#MeToo Becomes #LeaveMeAlone

[Kaggeceria]

Are you actually going to do anything in this thread besides pathetically sniping at people?

You mean like you are doing right now? Hours after the fact?

And you're responding hours after the fact so you really can't even complain.

And I'm not even really sniping. I'm just pointing out that most of what you've done in this thread is shoot flimsy and pathetic spitballs at people without actually addressing what they're saying. Seems to me you're far more fragile than anyone else here as you lash out angrily when confronted with a reality that you don't particularly like.

Sad.

[Kaggeceria]

You must have a big shovel.

Mechanical.

It would take an excavator to shovel all those words in my mouth.

[Galloism]

People are never just individuals, though. Sometimes you can't avoid addressing the actions of individuals as a reflection of broader patterns of behavior and thought.

This is probably not a sentiment you really want to try and push across society as a rule of thumb. Basically, it's saying that sexist and racial stereotyping can't be avoided.

I'd prefer to think we can stop thinking in such ways. I'm an idealist at heart.

[Liriena]

You mean like you are doing right now? Hours after the fact?

And you're responding hours after the fact so you really can't even complain.

And I'm not even really sniping. I'm just pointing out that most of what you've done in this thread is shoot flimsy and pathetic spitballs at people without actually addressing what they're saying. Seems to me you're far more fragile than anyone else here as you lash out angrily when confronted with a reality that you don't particularly like.

Sad.

No, but I do appreciate the hard work you put into that sweet, sweet bait.

[Liriena]

People are never just individuals, though. Sometimes you can't avoid addressing the actions of individuals as a reflection of broader patterns of behavior and thought.

This is probably not a sentiment you really want to try and push across society as a rule of thumb.

I would absolutely reject attempts to treat individual behavior as reflective of some sort of essence to entire genders, sexual orientations, races, ethnicities, etc., and I will admit that my original wording was too broad for its own good.

I'm an idealist at heart.

#1 reason you're my favorite MRA, tbh.

[Kaggeceria]

And you're responding hours after the fact so you really can't even complain.

And I'm not even really sniping. I'm just pointing out that most of what you've done in this thread is shoot flimsy and pathetic spitballs at people without actually addressing what they're saying. Seems to me you're far more fragile than anyone else here as you lash out angrily when confronted with a reality that you don't particularly like.

Sad.

No, but I do appreciate the hard work you put into that sweet, sweet bait.

At least I put work into out. You can't even be bothered to do that much.

[Tronn]

You think anyone could be called a hero for beating the shit out of a man?

I think if a woman was beating the shit out of a man who was shouting racist shit, she'd have been called a hero by certain sections of the media, yes.

What if it was vice versa? like with Kareem Hunt?

[Liriena]

No, but I do appreciate the hard work you put into that sweet, sweet bait.

At least I put work into out. You can't even be bothered to do that much.

So if I keep responding you'll gladly waste serious time and effort?

Man, trolls would love you.

[South Ccanda]

People are never just individuals, though. Sometimes you can't avoid addressing the actions of individuals as a reflection of broader patterns of behavior and thought.

This is probably not a sentiment you really want to try and push across society as a rule of thumb. Basically, it's saying that sexist and racial stereotyping can't be avoided.

I'd prefer to think we can stop thinking in such ways. I'm an idealist at heart.

For me, it would be ideal that things like sexism and racism didn't exist, but not in the way that stereotypes didn't exist but rather no one pointed out stereotypes in hate. I'm the Tragedy=comedy type and I wish those around me were the same.

[Liriena]

You think anyone could be called a hero for beating the shit out of a man?

I think if a woman was beating the shit out of a man who was shouting racist shit, she'd have been called a hero by certain sections of the media, yes.

Friendly reminder that mainstream media almost exclusively reacted to Richard Spencer getting punched by clutching its pearls and asking philosophers and lawyers to confirm that punching nazis is actually a crime.

[South Ccanda]

I think if a woman was beating the shit out of a man who was shouting racist shit, she'd have been called a hero by certain sections of the media, yes.

What if it was vice versa? like with Kareem Hunt?

applauded the same way in my court.

[South Ccanda]

I think if a woman was beating the shit out of a man who was shouting racist shit, she'd have been called a hero by certain sections of the media, yes.

Friendly reminder that mainstream media almost exclusively reacted to Richard Spencer getting punched by clutching its pearls and asking philosophers and lawyers to confirm that punching nazis is actually a crime.

could you please rephrase that?

[Kaggeceria]

At least I put work into out. You can't even be bothered to do that much.

So if I keep responding you'll gladly waste serious time and effort?

Man, trolls would love you.

Well, it's a good thing you're not a troll. After all, that would be sorely against NS rules, right?

[Vassenor]

Friendly reminder that mainstream media almost exclusively reacted to Richard Spencer getting punched by clutching its pearls and asking philosophers and lawyers to confirm that punching nazis is actually a crime.

could you please rephrase that?

The guy who decked Richard Spencer live on television wasn't lauded as a hero.

[Liriena]

Friendly reminder that mainstream media almost exclusively reacted to Richard Spencer getting punched by clutching its pearls and asking philosophers and lawyers to confirm that punching nazis is actually a crime.

could you please rephrase that?

When Richard Spencer got punched on camera, mainstream media reacted by condemning the violence, and interviewed philosophers and lawyers to confirm that punching him was bad.

[Liriena]

So if I keep responding you'll gladly waste serious time and effort?

Man, trolls would love you.

Well, it's a good thing you're not a troll. After all, that would be sorely against NS rules, right?

I don't like being malicious.

[Ostroeuropa]

So your solution to male paranoia is silencing accusers.in general. Gotcha.

Actually, false rape accusation just hurt victims even more, because it causes the legal system to be more suspicious of actual victims, which causes them to be less trusting of the legal system.

I shouldn't have to point out how this can create a postive feedback loop, should I?

Victims shouldn't be silenced, in fact, they should be encouraged to speak up. But false accusations that a lot of the time get proven false and spread around the nation? That shit's just gonna make things harder for actual victims.

Your mistake is assuming that the people who push these regular witch hunts give a fuck about victims compared to harming men. The collapse of due process on university campuses and in the UK, with many organizations opposing rolling back the campus kangaroo courts and so on, demonstrate that there is no concern for guilty or innocent and so on, and as others have noted, publications are prepared to run with almost anything that helps push a men as dangerous predators narrative, from simple social awkwardness up to blatantly false claims, with a sizable faction of the population who simple don't care about anything other than that the newest male target has been identified.

Beyond that, we've also seen feminist dogmatism reach the point where there is the problem of disagreeing with a relentless gynocentrism and female chauvinism being constantly conflated with misogyny, and mens rights discussions and organizations are suppressed, and so on. Not only is this to do with the rape/sexual assault thing, but it represents an escalation on all fronts that has consequences. Because women aren't held to account at all, they are allowed to push for absurd social standards against men they themselves would never be able to uphold, often demanding they believe mutually contradictory things because the moment they comment on gender dynamics in a way that upsets any woman at all, they're sexist and should be sued. The silencing effect this has had in general has already damaged relations between men and women, and this latest escalation merely damages it more.

Feminists seem angry that ultimately they cannot force men to associate with people who are hostile to them, their rights, and their equality and are intent on forcing them into silence and subjugation. Women have done essentially nothing to oppose this movement that acts in their name to abuse and oppress men, and are likewise facing the consequences of the fallout. Men aren't just up and deciding to be assholes. It's that feminism is relentlessly hostile and there is nothing a man can do to make feminists not hate them and want to fuck them over except doing and saying nothing at all, because ultimately their lens is about pathologizing and hating any and all male agency that isn't used purely for womens benefit (And, since different women want different things, they can ultimately pathologize all male agency.).

If you beat your dog no matter what it does, eventually, it'll just stop doing anything at all and withdraw.

[South Ccanda]

could you please rephrase that?

The guy who decked Richard Spencer live on television wasn't lauded as a hero.

oh yeah. Honestly, in my opinion, anyone who beats up anyone over something that is said, unless said person is asking for a call to action, they should be shunned by media. Richard Spencer, Nazi or not, shouldn't have been punched over his political beliefs and the person who did it should have been arrested and jailed.

*EDIT* Although he wasn't made a hero in the face of the media, many on the left loved the man. I even ran into a person who claimed they thought the professor who hit a man with a bike lock was a hero.

[Galloism]

This is probably not a sentiment you really want to try and push across society as a rule of thumb.

I would absolutely reject attempts to treat individual behavior as reflective of some sort of essence to entire genders, sexual orientations, races, ethnicities, etc., and I will admit that my original wording was too broad for its own good.

That's good, but keep in mind you responded specifically to the "oppressor" and "oppressed" group in making it. So since we don't want to use that rule of thumb across gender, sex, race, ethnicity, etc, along what line is is ok to address the actions of individuals as a reflection of broader patterns of behavior and thought, in reference to the "oppressor" and "oppressed"?

Please clarify.

I'm an idealist at heart.

#1 reason you're my favorite MRA, tbh.

Thanks, but I'm not. I refuse to identify as an MRA for the same reason I refuse to identify as a feminist.

I seek equality.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Honestly, the #Metoo movement mutated into something far beyond its original scope. Initially, it was bringing attention to sexual abuse in the workplace, to real rapes and other acts of misconduct. But as with many things like this, it grew legs and bolted in every direction - and now it's grown into this thing where people are causing witch-hunts over someone patting their shoulder, or making a simple one-off comment.

It's not only damaging to its original mission now, but it's also damaging to gender-relations as OP states, because it makes male colleagues reconsider even speaking with their female counterparts for fear of backlash from it. And now, a large section of the population won't take the original message of #MeToo as seriously, simply because now there's too many people who've saturated the brand with petty issues.

[Vassenor]

Honestly, the #Metoo movement mutated into something far beyond its original scope. Initially, it was bringing attention to sexual abuse in the workplace, to real rapes and other acts of misconduct. But as with many things like this, it grew legs and bolted in every direction - and now it's grown into this thing where people are causing witch-hunts over someone patting their shoulder, or making a simple one-off comment.

It's not only damaging to its original mission now, but it's also damaging to gender-relations as OP states, because it makes male colleagues reconsider even speaking with their female counterparts for fear of backlash from it. And now, a large section of the population won't take the original message of #MeToo as seriously, simply because now there's too many people who've saturated the brand with petty issues.

You do realise it's been pointed out the OP has been misrepresenting the situation, right?

[Galloism]

could you please rephrase that?

The guy who decked Richard Spencer live on television wasn't lauded as a hero.

We actually did a survey based around that incident for some reason.

https://www.cato.org/blog/51-strong-lib ... unch-nazis

21% of strong conservatives, 32% of moderates, and 51% of strong liberals thought it was morally acceptable to punch nazis. 32% of americans. That doesn't sound so terrible, until you realize a jury is 12 members and that would mean 4 of them would find it morally acceptable to assault people for what they say.

[Ostroeuropa]

I would absolutely reject attempts to treat individual behavior as reflective of some sort of essence to entire genders, sexual orientations, races, ethnicities, etc., and I will admit that my original wording was too broad for its own good.

That's good, but keep in mind you responded specifically to the "oppressor" and "oppressed" group in making it. So since we don't want to use that rule of thumb across gender, sex, race, ethnicity, etc, along what line is is ok to address the actions of individuals as a reflection of broader patterns of behavior and thought, in reference to the "oppressor" and "oppressed"?

Please clarify.

#1 reason you're my favorite MRA, tbh.

Thanks, but I'm not. I refuse to identify as an MRA for the same reason I refuse to identify as a feminist.

I seek equality.

MRAs support equality too. The refusal to consider themselves a panacea is the important part.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Honestly, the #Metoo movement mutated into something far beyond its original scope. Initially, it was bringing attention to sexual abuse in the workplace, to real rapes and other acts of misconduct. But as with many things like this, it grew legs and bolted in every direction - and now it's grown into this thing where people are causing witch-hunts over someone patting their shoulder, or making a simple one-off comment.

It's not only damaging to its original mission now, but it's also damaging to gender-relations as OP states, because it makes male colleagues reconsider even speaking with their female counterparts for fear of backlash from it. And now, a large section of the population won't take the original message of #MeToo as seriously, simply because now there's too many people who've saturated the brand with petty issues.

You do realise it's been pointed out the OP has been misrepresenting the situation, right?

I only just joined the discussion and gave my two-cents on the situation, regardless of the articles - that's my vague perception of the situation. I honestly haven't followed it too much, but from what I've seen, from a soully personal perspective - that tends to be the case. I know people IRL, who feel this way about it - and I know people online who share these views. And of course, it's possible I may be stuck in a niche, but I'm simply coming from this stand-point.

[Tobleste]

Hard to say. Historically, probably in the tens of thousands at least, if not hundreds of thousands. Keep in mind the United States has a long history of punishing men, especially black men, on some egregiously flimsy grounds for raping our good white women.

That frequently ended with lynching.

That's a good point... but we are talking about a radically different phenomenon with #MeToo. If we speak in terms of the most prominent cases, the pattern in #MeToo is that the men who are accused are generally men who were in a position of power and abused that position of power to engage in sexual violence towards both men and women with impunity. That's not the same as when false rape accusations were used against a systematically oppressed and marginalized underclass to cement prejudice and validate violence against the people belonging to that underclass.

A lot of apologists tried to paint Kavanaugh as the victim of a "lynching", but if you compare the persons and the stakes involved, to call what he had to go through a "lynching" is an insult to the victims of literal lynchings. Kavanaugh wasn't at risk of being kidnapped, tortured and killed with impunity. He was at risk of not being chosen for a position of great power. And more importantly, Kavanaugh was already a man with considerable power and privilege, relatively speaking.

Something tells me the average defender of Kavanaugh is comfortable with that.