#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

[Liriena]

Ostro wanted me to confront something, and I did. The only problem I see with how I approached it is that it's not the total surrender he desperately seeks.

“Total surrender”. Oh mercy, Ostro has you on the end of a sword and DESPERATELY needs you to accept his answer? Hardly. Maybe try to give legitimate answers, instead of panicking and turning-up the sarcasm from an 11 to a 15, when confronted with questions.

I wasn't being sarcastic here:

[shrug] As I said, if Sarah Jeong had gotten fired over those tweets, even if she had been telling the truth about being satirical, I would have been fine with it. I actually struggle to understand why the NYT even wanted her in the first place, since I don't see anything about her that's really spectacular (although, then again, the NYT has made some weird choices for columnists over the years).

Is there a problem of obnoxious hot takes on gender and race getting almost automatic editorial validation with seemingly no concern for their journalistic rigour? Yeah, pretty much. We live in an era of nitpicking and wokeness, and the market is desperate to supply tons of that shit.

Is there a problem of certain kinds of bigotry getting undeserved media validation because the neoliberal understanding of identity politics tends to have the depth of a puddle and will fight tooth and nail for very stupid ideas because that's what they think the zeitgeist they're trying to assimilate calls for? Yeah, definitely.

But I don't think these problems are nearly as dramatic and apocalyptic as you try to make them sound, and I'm not interested in the snake oil you try to sell with that view.

[Luminesa]

So you admit to shitposting?

Sure. I believe that, sometimes, treating the other person's argument seriously is pointless and even a bit self-harmful, and that it's better to just... shitpost. Not troll, but definitely take a less self-serious approach.

So you’re dismissing the argument because you don’t have a proper response. K.

[Luminesa]

“Total surrender”. Oh mercy, Ostro has you on the end of a sword and DESPERATELY needs you to accept his answer? Hardly. Maybe try to give legitimate answers, instead of panicking and turning-up the sarcasm from an 11 to a 15, when confronted with questions.

I wasn't being sarcastic here:

[shrug] As I said, if Sarah Jeong had gotten fired over those tweets, even if she had been telling the truth about being satirical, I would have been fine with it. I actually struggle to understand why the NYT even wanted her in the first place, since I don't see anything about her that's really spectacular (although, then again, the NYT has made some weird choices for columnists over the years).

Is there a problem of obnoxious hot takes on gender and race getting almost automatic editorial validation with seemingly no concern for their journalistic rigour? Yeah, pretty much. We live in an era of nitpicking and wokeness, and the market is desperate to supply tons of that shit.

Is there a problem of certain kinds of bigotry getting undeserved media validation because the neoliberal understanding of identity politics tends to have the depth of a puddle and will fight tooth and nail for very stupid ideas because that's what they think the zeitgeist they're trying to assimilate calls for? Yeah, definitely.

But I don't think these problems are nearly as dramatic and apocalyptic as you try to make them sound, and I'm not interested in the snake oil you try to sell with that view.

That’s because that’s not the post I was referring to.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

So you hold individual members of the public to a higher standard for a single sentence on their own personal channel than one of the largest journalism organizations in the world for their hiring process to give someone a platform, or say, the people who organize the oscars.

Nah. Fire everybody. Hand Youtube over to Shaun, Hbomb, Contra, PhilosophyTube, Lindsay Ellis and Eric Taxxon. Give the NYT over to the Chapo guys. Let Gritty host the Oscars. Kill everyone now. Condone first degree murder. Advocate cannibalism. Eat shit.

Or you can respond like an intellectual and not someone who can't be bothered to think one rational thought in this debate.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

You’re the one who kinda carried-on instead of answering the question.

Ostro wanted me to confront something, and I did. The only problem I see with how I approached it is that it's not the total surrender he desperately seeks.

Conceding defeat in an argument = Total surrender

*hyperventilates in a brown paper bag*

[Luminesa]

Ostro wanted me to confront something, and I did. The only problem I see with how I approached it is that it's not the total surrender he desperately seeks.

Conceding defeat in an argument = Total surrender

*hyperventilates in a brown paper bag*

Hang in there good man! *Hands him some smelling salts.*

[Costa Fierro]

Works for PewDiePie. It's either that or "heated gaming moment".

People know PewDiePie is being satirical, that's the whole point of his channel. Claiming something is satirical after the fact because people called the person out for being a piece of shit (and Jeong is a piece of shit) is not an adequate defence, it's just covering for the fact that she is a shitty person with shitty opinions.

[Liriena]

Nah. Fire everybody. Hand Youtube over to Shaun, Hbomb, Contra, PhilosophyTube, Lindsay Ellis and Eric Taxxon. Give the NYT over to the Chapo guys. Let Gritty host the Oscars. Kill everyone now. Condone first degree murder. Advocate cannibalism. Eat shit.

Or you can respond like an intellectual and not someone who can't be bothered to think one rational thought in this debate.

I think I'm being rational. I disagree with Ostro's belief that progressivism really is, as a whole, a smorgasbord of anti-white anti-male bigotry that's driving men in general underground over fears of false sexual violence accusation, and male comedians in particular over fears of... getting yelled at for making an "offensive" joke. I don't observe the same widespread phenomena he claims to observe.

But also, it's hard to "respond like an intellectual" to heavily charged, and rather overwritten, accusations that boil down to "you're one of the bad people".

[Liriena]

Conceding defeat in an argument = Total surrender

*hyperventilates in a brown paper bag*

Hang in there good man! *Hands him some smelling salts.*

Never had smelling salts. What's the deal with those?

[Liriena]

Works for PewDiePie. It's either that or "heated gaming moment".

People know PewDiePie is being satirical

Satirical of what?

[Liriena]

I wasn't being sarcastic here:

[shrug] As I said, if Sarah Jeong had gotten fired over those tweets, even if she had been telling the truth about being satirical, I would have been fine with it. I actually struggle to understand why the NYT even wanted her in the first place, since I don't see anything about her that's really spectacular (although, then again, the NYT has made some weird choices for columnists over the years).

Is there a problem of obnoxious hot takes on gender and race getting almost automatic editorial validation with seemingly no concern for their journalistic rigour? Yeah, pretty much. We live in an era of nitpicking and wokeness, and the market is desperate to supply tons of that shit.

Is there a problem of certain kinds of bigotry getting undeserved media validation because the neoliberal understanding of identity politics tends to have the depth of a puddle and will fight tooth and nail for very stupid ideas because that's what they think the zeitgeist they're trying to assimilate calls for? Yeah, definitely.

But I don't think these problems are nearly as dramatic and apocalyptic as you try to make them sound, and I'm not interested in the snake oil you try to sell with that view.

That’s because that’s not the post I was referring to.

Ah. My bad.

[Vassenor]

People know PewDiePie is being satirical

Satirical of what?

Even if it was satire, any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.

[Liriena]

Trying to not lose sight of the topic and actually speak seriously, I gotta say... I do get where some of the men scared of #MeToo are coming from, at least when listening to men in my general vicinity (i.e. not the Anglosphere). Actually, I get two distinct feelings:

- Some seem to be genuinely scared of being falsely accused in public and having their lives ruined. Which is a legitimate concern although, in my personal opinion, it's legitimate in the same way that being afraid of getting struck by lightning or catching ebola is a legitimate concern. And it feels to me like their fear partially comes from a lack of real dialogue with women. There's this huge communicational gap, where the perspectives of the different genders are isolated from one another (even in the media). Women get weirdly otherized into this dangerous, unknowable unknown, and unchecked gut feelings and preconceptions take over.

- And then there's some whose fear seems to come from them kinda suspecting that they themselves actualy did something worth getting #MeToo'd for. I see this happen a lot with older men during casual conversations: there's this very defensive acknowledgement that, yes, they or others like them were sexually inappropriate towards women, and then comes the ridicule and fearmongering towards accusers, because to take their actions serious would mean acknowledging they could and should be held accountable for them.

Obviously, I'm not automatically placing anyone on this thread in either bag. I'm not talking about people who would engage in a serious, researched debate over it, like many here are doing.

[Liriena]

Satirical of what?

Even if it was satire, any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.

See: Youtube comments sections in general.

[Costa Fierro]

People know PewDiePie is being satirical

Satirical of what?

In whatever he's doing on his videos. I've only seen few of them though, mostly watching internet memes and Tik Tok stuff.

[The Black Forrest]

Works for PewDiePie. It's either that or "heated gaming moment".

People know PewDiePie is being satirical, that's the whole point of his channel. Claiming something is satirical after the fact because people called the person out for being a piece of shirt (and Jeong is a piece of shirt) is not an adequate defence, it's just covering for the fact that she is a shirtty person with shirtty opinions.

Meh. He is not that good at it. Good satire get's you going WTF?!?!?! ARE YOU....oh damn it! Never mind.

The evil empire know as Disney doesn't toss money makers without a good cause......

[Proctopeo]

Ostro wanted me to confront something, and I did. The only problem I see with how I approached it is that it's not the total surrender he desperately seeks.

Conceding defeat in an argument = Total surrender

*hyperventilates in a brown paper bag*

Being wrong is a crime if you know you're right and your opponent is wrong.
It's simple logic!

[Vassenor]

Works for PewDiePie. It's either that or "heated gaming moment".

People know PewDiePie is being satirical, that's the whole point of his channel. Claiming something is satirical after the fact because people called the person out for being a piece of shit (and Jeong is a piece of shit) is not an adequate defence, it's just covering for the fact that she is a shitty person with shitty opinions.

Pretty sure that this is calling PDP satirical after the fact because he got called out for being a racist.

[Thuzbekistan]

People know PewDiePie is being satirical, that's the whole point of his channel. Claiming something is satirical after the fact because people called the person out for being a piece of shit (and Jeong is a piece of shit) is not an adequate defence, it's just covering for the fact that she is a shitty person with shitty opinions.

Pretty sure that this is calling PDP satirical after the fact because he got called out for being a racist.

Pretty sure people ignore the fact that he called people niggers in games. That's racist edge for nothing but views.

[Ors Might]

Pretty sure that this is calling PDP satirical after the fact because he got called out for being a racist.

Pretty sure people ignore the fact that he called people niggers in games. That's racist edge for nothing but views.

I’m sure the people that 420 quick scoped him were very traumatized by being called niggers over a video game.

[Thuzbekistan]

Pretty sure people ignore the fact that he called people niggers in games. That's racist edge for nothing but views.

I’m sure the people that 420 quick scoped him were very traumatized by being called niggers over a video game.

Either way, we should call people out who say that in a derogatory manner.

[Ors Might]

I’m sure the people that 420 quick scoped him were very traumatized by being called niggers over a video game.

Either way, we should call people out who say that in a derogatory manner.

Debatable. If something can’t be proven to have an actual, substantial harm, it’s safe to ignore it. Especially if the supposed targets have nothing to say about it.

[Thuzbekistan]

Either way, we should call people out who say that in a derogatory manner.

Debatable. If something can’t be proven to have an actual, substantial harm, it’s safe to ignore it. Especially if the supposed targets have nothing to say about it.

Given its history and context, its use is not acceptable.

[Ors Might]

Debatable. If something can’t be proven to have an actual, substantial harm, it’s safe to ignore it. Especially if the supposed targets have nothing to say about it.

Given its history and context, its use is not acceptable.

It’s context is Pewdiepie shouting it after getting headshot in a video game. Is that really something to act all scandalized over as if it really matters? A gamer shouting something offensive in a video game?

[The Black Forrest]

Given its history and context, its use is not acceptable.

It’s context is Pewdiepie shouting it after getting headshot in a video game. Is that really something to act all scandalized over as if it really matters? A gamer shouting something offensive in a video game?

As an old *sighs* gamer and played countless matches......comments tend to be along the lines of "mother fucker!" and not "fucking nigger!" Having said that.....I can recall a few racial comments and faggot comments. Not as much now as people change and people tend to (at least in my arena) block such people.

People that aren't anti-Semitic usually don't shout out anti-Semitic things in the moment......