#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

[Earestinia]

Can I just say I love how reasonable the discourse in this forum is? I'm so glad its not the toxic trash fire I expected it to be. I was expecting the comment section on any political news video, instead I got an actual reasonable argument with valid points on both sides. Luv this community.
I personally tend to learn more liberal on this issue, but I get the point of the right. It does suck how hard it is to prove. really it surprises me that this is one of the only crimes with such a weird complication. I think thats partially due to the culture tho. regular assault, we all tend to agree on a definition, everyone knows it when they see it, and we all agree its wrong. Very few cases of people reporting false assaults become newsworthy because regular assault is uncontroversial. Maybe if we stopped loading sexual assault with all this political aggression and focused more on what we agree on it would stop being such a big deal.

[Rojava Free State]

And where do you get that idea from?

Well there's the fact that people are upset by Spain using multiple crimes instead of multiple degrees and nobody saying shit about the fact a man as a matter of law cannot be raped by a woman in the United Kingdom. We still won't classify "made to penetrate" as rape for statistical purposes. Organizations teach people to downplay the harm done to male victims. So you know, looking at stuff.

I think these ladies need to check their female privilege

[Des-Bal]

Can I just say I love how reasonable the discourse in this forum is? I'm so glad its not the toxic trash fire I expected it to be. I was expecting the comment section on any political news video, instead I got an actual reasonable argument with valid points on both sides. Luv this community.
I personally tend to learn more liberal on this issue, but I get the point of the right. It does suck how hard it is to prove. really it surprises me that this is one of the only crimes with such a weird complication. I think thats partially due to the culture tho. regular assault, we all tend to agree on a definition, everyone knows it when they see it, and we all agree its wrong. Very few cases of people reporting false assaults become newsworthy because regular assault is uncontroversial. Maybe if we stopped loading sexual assault with all this political aggression and focused more on what we agree on it would stop being such a big deal.

It's not purely political, if most people occasionally stabbed one another and the survival of our species in fact depended on it investigating when someone said they weren't down to be stabbed would be difficult.

[Dirty Americans]

Agriculturalism and poor mechanisation led to people having larger families, not values.

Values do play a role in family size, but that is in contrast to a more modern selfish contraceptive mode which postpones children for as long as possible. Once you take that out of the equation, things get strange rather quickly. The new neighbors (as in the couples in general, not one set of neighbors) on my block aren't particularly religious nor are they agricultural. But the babies keep popping up in the strollers (like on in the stroller and one in the you know what).

I was going to say "oven" but sometimes euphemisms actually sound worse than the word they are trying to represent.

[Mzeusia]

The is that Cultural Conservatism will bring back traditionalist values and therefore people will start having larger families.

Agriculturalism and poor mechanisation led to people having larger families, not values. Even in conservative nations the birth rate is declining rapidly, because we don't need kids to work the farm anymore. Even a sexually repressive backlash to things like this wont increase birth rates.

Yeah, I guess that's true. Well, better break out those ploughs and get me some cabbage soup.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Can I just say I love how reasonable the discourse in this forum is? I'm so glad its not the toxic trash fire I expected it to be. I was expecting the comment section on any political news video, instead I got an actual reasonable argument with valid points on both sides. Luv this community.
I personally tend to learn more liberal on this issue, but I get the point of the right. It does suck how hard it is to prove. really it surprises me that this is one of the only crimes with such a weird complication. I think thats partially due to the culture tho. regular assault, we all tend to agree on a definition, everyone knows it when they see it, and we all agree its wrong. Very few cases of people reporting false assaults become newsworthy because regular assault is uncontroversial. Maybe if we stopped loading sexual assault with all this political aggression and focused more on what we agree on it would stop being such a big deal.

Rape victims would like their rapests in jail, people who like due process would like a high standard of proof, as both one has to win out.
If he was in jail now, would I be happy? I suppose in some senses yes, but ultimately...what does it do to me. He's done the damage now, I'll never see this man again because he's fucked off back to Belgium hopefully never to return. I'd just like society to take male rape victims anywhere near as seriously as it does female ones and give them close to the same amount of support, it isn't much to ask.

[Des-Bal]

I think these ladies need to check their female privilege

I don't think that's a healthy or productive way of thinking or behaving.

[Rojava Free State]

I think these ladies need to check their female privilege

I don't think that's a healthy or productive way of thinking or behaving.

It isn't. If it sounds bad this way, it's equally bad when ppl yell "check your cis white male privilege!" It's satire. I'm not even white in america and im growing tired of everyone claiming to be oppressed and it's all the fault of the evil white man. I wish these so called "vulnerable minorities" would visit a north korean labor camp so they could see what real oppression is, as opposed to some neckbeard calling you a sexist name or racist slur online

[Vassenor]

I don't think that's a healthy or productive way of thinking or behaving.

It isn't. If it sounds bad this way, it's equally bad when ppl yell "check your cis white male privilege!" It's satire. I'm not even white in america and im growing tired of everyone claiming to be oppressed and it's all the fault of the evil white man. I wish these so called "vulnerable minorities" would visit a north korean labor camp so they could see what real oppression is, as opposed to some neckbeard calling you a sexist name or racist slur online

Are we doing Oppression Olympics again?

[Hirota]

I don't think that's a healthy or productive way of thinking or behaving.

It isn't. If it sounds bad this way, it's equally bad when ppl yell "check your cis white male privilege!" It's satire. I'm not even white in america and im growing tired of everyone claiming to be oppressed and it's all the fault of the evil white man. I wish these so called "vulnerable minorities" would visit a north korean labor camp so they could see what real oppression is, as opposed to some neckbeard calling you a sexist name or racist slur online

Still not productive Rojava old bean. I get the motivation, and how easy it might be to resort to those tactics, but sending someone to a labour camp just because of wrongthink is no better than those you are criticising.

[Des-Bal]

It isn't. If it sounds bad this way, it's equally bad when ppl yell "check your cis white male privilege!" It's satire. I'm not even white in america and im growing tired of everyone claiming to be oppressed and it's all the fault of the evil white man. I wish these so called "vulnerable minorities" would visit a north korean labor camp so they could see what real oppression is, as opposed to some neckbeard calling you a sexist name or racist slur online

When you see someone's shit as unwarranted and destructive mimicking them is not the solution.

[Rezmaeristan]

My hope is that this eventually reverses the sexual revolution ushering in a new age of cultural conservatism, high fertility rates, and general good feelings.

How will cultural conservatism improve fertility rates?

And how will constant repression make people feel good?

Cultural conservatism says getting married and having kids ASAP is important. In a culturally conservative society, being a "Christmas Cake"(not married at 25) will be seen as a negative(unless you're a priest or ascetic) Also, if we could get fewer people going to college(i.e. all the people going there who wouldn't have 35 years ago), that would help.

As for "constant repression" aka chastity and ordered sexual desires:

No more objectification. People will see each other as people, not as sex objects. There will always be few bad apples but it won't be the norm. Also, a greater stigma on pre/extra-marital sex will reduce its negative effects on relationships.

[Vassenor]

Cultural conservatism says getting married and having kids ASAP is important. In a culturally conservative society, being a "Christmas Cake"(not married at 25) will be seen as a negative(unless you're a priest or ascetic) Also, if we could get fewer people going to college(i.e. all the people going there who wouldn't have 35 years ago), that would help.

As for "constant repression" aka chastity and ordered sexual desires:

No more objectification. People will see each other as people, not as sex objects. There will always be few bad apples but it won't be the norm. Also, a greater stigma on pre/extra-marital sex will reduce its negative effects on relationships.

Or we could, you know, not drag society kicking and screaming back to the nineteenth century.

[Hirota]

It isn't. If it sounds bad this way, it's equally bad when ppl yell "check your cis white male privilege!" It's satire. I'm not even white in america and im growing tired of everyone claiming to be oppressed and it's all the fault of the evil white man. I wish these so called "vulnerable minorities" would visit a north korean labor camp so they could see what real oppression is, as opposed to some neckbeard calling you a sexist name or racist slur online

Are we doing Oppression Olympics again?

Rojava might be, you might be projecting. Das and I are arguing against indulging in it and sending people to the work gangs for wrongthink

[Rezmaeristan]

Cultural conservatism says getting married and having kids ASAP is important. In a culturally conservative society, being a "Christmas Cake"(not married at 25) will be seen as a negative(unless you're a priest or ascetic) Also, if we could get fewer people going to college(i.e. all the people going there who wouldn't have 35 years ago), that would help.

As for "constant repression" aka chastity and ordered sexual desires:

No more objectification. People will see each other as people, not as sex objects. There will always be few bad apples but it won't be the norm. Also, a greater stigma on pre/extra-marital sex will reduce its negative effects on relationships.

Or we could, you know, not drag society kicking and screaming back to the nineteenth century.

Much of Central Africa is like this at the moment. Is it any wonder they're breeding like rabbits? If we wish to breed like rabbits(which we're not at the moment, unfortunately), we must study those who do.

[Vassenor]

Are we doing Oppression Olympics again?

Rojava might be, you might be projecting. Das and I are arguing against indulging in it.

I mean I think saying that we can't debate about problems that may or may not exist in our society because people elsewhere have it worse is kind of stupid.

[Vassenor]

Or we could, you know, not drag society kicking and screaming back to the nineteenth century.

Much of Central Africa is like this at the moment. Is it any wonder they're breeding like rabbits? If we wish to breed like rabbits(which we're not at the moment, unfortunately), we must study those who do.

So why is there a need to increase fertility rates?

[Costa Fierro]

So why is there a need to increase fertility rates?

Among other things, developed countries have a birthrate at the moment that is below the rate of replacement, that is, countries are projected to start shrinking in population rather than grow. Japan and Germany are two of these countries that spring to mind.

This may cause a number of consequences, chief among which is the smaller tax base from which governments can draw the money needed to fund social services, particularly pensions. There's also the issue of having not enough qualified workers in certain industries, these can cause production issues for manufacturing companies and generally have businesses not running effectively.

This should "concern" most people (I obviously don't give a single fuck because I'll be dead before I'm 60) because our generation and those following us will be seeing the effects of this in the future.

[-Ocelot-]

Much of Central Africa is like this at the moment. Is it any wonder they're breeding like rabbits? If we wish to breed like rabbits(which we're not at the moment, unfortunately), we must study those who do.

So why is there a need to increase fertility rates?

To speed up resource depletion and guarantee disastrous climate change, of course!

[Lendenburgh]

So why is there a need to increase fertility rates?

Among other things, developed countries have a birthrate at the moment that is below the rate of replacement, that is, countries are projected to start shrinking in population rather than grow. Japan and Germany are two of these countries that spring to mind.

This may cause a number of consequences, chief among which is the smaller tax base from which governments can draw the money needed to fund social services, particularly pensions. There's also the issue of having not enough qualified workers in certain industries, these can cause production issues for manufacturing companies and generally have businesses not running effectively.

This should "concern" most people (I obviously don't give a single fuck because I'll be dead before I'm 60) because our generation and those following us will be seeing the effects of this in the future.

Or, we could accept the conventional logic accepted by most human geographers that birth rates fall in developed societies, and the world population will level out around 10 billion, and instead use immigration to fill gaps in the economy. Automation will reduce the need for low-skilled labor anyways, so it doesn't equate that we need more people for labor... and if the economy is constantly improving in productivity and generating more wealth regardless of population (Germany's economy has been growing quite in pace with its comparable counterparts, and Japan's economy isn't exactly crashing either), the need for more native-born people in any given society just... isn't there. Once again, in places like Japan there is a need for labor (at least in the short term) which could arguably be filled by immigration.

In terms of supporting pensioners, immigrants would help balance the age distribution of the population and would lead to more tax-paying citizens. (Specific to America: It would also help if state pensions didn't get raided into trillions of dollars in debt as well)

[Petrasylvania]

Cultural conservatism says getting married and having kids ASAP is important. In a culturally conservative society, being a "Christmas Cake"(not married at 25) will be seen as a negative(unless you're a priest or ascetic) Also, if we could get fewer people going to college(i.e. all the people going there who wouldn't have 35 years ago), that would help.

As for "constant repression" aka chastity and ordered sexual desires:

No more objectification. People will see each other as people, not as sex objects. There will always be few bad apples but it won't be the norm. Also, a greater stigma on pre/extra-marital sex will reduce its negative effects on relationships.

Or we could, you know, not drag society kicking and screaming back to the nineteenth century.

Wonder how many cried upon realizing The Handmaid's Tale isn't a documentary.

[Costa Fierro]

Wonder how many cried upon realizing The Handmaid's Tale isn't a documentary.

They probably rejoiced when they found out they get to beat men to death if they're falsely accused of rape.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Or we could, you know, not drag society kicking and screaming back to the nineteenth century.

Wonder how many cried upon realizing The Handmaid's Tale isn't a documentary.

I wonder how many people genuinely believe that sound bites make you look better at debating. Their's a fair few.

[Rojava Free State]

It isn't. If it sounds bad this way, it's equally bad when ppl yell "check your cis white male privilege!" It's satire. I'm not even white in america and im growing tired of everyone claiming to be oppressed and it's all the fault of the evil white man. I wish these so called "vulnerable minorities" would visit a north korean labor camp so they could see what real oppression is, as opposed to some neckbeard calling you a sexist name or racist slur online

Still not productive Rojava old bean. I get the motivation, and how easy it might be to resort to those tactics, but sending someone to a labour camp just because of wrongthink is no better than those you are criticising.

Jacksonville is more akin to escape from new york. we drop u in and u fight your way through streets of angry gang members, homeless people, giant terrifying bugs, hot weather and alligators.
In all seriousness it was a joke and a sneak diss at florida, but fr we need to stop treating these kinds of ppl as any more respectable than flat earthers

[Rojava Free State]

Rojava might be, you might be projecting. Das and I are arguing against indulging in it.

I mean I think saying that we can't debate about problems that may or may not exist in our society because people elsewhere have it worse is kind of stupid.

There's a difference between facing societal ills and literally claiming oppression. It's like if someone who didnt like me smashed my front window with a rock and i compared it to the war in iraq. That's a huge leap, just like it's a huge leap to turn a rude online comment or the ignorance of some fellow citizens into "oppression." Women are not oppressed in America. The government is not terrorizing women with gun squads or forcing businesses to not pay them or denying them the right to vote as a group anymore. You cannot convince me that any entire demographic group in America is oppressed, because many of those who claim it the most refer to the behavior of some random asshole or harmless comments that easily offended them as proof of "oppression." We can criticize aspects of our society and i think there's plenty to fix with america, but female oppression is not on the list