Would you kill Hitler?

[Dogmeat]

Kill Hitler AND Himmler, Goebbels, Goering etc. Return to 2018 buy a history book list the new Nazi leaders, go kill them.
Rinse wash repeat.

You do realise killing every single Right-Wing German party member would be a problem right? Because if there was no Right-Wing to lead Germany, do you know who would take their place?

The left

Hitler may have been an asshole (and the Nazis too), but if there's one thing Germany was, it was a bulwark against Communism. If the Nazis never existed, than it most likely would've been the case that the Communists would've taken over Germany

What happens when Germany turns red you may ask? Well do you guys now C&C Red Alert? Pretty much that, but worse. With no Nazi Germany to oppose Stalin and weaken the USSR, and with Europe's strongest central economic and military power now Communist, we would probably see a Europe completely overrun by the Soviets, and a WW2 probably even more deadly than our own.

Add that with Stalin's own paranoia and hatred of the Jews, along with the USSR's own various genocides and their policy of working people to death, mass persecutions and an oppression and purging system arguably even worse than Nazi Germany's, and you have a Europe that wished Hitler was around

You can't just take it for granted that a lack of Hitler means the commies take Germany. Any number of other things could have happened.

Although, we can take it for granted that a presence of Hitler means the commies take half of it.

[Ifreann]

Excellent.

You do realise Stalin's Regime

You do realise that a left wing government in Weimar Germany doesn't mean appointing Stalin to be Fuhrer, right?

was just as bad as Hitler's right?

---

Excellent.

Didn't know you were a Stalinist lol

You do realise that a left wing government in Weimar Germany doesn't mean appointing Stalin to be Fuhrer, right?

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

You do realise Stalin's Regime was just as bad as Hitler's right?

In National Socialism, we kill sub-humans, that is bad. We should all go down the Communist route. Where everyone has an equal chance and right to die by the hands of mass genocide and gulags

The GDR didn't carry out genocide, and they were quite definitely Stalinist...

I'm fairly certain that's just because it came after the racial genocides of Nazi Germany, which significantly influenced the geopolitical mindsets of both Communists and the West

Plus by that time most of who would be considered "subhuman" or danger to the state by then were already killed by the Nazis (Jews, Catholics, Capitalists, etc), so there wasn't really anyone to genocide against

[Caracasus]

Kill Hitler AND Himmler, Goebbels, Goering etc. Return to 2018 buy a history book list the new Nazi leaders, go kill them.
Rinse wash repeat.

You do realise killing every single Right-Wing German party member would be a problem right? Because if there was no Right-Wing to lead Germany, do you know who would take their place?

The left

Hitler may have been an asshole (and the Nazis too), but if there's one thing Germany was, it was a bulwark against Communism. If the Nazis never existed, than it most likely would've been the case that the Communists would've taken over Germany

What happens when Germany turns red you may ask? Well do you guys now C&C Red Alert? Pretty much that, but worse. With no Nazi Germany to oppose Stalin and weaken the USSR, and with Europe's strongest central economic and military power now Communist, we would probably see a Europe completely overrun by the Soviets, and a WW2 probably even more deadly than our own.

Add that with Stalin's own paranoia and hatred of the Jews, along with the USSR's own various genocides and their policy of working people to death, mass persecutions and an oppression and purging system arguably even worse than Nazi Germany's, and you have a Europe that wished Hitler was around

Holy shit, did you actually infer Hitler was at least less bad for the jews? That's... um... well, that sure is something.

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

You do realise Stalin's Regime

You do realise that a left wing government in Weimar Germany doesn't mean appointing Stalin to be Fuhrer, right?

was just as bad as Hitler's right?

---

Didn't know you were a Stalinist lol

Yeah, but it does mean that Germany most likely would've allied with the USSR, and eventually the Left-Wing government most likely would've been supplanted by a Soviet puppet. So eventually a Stalinist Regime would've taken power in Germany.

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_prisoner_massacres
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decossackization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mo ... eph_Stalin
http://i.imgur.com/slAh2.jpg

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

You do realise killing every single Right-Wing German party member would be a problem right? Because if there was no Right-Wing to lead Germany, do you know who would take their place?

The left

Hitler may have been an asshole (and the Nazis too), but if there's one thing Germany was, it was a bulwark against Communism. If the Nazis never existed, than it most likely would've been the case that the Communists would've taken over Germany

What happens when Germany turns red you may ask? Well do you guys now C&C Red Alert? Pretty much that, but worse. With no Nazi Germany to oppose Stalin and weaken the USSR, and with Europe's strongest central economic and military power now Communist, we would probably see a Europe completely overrun by the Soviets, and a WW2 probably even more deadly than our own.

Add that with Stalin's own paranoia and hatred of the Jews, along with the USSR's own various genocides and their policy of working people to death, mass persecutions and an oppression and purging system arguably even worse than Nazi Germany's, and you have a Europe that wished Hitler was around

Holy shit, did you actually infer Hitler was at least less bad for the jews? That's... um... well, that sure is something.

I didn't mean that, I mean that if Stalin had his way, there basically would've been another Holocaust just as bad as Germany's (Stalin, too, had a massive hatred and paranoia of the Jews similar to Hitler)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism

[Dogmeat]

Holy shit, did you actually infer Hitler was at least less bad for the jews? That's... um... well, that sure is something.

I didn't mean that, I mean that if Stalin had his way, there basically would've been another Holocaust just as bad as Germany's (Stalin, too, had a massive hatred and paranoia of the Jews similar to Hitler)

When Stalin literally ruled over half of Germany, he didn't kill all the Jews. He also voted for the creation if Israel.

Stalin is all kinds of bad, and indeed antisemitic, but you can't say he would have been worse for the Jews when the record shows that he wasn't.

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

You do realise killing every single Right-Wing German party member would be a problem right? Because if there was no Right-Wing to lead Germany, do you know who would take their place?

The left

Hitler may have been an asshole (and the Nazis too), but if there's one thing Germany was, it was a bulwark against Communism. If the Nazis never existed, than it most likely would've been the case that the Communists would've taken over Germany

What happens when Germany turns red you may ask? Well do you guys now C&C Red Alert? Pretty much that, but worse. With no Nazi Germany to oppose Stalin and weaken the USSR, and with Europe's strongest central economic and military power now Communist, we would probably see a Europe completely overrun by the Soviets, and a WW2 probably even more deadly than our own.

Add that with Stalin's own paranoia and hatred of the Jews, along with the USSR's own various genocides and their policy of working people to death, mass persecutions and an oppression and purging system arguably even worse than Nazi Germany's, and you have a Europe that wished Hitler was around

You can't just take it for granted that a lack of Hitler means the commies take Germany. Any number of other things could have happened.

Although, we can take it for granted that a presence of Hitler means the commies take half of it.

Ya, but without Hitler as a massive influential figurehead for the right and the Nazi Party's and SA's mass persecution of the communists, that means that the left (and radical left) would've had a much higher chance

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

I didn't mean that, I mean that if Stalin had his way, there basically would've been another Holocaust just as bad as Germany's (Stalin, too, had a massive hatred and paranoia of the Jews similar to Hitler)

When Stalin literally ruled over half of Germany, he didn't kill all the Jews. He also voted for the creation if Israel.

Stalin is all kinds of bad, and indeed antisemitic, but you can't say he would have been worse for the Jews when the record shows that he wasn't.

I mean, when your arch nemesis was a rather huge advocate for the extermination of the Jews, and is publically condemned, along with his ideas, you tend to want to stray away from that idea as much as possible

Plus, how exactly would he have killed the Jews when there were barely any Jews left? Most were either dead or had ran away to the West or to Israel

[Ifreann]

You do realise that a left wing government in Weimar Germany doesn't mean appointing Stalin to be Fuhrer, right?

---

Yeah, but it does mean that Germany most likely would've allied with the USSR, and eventually the Left-Wing government most likely would've been supplanted by a Soviet puppet. So eventually a Stalinist Regime would've taken power in Germany.

Or maybe a socialist Weimar republic would have become the rallying point for an alliance of other democratic and left wing European states.

[Hrythingia]

Yeah, but it does mean that Germany most likely would've allied with the USSR, and eventually the Left-Wing government most likely would've been supplanted by a Soviet puppet. So eventually a Stalinist Regime would've taken power in Germany.

Or maybe a socialist Weimar republic would have become the rallying point for an alliance of other democratic and left wing European states.

Which would have been worse than what actually happened.

[Alvecia]

It’s interesting how the amount of “You can’t know what killing Hitler would do to history” is pretty equally matched by the amount of “Stalin and the commies would absolutely take over Europe without Hitler”

[Washington Resistance Army]

It’s interesting how the amount of “You can’t know what killing Hitler would do to history” is pretty equally matched by the amount of “Stalin and the commies would absolutely take over Europe without Hitler”

It's not exactly a secret that Stalin wanted to push west, there's tons of work on the topic. Even with how things turned out he still ended up taking half the continent.

[Ifreann]

I didn't mean that, I mean that if Stalin had his way, there basically would've been another Holocaust just as bad as Germany's (Stalin, too, had a massive hatred and paranoia of the Jews similar to Hitler)

When Stalin literally ruled over half of Germany, he didn't kill all the Jews. He also voted for the creation if Israel.

Stalin is all kinds of bad, and indeed antisemitic, but you can't say he would have been worse for the Jews when the record shows that he wasn't.

But you see Dogmeat, this poster knows in their heart that Stalin is worse than Hitler. So where Hitler killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, Stalin would obviously have killed more than that. Because Stalin is worse than Hitler.

---

Or maybe a socialist Weimar republic would have become the rallying point for an alliance of other democratic and left wing European states.

Which would have been worse than what actually happened.

Imagine, a whole continent of people working to support each other instead of working to enrich their employers.

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

Yeah, but it does mean that Germany most likely would've allied with the USSR, and eventually the Left-Wing government most likely would've been supplanted by a Soviet puppet. So eventually a Stalinist Regime would've taken power in Germany.

Or maybe a socialist Weimar republic would have become the rallying point for an alliance of other democratic and left wing European states.

I find that highly unlikely considering the radical socialism that plagued Europe at the time, especially with Stalinism being such a focal point later in time

Remember that the Sparticist Rebellions happened by themselves, Hitler wasn't involved whatsoever. Violent and Radical far left-wing coup attempts and rebellions happened frequently in Germany (Sparticist Rebellion, Bavarian Commune), if without right-wing opposition and supported by the Soviets, they could've taken power

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

Which would have been worse than what actually happened.

Imagine, a whole continent of people working to support each other instead of working to enrich their employers.

I wish that was the case, but unfortunately, the turbulent and violent era of the time probably wouldn't have allowed Germany to go down such a path

Especially since many elements in Germany were still extremely Revanchist over their lost during WW1

[The New California Republic]

by that time most of who would be considered "subhuman" or danger to the state by then were already killed by the Nazis (Jews, Catholics, Capitalists, etc), so there wasn't really anyone to genocide against

Um...you do know that major businesses in Germany were complicit with the crimes of the Nazis, right? The likes of IG Farben, Focke-Wulf, Porsche, Siemens? Ring a bell now?

[Hrythingia]

When Stalin literally ruled over half of Germany, he didn't kill all the Jews. He also voted for the creation if Israel.

Stalin is all kinds of bad, and indeed antisemitic, but you can't say he would have been worse for the Jews when the record shows that he wasn't.

But you see Dogmeat, this poster knows in their heart that Stalin is worse than Hitler. So where Hitler killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, Stalin would obviously have killed more than that. Because Stalin is worse than Hitler.

---

Which would have been worse than what actually happened.

Imagine, a whole continent of people working to support each other instead of working to enrich their employers.

Eh, I prefer a continent of catholicism, monarchy and classical arts. Also as a Briton what the 'continent' does I care little for lest it starts leaking over here, which it would have done. Labour was on the rise as it was, sadly.

[The New California Republic]

Imagine, a whole continent of people working to support each other instead of working to enrich their employers.

Eh, I prefer a continent of catholicism, monarchy and classical arts.

So you want to time travel? Cool...

[Ifreann]

It’s interesting how the amount of “You can’t know what killing Hitler would do to history” is pretty equally matched by the amount of “Stalin and the commies would absolutely take over Europe without Hitler”

Not only would he have taken over Europe, but would have carried out an even worse Holocaust.

---

Or maybe a socialist Weimar republic would have become the rallying point for an alliance of other democratic and left wing European states.

I find that highly unlikely considering the radical socialism that plagued Europe at the time, especially with Stalinism being such a focal point later in time

Remember that the Sparticist Rebellions happened by themselves, Hitler wasn't involved whatsoever. Violent and Radical far left-wing coup attempts and rebellions happened frequently in Germany (Sparticist Rebellion, Bavarian Commune), if without right-wing opposition and supported by the Soviets, they could've taken power

So socialism was very popular at the time, and the Weimar Republic held elections, but without Hitler what would actually have happened is that a violent socialist rebellion would have thrown down the democratic government and joined the USSR.

That doesn't sound terribly plausible.

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

by that time most of who would be considered "subhuman" or danger to the state by then were already killed by the Nazis (Jews, Catholics, Capitalists, etc), so there wasn't really anyone to genocide against

Um...you do know that major businesses in Germany were complicit with the crimes of the Nazis, right? The likes of IG Farben, Focke-Wulf, Porsche, Siemens? Ring a bell now?

Ya but most of those businessmen probably either escaped West or were already employed by the Soviets

Besides, can you really mass genocide company employees?

[Hammer Britannia]

It’s interesting how the amount of “You can’t know what killing Hitler would do to history” is pretty equally matched by the amount of “Stalin and the commies would absolutely take over Europe without Hitler”

It's not exactly a secret that Stalin wanted to push west, there's tons of work on the topic. Even with how things turned out he still ended up taking half the continent.

Stalin unironically wanted 1984's Eurasia

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

It’s interesting how the amount of “You can’t know what killing Hitler would do to history” is pretty equally matched by the amount of “Stalin and the commies would absolutely take over Europe without Hitler”

Not only would he have taken over Europe, but would have carried out an even worse Holocaust.

---

I find that highly unlikely considering the radical socialism that plagued Europe at the time, especially with Stalinism being such a focal point later in time

Remember that the Sparticist Rebellions happened by themselves, Hitler wasn't involved whatsoever. Violent and Radical far left-wing coup attempts and rebellions happened frequently in Germany (Sparticist Rebellion, Bavarian Commune), if without right-wing opposition and supported by the Soviets, they could've taken power

So socialism was very popular at the time, and the Weimar Republic held elections, but without Hitler what would actually have happened is that a violent socialist rebellion would have thrown down the democratic government and joined the USSR.

That doesn't sound terribly plausible.

I’m not saying would’ve, I’m saying could’ve

Besides, that whole argument was based off some guy saying that all you needed to do was kill every single Nazi

In realism, if Hitler never existed or died, another popular figure would’ve taken his place

Really it depends on the time

All I’m saying that it’s far more likely a radical socialist or far left wing movement would’ve won out compared to a mild social democratic government

The whole Weimar Republic was a shit show of a government, it was too new and had too many problems, unless they reorganised themselves or got help, it was imminent for them to be taken over by some sort of government

Thing is the big thing on every Germans mind was Revanchism, revenge for Germany’s loss and oppression by the Allies after ww1, you talk about bringing Germany back to former glory and all that, you got itself a lot of support. The thing is I just don’t see social democrats doing thst

[The New California Republic]

Um...you do know that major businesses in Germany were complicit with the crimes of the Nazis, right? The likes of IG Farben, Focke-Wulf, Porsche, Siemens? Ring a bell now?

Ya but most of those businessmen probably either escaped West or were already employed by the Soviets

...where the hell are you getting this vague and weird information from...? I smell a deflection.

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

Ya but most of those businessmen probably either escaped West or were already employed by the Soviets

...where the hell are you getting this vague and weird information from...? I smell a deflection.

Think about it, why would Nazi collaborators stay in Soviet controlled territory? It’s far more likely they would’ve fled West

I mean exactly how many businessmen, scientists, officials and officers who were former Nazis remained in the Iron Block? Those that collaborated with the Soviets and those in prison don’t count