoring that a false report to the police is only one kind of false report, and while imprisonment or judicial penalties for false reports do happen, they are not the primary kind of false report that damages someone. Campus tribunals were brought up to increase instances of rapists being punished, and this was done over the protests of people who pointed out it removed protections for the accused, this was shouted down and dismissed as a problem and still is by most feminist institutions.

It’s also worth note that those campus tribunals are so broken that several victims of sexual assault have been expelled as well, when their assaulter accused them of sexual misconduct.

[Ostroeuropa]

You're ignoring that this is after years of feminists pulling this shit. Pointing to your own waning credibility and power as a result of people realizing what your movement has done and accepting the arguments of its critics doesn't mean those arguments are wrong about what your movement did. It merely means that things are changing and people are less inclined to tolerate your movements nonsense anymore.

What's ridiculous about that is as soon as that happened you guys are STILL downplaying false accusations and trying to dismiss them as a problem.

You may as well point to how Trump has strengthened due process and be like "See, you're wrong, due process is fine." while ignoring that feminist orgs are out in force to weaken due process again.

It's fine now, because of the resistance to your hate movement. Kavanaugh survived in spite of feminists attempts to bring him down, that doesn't mean they didn't try and bring him down. This is like if you said "clearly Klan action isn't a problem" after people started defending blacks from them.

And there we go with the magical conspiracy that somehow hasn't managed to leak despite how big it would need to be to do all the things you claim it does.

This isn't a conspiracy Vass. It's like us telling you trickle down economics will hurt the poor and all data proves it and you ignore it and do it anyway, fuck things up massively, then we get into power and fix it and you say "See, the economy works now!".

There is no conspiracy here. Many feminists are entirely open about opposing due process, and feminist organizations are opposing Trumps attempts to fix it. Where in what I talked about is any conspiracy necessary? Once again you're deliberately being disingenuous and dishonest rather than engage with what people are saying. I've rebutted this nonsense of yours multiple times and you've never once responded to it. It's just a cycle of dishonest memes and tropes you use to ignore the fact that your movement is hurting people and ruining lives and gaslight your critics.

You do realize what you're doing is psychologically abusive, right?

This is ignoring that a false report to the police is only one kind of false report, and while imprisonment or judicial penalties for false reports do happen, they are not the primary kind of false report that damages someone. Campus tribunals were brought up to increase instances of rapists being punished, and this was done over the protests of people who pointed out it removed protections for the accused, this was shouted down and dismissed as a problem and still is by most feminist institutions.

It’s also worth note that those campus tribunals are so broken that several victims of sexual assault have been expelled as well, when their assaulter accused them of sexual misconduct.

Exactly. The feminst movement imposed a system that did nothing but fuck over men exposed to it, including rape victims, while being vitriolically abusive to people who questioned it and terrorizing everyone into compliance with their large amounts of influence, and now we're in the stage of them gaslighting over it. The feminist moevments in its beliefs, its proposals, and its tactics, it's abhorrent all the way through and rotten to the core.

[Galloism]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Vasssssssssssssssenor,

Earth to Vassenor.

Are you afraid Vassenor? Uncomfortable truths make you fear answering or engaging?

If you wish to concede the points that’s fine, but let’s have the courage to admit it.

So how does accepting the possibility that someone might have done a thing equal guilty until proven innocent?

If you believe in God, does that mean you accept the possibility of God or that you have full faith that God exists, and accept His existence as real?

If you believe Donald Trump, does that mean you accept the possibility that Donald Trump is telling the truth, or that you have full faith that he is telling the truth, and accept his word as truth?

If you believe in climate change, does that mean you accept the possibility of climate change, or that you have full faith that climate change is a real thing and accept it as a real event?

If you believe your spouse when he/she says he/she was working late, do you accept the possibility they were working late, or that you positively affirmatively accept they were working late and accept it as a real event?

Yes. It's absolutely wrong that anyone ever thought that this is the way law ought to work.

You can think the anti-rape portion of the feminist movement for pushing hard to reverse the burden of proof. (or, more accurately, the anti-rape of women portion. no one cares about men who are raped.)

What was that Vassenor? No one says they want guilty until proven innocent? How did it get in the law they pushed then, and as far back as 1975 at that?

You mean like the belief that feminists want rape accused to be treated as guilty until proven innocent?

Better start believing, Vassenor.

[Gerspanginer]

Who is the feminist here? I would like to destroy you with facts,please.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Vasssssssssssssssenor,

Earth to Vassenor.

Are you afraid Vassenor? Uncomfortable truths make you fear answering or engaging?

If you wish to concede the points that’s fine, but let’s have the courage to admit it.

If you believe in God, does that mean you accept the possibility of God or that you have full faith that God exists, and accept His existence as real?

If you believe Donald Trump, does that mean you accept the possibility that Donald Trump is telling the truth, or that you have full faith that he is telling the truth, and accept his word as truth?

If you believe in climate change, does that mean you accept the possibility of climate change, or that you have full faith that climate change is a real thing and accept it as a real event?

If you believe your spouse when he/she says he/she was working late, do you accept the possibility they were working late, or that you positively affirmatively accept they were working late and accept it as a real event?

You can think the anti-rape portion of the feminist movement for pushing hard to reverse the burden of proof. (or, more accurately, the anti-rape of women portion. no one cares about men who are raped.)

What was that Vassenor? No one says they want guilty until proven innocent? How did it get in the law they pushed then, and as far back as 1975 at that?



Better start believing, Vassenor.

While we're at it:

Vassenor:

But now all the poor oppressed white men don't have to fear having their lives ruined when their sexual activities come back to bite them.

Respond to this criticism maybe?

Vassenor pulls this shit even when discussing mens issues. They immediately frame it as "White men" and dismiss it by mocking the notion of white men being oppressed, even when the discussion is for instance about the justice gap in sentencing, something that impacts men and minority men most of all. They've done it in reaction to every and any mens issue being raised. You are giving people like Vassenor the license to behave that way.

Not only is it unfair in and of itself for you to defend that attitude with regards to white men, but you are ignoring how it is abused. Ask yourself. Why did Vassenor make this about white men?

there's nothing abotu this issue that makes it about white men. In fact we've consistently pointed out feminist action here harms minorities most of all.

It's because Vassenor is not sincere, and is behaving dishonestly, they are using this thought-terminating cliche you guys have normalized that white men are never oppressed and you don't need to think any further on the topic to shut down discussion of mens issues in general, even ones that mostly effect minority men.

(Gaslighting their critics)

So any criticism of feminism must, in their mind, be on behalf of white men. They cannot admit reality to themselves, and so persistently mischaracterize the criticism, and attempt to use progressive prejudice against white males to shut down their own ability to think on the topic and actually understand and engage with the criticism being offered. This dynamic here? It's what your ideas when put into practice generate. Hatred of white men means hatred of men AND whites. You can't seperate the two, as Vassenor routinely demonstrates with their kneejerk hostility to mens issues and persistent insistence on framing it as "White men", even when the people criticizing feminist discourse on the topic point out at length, it's mostly minority men you are hurting.

[Galloism]

Plus for someone else who was meant to have had their life ruined by a false rape accusation Brett Kavanaugh is doing pretty well for himself. It's not like he has to deal with such a volume of death threats and the like that he's had to go into witness protection or anything.

He did have such a volume the secret service had a 24 hour secret service protection detail on him and his family though. Not sure if they still do.

[Vassenor]

Who is the feminist here? I would like to destroy you with facts,please.

Well, there's a first time for everything.

[Galloism]

Who is the feminist here? I would like to destroy you with facts,please.

Well, there's a first time for everything.

Vassenor, refusing to engage with the facts does not negate the destruction of said facts.

[Discourse Ouro-Bros]

Vassenor knows that the gender identity acceptance of Feminism and Social Justice for someone born in a male body is conditional and can be revoked at any time for dissent.

This would throw her back into the condition of being seen as a "scary," "oppressive" man, whose sexuality is perceived as inherently suspect, and whose very presence apparently saps women of their agency.

[Vassenor]

Vassenor knows that the gender identity acceptance of Feminism and Social Justice for someone born in a male body is conditional and can be revoked at any time for dissent.

This would throw her back into the condition of being seen as a "scary," "oppressive" man, whose sexuality is perceived as inherently suspect, and whose very presence apparently saps women of their agency.

So you're trying to fearmonger me into agreeing with you with abject bullshit. I thought the MRAs were meant to be the factual and rational ones.