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Would you kill Hitler?

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Would you kill Hitler after considering all the potential ramifications?

Yes
22
23%
No
73
77%
 
Total votes : 95

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Engleberg
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Founded: Apr 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Engleberg » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Engleberg wrote:Either preventing the Great War or helping Germany win WWI would prove more beneficial, and has better results.

I fail to see how helping Germany win WW1 is beneficial, considering that France would cease to exist as a result...


You make that sound like it’s a bad thing
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The New California Republic
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Posts: 19170
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:12 am

Hammer Britannia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:I fail to see how helping Germany win WW1 is beneficial, considering that France would cease to exist as a result...

And that's a bad thing?

:lol2:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Heloin
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8014
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:15 am

Go back kill Hitler. If things are good, then I did good. If things are bad then go back and kill replacement Hitler. Repeat until world's good.
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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7757
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caracasus » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:16 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Love how everyone just assumes we're living in the best universe where Hitler's rise to power worked out for the best in the end. I mean, yeah it's possible that things would have been worse if that hadn't happened but equally it's possible that things might have been resolved without a bloody world war and the mass slaughter that came with it.


A world war was going to happen no matter what unless we also remove Japan and the Soviets from the equation. Which would fuck things up even more.


Okay, war was certainly on the cards I'll admit, but I'm not 100% sure we're living in the universe which had the best possible outcome of that buildup to war.
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Hrythingia
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Posts: 747
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hrythingia » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:18 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:And that's a bad thing?

:lol2:

You see the anglosphere could hope for little more than the obliteration of the froggy surrender monkeys. No genuine animosity to anyone here unfortunate enough to have been born French though, I wish them all the best.
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The Blaatschapen
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Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:18 am

Hrythingia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote: :lol2:

You see the anglosphere could hope for little more than the obliteration of the froggy surrender monkeys. No genuine animosity to anyone here unfortunate enough to have been born French though, I wish them all the best.


World War I is a few centuries too late though, for the anglosphere to really profit from it.
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Tokora
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Posts: 688
Founded: Oct 08, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tokora » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:22 am

My view is simple, if you can do something to change history for the better, than for the love of all that's holy do so. While I'd rather buy a painting from him and tell him to stick with that, I would kill him (even as an infant) if I had to.

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Nazis in Space
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Posts: 11629
Founded: Aug 24, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nazis in Space » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:23 am

I'm admittedly not especially fond of suicide.

Also, I sincerely hope to never meet some fifteen percent of this forum's residents.
Last edited by Nazis in Space on Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Blaatschapen
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Posts: 54068
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:24 am

Nazis in Space wrote:I'm admittedly not especially fond of suicide.


Then why did you do so back in 1945?
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Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain
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Oil exporting People
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Posts: 8281
Founded: Jan 31, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Oil exporting People » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:43 am

Kill him in 1934. Hindenburg was already threatening to call out the Reichswehr if the NSDAP didn't purge Rohm and his ilk, meaning that the suddenly leaderless Nazis find themselves unable to follow through on that and Hindenburg would consider the chaos sufficient reason to call out the German Army; it was still totally loyal to him and staffed by conservative officers. Long run effects is the restoration of the Kaiser under Wilhelm III I'd imagine, and probably some conflict with Poland to restore the old Eastern borders; no WWII as we know, however, far more likely for a crusade against Bolshevism.
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Potato
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 481
Founded: Mar 10, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Potato » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:44 am

Riakou wrote:We as humans generally for the most part, I would say are rational beings with an aversion to homicide

this is a joke, right
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Nazis in Space
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Founded: Aug 24, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nazis in Space » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:44 am

The blAAtschApen wrote:
Nazis in Space wrote:I'm admittedly not especially fond of suicide.


Then why did you do so back in 1945?

I got better.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 41683
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:46 am

Oil exporting People wrote:Kill him in 1934. Hindenburg was already threatening to call out the Reichswehr if the NSDAP didn't purge Rohm and his ilk, meaning that the suddenly leaderless Nazis find themselves unable to follow through on that and Hindenburg would consider the chaos sufficient reason to call out the German Army; it was still totally loyal to him and staffed by conservative officers. Long run effects is the restoration of the Kaiser under Wilhelm III I'd imagine, and probably some conflict with Poland to restore the old Eastern borders; no WWII as we know, however, far more likely for a crusade against Bolshevism.


>monarchy

Please no, put Strasser in or something if you want a different path lol

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Baltenstein
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Posts: 10075
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:51 am

And let Stalin overrun Europe with Tesla Troopers and Mammoth Tanks?

Nah.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

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Riakou
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Posts: 288
Founded: Aug 10, 2009
Libertarian Police State

Postby Riakou » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:52 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Love how everyone just assumes we're living in the best universe where Hitler's rise to power worked out for the best in the end. I mean, yeah it's possible that things would have been worse if that hadn't happened but equally it's possible that things might have been resolved without a bloody world war and the mass slaughter that came with it.

I think people just prefer the known to the unknown, regardless of how shitty the known is. Making adjustments to the course of history post facto is conceptually one of the most dangerous things that humanity could ever do.


I would entirely agree, anyone who ever thinks meddling in past events is wise, are delusional, this isn’t about getting the best possible result, it’s about not essentially erasing from existence everything that’s ever happened.

It’s theoretically speaking far more dangerous than any meteor or global disaster event, not only does it undo past history but creates ramifications that not only effect the history on earth but in the universe and that effect ripples outwards for the rest of the existence of time.

Also as previously stated you are essentially removing from existence probably almost everyone in alive today with a complete new set of humans, is that not in itself a genocide? I personally would say so.
Last edited by Riakou on Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kannap
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Founded: May 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kannap » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:59 am

I believe taking another's life is horribly wrong and even oppose the death penalty, so I doubt I'd be taking anybody's life, even if it is Hitler.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:05 am

Baltenstein wrote:And let Stalin overrun Europe with Tesla Troopers and Mammoth Tanks?

Nah.

The fact that weaponized Tesla coils would exist almost makes me want to do it. Almost.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Valrifell
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Posts: 21993
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valrifell » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:11 am

Baltenstein wrote:And let Stalin overrun Europe with Tesla Troopers and Mammoth Tanks?

Nah.


Stalin's Great Purge would've still left Soviet leadership crippled and without a war already having left Europe destroyed, you could see an allied intervention in the Soviet Union at some point.
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Baltenstein
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Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:18 am

Valrifell wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:And let Stalin overrun Europe with Tesla Troopers and Mammoth Tanks?

Nah.


Stalin's Great Purge would've still left Soviet leadership crippled and without a war already having left Europe destroyed, you could see an allied intervention in the Soviet Union at some point.


You're right, the Allies would have invaded Russia and taken Moscow eventually...but only after the Soviets had pushed as far as Paris, committed atrocities in Greece, and almost succeeded in nuking London.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

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Dogmeat
Minister
 
Posts: 2308
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:24 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Engleberg wrote:Either preventing the Great War or helping Germany win WWI would prove more beneficial, and has better results.

I fail to see how helping Germany win WW1 is beneficial, considering that France would cease to exist as a result...

Would it? Germany might have taken some colonies away, but annex France? No reason to think that would happen. They didn't even do that in WWII, when they were all annexation-happy.
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The New California Republic
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Posts: 19170
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:34 am

Riakou wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:I think people just prefer the known to the unknown, regardless of how shitty the known is. Making adjustments to the course of history post facto is conceptually one of the most dangerous things that humanity could ever do.


I would entirely agree, anyone who ever thinks meddling in past events is wise, are delusional, this isn’t about getting the best possible result, it’s about not essentially erasing from existence everything that’s ever happened.

It’s theoretically speaking far more dangerous than any meteor or global disaster event, not only does it undo past history but creates ramifications that not only effect the history on earth but in the universe and that effect ripples outwards for the rest of the existence of time.

Also as previously stated you are essentially removing from existence probably almost everyone in alive today with a complete new set of humans, is that not in itself a genocide? I personally would say so.

If backwards time travel was ever discovered, there would be an immediate ban on its use, because the temptation to misuse it would be much too great, and sending anything back in time (even if it wasn't a person) would disrupt history in some way or another.



Dogmeat wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:I fail to see how helping Germany win WW1 is beneficial, considering that France would cease to exist as a result...

Would it? Germany might have taken some colonies away, but annex France? No reason to think that would happen. They didn't even do that in WWII, when they were all annexation-happy.

At the very least they would have turned it into a completely subjugated vassal state that bore little to no relation to the Third Republic, similar to Vichy France in its pandering to the conquerors.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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The Black Forrest
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:48 am

Can't. It's a fixed point in time.
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:53 am

Nazis in Space wrote:I'm admittedly not especially fond of suicide.

Also, I sincerely hope to never meet some fifteen percent of this forum's residents.

Dont sweat it. It's too late now anyway. Just a word of advice though. If we ever invent time travel.... run.
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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valrifell » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:21 pm

I'd like to see what would happen, honestly. Mr. Hitler was one of those men of history, similar in vein to Napoleon or Augustus Caesar (but, you know, in the absolutely worst way possible) so seeing how history would progress without his influence would be an interesting thought experiment.

And one that I would get to see unfold in this scenario!
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Bienenhalde
Senator
 
Posts: 3770
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:38 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Engleberg wrote:Either preventing the Great War or helping Germany win WWI would prove more beneficial, and has better results.

I fail to see how helping Germany win WW1 is beneficial, considering that France would cease to exist as a result...


I doubt that France would cease to exist. Maybe the Germans would install a puppet regime, but the idea that they would somehow cease to exist would be completely implausible. Besides, perhaps if the Germans had defeated the French Republic they could have restored the House of Bourbon.
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