#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

[Liriena]

And here's the thing: you can't logic people out of a belief they didn't logic themselves into. You can't start quoting statistics at people who see examples on TV all the time of exactly what they fear. It just won't work.

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

And here's the thing: you can't logic people out of a belief they didn't logic themselves into. You can't start quoting statistics at people who see examples on TV all the time of exactly what they fear. It just won't work.

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

Maybe not get crucified for misplaced comments?

[Liriena]

Did the lot of you collectively decide that a sizeable portion of all women are deceitful vipers out to ruin you?

Here's an interesting question. What is sizeable? What percentage has to exist for there be a risk?

Let's say it's 0.1%. One woman out of a thousand.

I deal with 800-1000 women in an average year, and 600-800 men. My profession is somewhat lopsided female. Our industry also has high turnover, so you can say 300-400 women a year will be unique every year. My risk the first year is between 80-100% (but never truly a hundred, because statistics don't work that way), with each subsequent year of encountering such a new risk of 30-40%. Is that a sizeable risk?

What if it's 0.01%? One out of ten thousand.

Well, that's 8-10% the first year, with 3-4% every subsequent year after. Statistics don't easily sum, but in a forty year career, that's a substantially high risk.

What if it's 0.001%? One out of a hundred thousand. Now we're saying there's only 3000 in all of the United States of America.

Now you're talking about 0.8-1.0% for the first year, and 0.3-0.4% each subsequent year. If my risk of a car accident going to the grocery store today was 1%, I wouldn't go.

...is it just me, or does this read a little gambler's fallacy-ish?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

So it didn’t happen, you’re just making a point...?

The female winner, Ada Hegerberg, was asked if she'd like to twerk.

Many women seem to enjoy twerking. I fail to see the issue.

I'm sure many men do as well, but the male winners weren't asked were they..

Ahhh.

[Liriena]

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

Maybe not get crucified for misplaced comments?

How about actually have an open dialogue with others? You know, actually asking women, see where the line is, since not knowing that seems to be the big cause for concern?

[Kubrath]

Sure, but first provide actual evidence that any of this is a massive problem that we should be worried about. Once you provide that, I'll happily provide you with the evidence you requested.

Um, my own post said that I don't agree with what they are doing. So why do I have to make up evidence for something I disagree with?

What does this have to do with anything? If you think the MeToo movement is out of control, which is what this whole thread is about, then provide evidence. That's what I asked for.

[Parhe]

And here's the thing: you can't logic people out of a belief they didn't logic themselves into. You can't start quoting statistics at people who see examples on TV all the time of exactly what they fear. It just won't work.

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

I don't see this is misogynistic towards all women. I'll use an example. I know several people in RL, most of them female, who will cross the street at night to avoid a young black men, or group of, further down the street. Now, racism aside, and I do consider it a bit racist, none of them, as far as I am aware, think all or most young black men are dangeros, but why risk coming across that 0.1%?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Maybe not get crucified for misplaced comments?

How about actually have an open dialogue with others? You know, actually asking women, see where the line is, since not knowing that seems to be the big cause for concern?

I don't quite get what you mean.

[Parhe]

Um, my own post said that I don't agree with what they are doing. So why do I have to make up evidence for something I disagree with?

What does this have to do with anything? If you think the MeToo movement is out of control, which is what this whole thread is about, then provide evidence. That's what I asked for.

I never fucking said #MeToo is out of control. I said the way you are attacking these men you don't know is rude.

[Kubrath]

Maybe not get crucified for misplaced comments?

How about actually have an open dialogue with others? You know, actually asking women, see where the line is, since not knowing that seems to be the big cause for concern?

They'd rather jump through hoops of fire than ask women for their opinion on this.

[New Mivango]

No, you don't, but the likelihood of that happening is very small. Ya'll are acting as if there's a cabal of women trying to bring about a feminist dystopia.[/quote]

There isn't?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

How about actually have an open dialogue with others? You know, actually asking women, see where the line is, since not knowing that seems to be the big cause for concern?

They'd rather jump through hoops of fire than ask women for their opinion on this.

Or maybe, just f*cking maybe, I struggle at dialogue because I actually am impeded by a condition on that department?

[Kaggeceria]

And here's the thing: you can't logic people out of a belief they didn't logic themselves into. You can't start quoting statistics at people who see examples on TV all the time of exactly what they fear. It just won't work.

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

Stop using sexual assault accusations as weapons against men.

An accusation, even if it has no evidence, is enough to destroy a man's career and reputation. Wanting to avoid having that happen is fairly sensible. Its not misogynistic.

[New Mivango]

Pet theories aside, there is no real basis to believe that dropping the Christian moral ethic is in any way calamitous. In fact, one could argue that Christianity and its slave morality helped wreck the Roman Empire.

Why are you bandying around stupid Nietzschean terms like they're based on actual theological or historical research?

I note that no one asks this absurd question of the more appropriate target for it: advocates for Christian slave morality, which has no basis in science whatsoever.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Maybe not get crucified for misplaced comments?

How about actually have an open dialogue with others? You know, actually asking women, see where the line is, since not knowing that seems to be the big cause for concern?

Imagine actually being able to talk to women.

[Kubrath]

What does this have to do with anything? If you think the MeToo movement is out of control, which is what this whole thread is about, then provide evidence. That's what I asked for.

I never fucking said #MeToo is out of control. I said the way you are attacking these men you don't know is rude.

Oh, well, consider me rude, then. I also thought they were rude when millions lost their homes and/or jobs, but hey, who's counting? Also, here's a piece of evidence: https://www.bna.com/wells-fargo-hindering-n73014464291/

[Galloism]

And here's the thing: you can't logic people out of a belief they didn't logic themselves into. You can't start quoting statistics at people who see examples on TV all the time of exactly what they fear. It just won't work.

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

A strong feelgood message that we, as a society, really care about them, instead of the current society, which proudly trumpets things like this:



Keep in mind Liriena, in our country, we have millions of men who are routinely beaten and abused by their wives, and have no recourse. They know that at her word, they can be arrested, imprisoned, and the system will continue her abuse merely on her word alone. These men know that women have more social power than they do, and can wield against them, and for millions, their wives, girlfriends, or partners already do so on a regular basis.

This is the reality of millions of men in America.

Do you think, when being regularly abused by a woman, they're inclined to trust that other women won't use their greater social power to abuse them as well?

Men know that, based on their gender, their word is worth less than a woman's. Socially, they're guilty until proven innocent. Automatically. You think you can make them feel good about things when they know they're in that kind of a bind, and whether the accusation is true or false, they're just as screwed?


I mean, imagine for a moment you walk into my office to talk to me about a project, and you're my employee. And I have a gun pointed at you the whole time you're in there. Now, true, I've never shot an employee for pissing me off, but I sit there with the gun pointed at you all the time all the same, with that implicit threat of harm hanging over your head. Are you going to come in to talk to me in my office a lot?

[Kubrath]

They'd rather jump through hoops of fire than ask women for their opinion on this.

Or maybe, just f*cking maybe, I struggle at dialogue because I actually am impeded by a condition on that department?

And maybe, just maybe, they would empathize and understand your situation? Did that ever cross your mind?

[Right wing humour squad]

Maybe not get crucified for misplaced comments?

How about actually have an open dialogue with others? You know, actually asking women, see where the line is, since not knowing that seems to be the big cause for concern?

Hahahahaha that’s a good one.
We’ve been trying to have a discussion with women about female on male sexual and domestic violence since the seventies. Women haven’t accepted it’s an issue yet.

Fuck that, remove anti discrimination laws, let people hire who they know they can trust.

[New Mivango]

So what would work to make men less paranoid to the point of borderline misogynistic distrust towards all women?

A strong feelgood message that we, as a society, really care about them, instead of the current society, which proudly trumpets things like this:



Keep in mind Liriena, in our country, we have millions of men who are routinely beaten and abused by their wives, and have no recourse. They know that at her word, they can be arrested, imprisoned, and the system will continue her abuse merely on her word alone. These men know that women have more social power than they do, and can wield against them, and for millions, their wives, girlfriends, or partners already do so on a regular basis.

This is the reality of millions of men in America.

Do you think, when being regularly abused by a woman, they're inclined to trust that other women won't use their greater social power to abuse them as well?

Men know that, based on their gender, their word is worth less than a woman's. Socially, they're guilty until proven innocent. Automatically. You think you can make them feel good about things when they know they're in that kind of a bind, and whether the accusation is true or false, they're just as screwed?


I mean, imagine for a moment you walk into my office to talk to me about a project, and you're my employee. And I have a gun pointed at you the whole time you're in there. Now, true, I've never shot an employee for pissing me off, but I sit there with the gun pointed at you all the time all the same, with that implicit threat of harm hanging over your head. Are you going to come in to talk to me in my office a lot?

This, my friends, is nothing but the ugly, unvarnished truth.

[Galloism]

Here's an interesting question. What is sizeable? What percentage has to exist for there be a risk?

Let's say it's 0.1%. One woman out of a thousand.

I deal with 800-1000 women in an average year, and 600-800 men. My profession is somewhat lopsided female. Our industry also has high turnover, so you can say 300-400 women a year will be unique every year. My risk the first year is between 80-100% (but never truly a hundred, because statistics don't work that way), with each subsequent year of encountering such a new risk of 30-40%. Is that a sizeable risk?

What if it's 0.01%? One out of ten thousand.

Well, that's 8-10% the first year, with 3-4% every subsequent year after. Statistics don't easily sum, but in a forty year career, that's a substantially high risk.

What if it's 0.001%? One out of a hundred thousand. Now we're saying there's only 3000 in all of the United States of America.

Now you're talking about 0.8-1.0% for the first year, and 0.3-0.4% each subsequent year. If my risk of a car accident going to the grocery store today was 1%, I wouldn't go.

...is it just me, or does this read a little gambler's fallacy-ish?

I mean, that's what the men in question are seeing. There's a gamble they don't want to take.

Now, that doesn't mean they can act in a discriminatory fashion - just because society is at large sexist against them and they have lower social power than the women around them doesn't mean those individual women are at fault, but if they take measures to prevent being alone with any employee, that probably makes good sense given the social context. It's both nondiscriminatory, and has a protective effect for them.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Or maybe, just f*cking maybe, I struggle at dialogue because I actually am impeded by a condition on that department?

And maybe, just maybe, they would empathize and understand your situation? Did that ever cross your mind?

Many women are very bad at empathizing with social recluses. Even if you just mind your own business they'll start rumors about you. Yes, this is from experience.

[New Mivango]

Or maybe, just f*cking maybe, I struggle at dialogue because I actually am impeded by a condition on that department?

And maybe, just maybe, they would empathize and understand your situation? Did that ever cross your mind?

In my experience, women rarely have any empathy for socially awkward men.

[Radiatia]

I've become so used to saying "I told you so" over the years that the sense of joy I feel at saying those words has completely faded away.

Oh wait, there it is, never mind.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Or maybe, just f*cking maybe, I struggle at dialogue because I actually am impeded by a condition on that department?

And maybe, just maybe, they would empathize and understand your situation? Did that ever cross your mind?

That's the issue, I can't just begin discussions with "oh, btw, im autistic so my way of speech might seem odd to you", nor can I save myself from being accused by going "oh, btw, im autistic so my way of speech may have caused this and I didn't mean it".

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.