#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

[Vassenor]

A more correct example of abuse was the Aziz Ansari case, along with the accusations against Al Franken, both of which failed to stand up to serious scrutiny, yet both men were virtually lynched in social media and Franken lost his Senate seat as a result, stabbed in the back by members of his own caucus.

Franken was literally caught on camera groping a sleeping woman.

And resigned voluntarily.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Franken was literally caught on camera groping a sleeping woman.

And resigned voluntarily.

Yeah, lots of these guys resign voluntarily, funny that. It's almost like they don't like being harassed everywhere they go.

[New Mivango]

And resigned voluntarily.

Yeah, lots of these guys resign voluntarily, funny that. It's almost like they don't like being harassed everywhere they go.

"Voluntarily." Yeah, sure.

[Liriena]

"Believe women" was not an attack on "Western" values. If anything, it was an attack on something that was and still is fundamentally broken about "Western" values, which is a widespread institutional reluctance to fully investigate sexual violence.

Also, nothing inherently sickening about memes based on righteous schadenfreude, specially if it comes into being as a response by a marginalized group to the insecurities of a more powerful group.

So, you can be callous against men and they should just suck it up, because they're men, and that's not sexist or extremist or sickening? Gotcha. All are equal, but some are more equal than others. Yeah, you're the poster child for everything that is wrong in modern feminism, that much is clear.

Nah, more like there's a large grey area between non-bigotry and what's unequivocally bigoted and unjust when it comes to irony, memery and power relations between groups.

[New Mivango]

So, you can be callous against men and they should just suck it up, because they're men, and that's not sexist or extremist or sickening? Gotcha. All are equal, but some are more equal than others. Yeah, you're the poster child for everything that is wrong in modern feminism, that much is clear.

Nah, more like there's a large grey area between non-bigotry and what's unequivocally bigoted and unjust when it comes to irony, memery and power relations between groups.

How convenient for you. Yeah, if we meet, I don't want to know you or talk to you or be seen with you. I will avoid you like the plague, the same way that I avoid any other kind of evil or insane person who might in some way seek to harm me.

[Ors Might]

#MeToo's original purpose wasn't extremist. I never said that. But "believe women" runs antithetical to every precept of modern, Western, constitutional law, to due process, both substantive and procedural. And the way that "male tears" was popularized and condoned by even the moderates is truly sickening.

It should never be socially acceptable to be that callous as to think that "drowning" in anyone's tears, male or female, black or white, gay or straight or bi, is somehow cool.

"Believe women" was not an attack on "Western" values. If anything, it was an attack on something that was and still is fundamentally broken about "Western" values, which is a widespread institutional reluctance to fully investigate sexual violence.

Also, nothing inherently sickening about memes based on righteous schadenfreude, specially if it comes into being as a response by a marginalized group to the insecurities of a more powerful group.

“righteous”

Is that what we’re calling reinforcement of “toxic masculinity” now?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Can someone tell me where the due process was in the Junot Diaz case? Struggling to find it.

[Liriena]

And resigned voluntarily.

Yeah, lots of these guys resign voluntarily, funny that. It's almost like they don't like being harassed everywhere they go.

Or maybe they sincerely accept responsibility for their actions.

Kevin Spacey went away in shame, but George Takei didn't and still has an active public life with a large following. Why? Because one of them was almost indubitably guilty and knew it, and the other wasn't and rightfully fought back.

[New Mivango]

"Believe women" was not an attack on "Western" values. If anything, it was an attack on something that was and still is fundamentally broken about "Western" values, which is a widespread institutional reluctance to fully investigate sexual violence.

Also, nothing inherently sickening about memes based on righteous schadenfreude, specially if it comes into being as a response by a marginalized group to the insecurities of a more powerful group.

“righteous”

Is that what we’re calling reinforcement of “toxic masculinity” now?

Someone needs to translate the word "schadenfreude" from German to English for her benefit. It means "wrongful joy." By definition, it can't be "righteous." That's like saying an "honest crook." It's an oxymoron.

[Liriena]

"Believe women" was not an attack on "Western" values. If anything, it was an attack on something that was and still is fundamentally broken about "Western" values, which is a widespread institutional reluctance to fully investigate sexual violence.

Also, nothing inherently sickening about memes based on righteous schadenfreude, specially if it comes into being as a response by a marginalized group to the insecurities of a more powerful group.

“righteous”

Is that what we’re calling reinforcement of “toxic masculinity” now?

wat

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Yeah, lots of these guys resign voluntarily, funny that. It's almost like they don't like being harassed everywhere they go.

Or maybe they sincerely accept responsibility for their actions.

Kevin Spacey went away in shame, but George Takei didn't and still has an active public life with a large following. Why? Because one of them was almost indubitably guilty and knew it, and the other wasn't and rightfully fought back.

Don't quite buy that honestly. I'd fight it even if I knew I was guilty, and not just of crimes of this sort.

[Ors Might]

“righteous”

Is that what we’re calling reinforcement of “toxic masculinity” now?

wat

Feminists had a nasty habit of using the Male Tears meme whenever men expressed some sort of offense or problem with the movement, both justifiably and unjustifiably. Almost as if feminists don’t give two shits about breaking down male gender roles except when it suits them.

[New Mivango]

wat

Feminists had a nasty habit of using the Male Tears meme whenever men expressed some sort of offense or problem with the movement, both justifiably and unjustifiably. Almost as if feminists don’t give two shits about breaking down male gender roles except when it suits them.

Precisely. It's called hypocrisy and they're masters of it.

[Liriena]

Nah, more like there's a large grey area between non-bigotry and what's unequivocally bigoted and unjust when it comes to irony, memery and power relations between groups.

How convenient for you. Yeah, if we meet, I don't want to know you or talk to you or be seen with you. I will avoid you like the plague, the same way that I avoid any other kind of evil or insane person who might in some way seek to harm me.

Calm down.

I don't personally like the "male tears" meme, because I do find it a bit too easy to turn into something toxic and downright cruel. Much in the same way I'm not a huge fan of how some media tries to be "feminist" by mirroring the whole "women be nagging" shtick with a "men are trash" shtick.

[Liriena]

wat

Feminists had a nasty habit of using the Male Tears meme whenever men expressed some sort of offense or problem with the movement, both justifiably and unjustifiably. Almost as if feminists don’t give two shits about breaking down male gender roles except when it suits them.

Sounds like an oversimplification. Got anything more specific than a vague reference to "feminists"?

[South Ccanda]

Well, #MeToo has been used in an extremist way, taking the Kavanaugh case into consideration. Its being abused.

...how the hell was the Kavanaugh shit "extremist"? How was it "abused"?

The guy got accused, Senate and the FBI investigated, then the majority of the Senate arrived at the conclusion that he was innocent and confirmed him.

Because they used the #MeToo movement to accuse an innocent man of rape just because they don't agree with him. now, although, its all alleged, there is no more basis behind my claims than their claims.

[His Excellence]

We get it: your gender politics are fueled by fragility and resentment.

Also, nothing inherently sickening about memes based on righteous schadenfreude, specially if it comes into being as a response by a marginalized group to the insecurities of a more powerful group.

Nah, more like there's a large grey area between non-bigotry and what's unequivocally bigoted and unjust when it comes to irony, memery and power relations between groups.

I haven't been a fan of everything (or even most things) New Mivango has said on the matter, but these comments aren't much better.

This "group vs group" talk is a bigot dogwhistle, no matter who it's coming from or aimed at. Men aren't allowed to have fears or insecurities because some men are scumbags? Are you completely incapable of viewing people as individuals? Yet you dare to make accusations about "gender politics fueled by resentment"? You're just being a hypocrite at this point.

[New Mivango]

How convenient for you. Yeah, if we meet, I don't want to know you or talk to you or be seen with you. I will avoid you like the plague, the same way that I avoid any other kind of evil or insane person who might in some way seek to harm me.

Calm down.

I don't personally like the "male tears" meme, because I do find it a bit too easy to turn into something toxic and downright cruel. Much in the same way I'm not a huge fan of how some media tries to be "feminist" by mirroring the whole "women be nagging" shtick with a "men are trash" shtick.

That's not how it came across to me. It sounded like a defense of it.

[Ors Might]

How convenient for you. Yeah, if we meet, I don't want to know you or talk to you or be seen with you. I will avoid you like the plague, the same way that I avoid any other kind of evil or insane person who might in some way seek to harm me.

Calm down.

I don't personally like the "male tears" meme, because I do find it a bit too easy to turn into something toxic and downright cruel. Much in the same way I'm not a huge fan of how some media tries to be "feminist" by mirroring the whole "women be nagging" shtick with a "men are trash" shtick.

Fair enough.

I apologize for being hostile. This sort of stuff tends to push my buttons in the worst way and brings out a lot of resentment. I’d like for feminism to actually address gender roles and how they impact men and women but it seems like the majority only want to do the former when male gender roles impact women.

[Liriena]

Or maybe they sincerely accept responsibility for their actions.

Kevin Spacey went away in shame, but George Takei didn't and still has an active public life with a large following. Why? Because one of them was almost indubitably guilty and knew it, and the other wasn't and rightfully fought back.

Don't quite buy that honestly. I'd fight it even if I knew I was guilty, and not just of crimes of this sort.

To be fair, many of the indubitably guilty scumbags did try to fight it. Weinsten abused his power however he could to escape responsibility.

[Vassenor]

...how the hell was the Kavanaugh shit "extremist"? How was it "abused"?

The guy got accused, Senate and the FBI investigated, then the majority of the Senate arrived at the conclusion that he was innocent and confirmed him.

Because they used the #MeToo movement to accuse an innocent man of rape just because they don't agree with him. now, although, its all alleged, there is no more basis behind my claims than their claims.

So do you have evidence that the claim was knowingly false and maliciously made? Or do only the men get to be innocent until proven guilty?

[Ors Might]

Feminists had a nasty habit of using the Male Tears meme whenever men expressed some sort of offense or problem with the movement, both justifiably and unjustifiably. Almost as if feminists don’t give two shits about breaking down male gender roles except when it suits them.

Sounds like an oversimplification. Got anything more specific than a vague reference to "feminists"?

Besides personal anecdotes? No, not really.

[South Ccanda]

I can assure you that from what i've seen from the Kavanaugh protests, that isn't what that means, sorry to say.

You mean that thing where everyone had to fight tooth and nail to even get to "don't dismiss accusations out of hand and actually investigate them"?

i'm seriously tired rn. Sarcasm?

[Mzeusia]

Because they used the #MeToo movement to accuse an innocent man of rape just because they don't agree with him. now, although, its all alleged, there is no more basis behind my claims than their claims.

So do you have evidence that the claim was knowingly false and maliciously made? Or do only the men get to be innocent until proven guilty?

He has stated that their is no more basis behind his claims than theirs.

[Ors Might]

Because they used the #MeToo movement to accuse an innocent man of rape just because they don't agree with him. now, although, its all alleged, there is no more basis behind my claims than their claims.

So do you have evidence that the claim was knowingly false and maliciously made? Or do only the men get to be innocent until proven guilty?

I believe that it’s been pointed out to you repeatedly that one can be innocent of a crime without their accuser knowingly and maliciously falsely making their accusation.