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Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

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Deus Malum
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Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:14 am

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that a school's strip search of an Arizona teenage girl accused of having prescription-strength ibuprofen was illegal.

In an 8-1 ruling, the justices said school officials violated the law with their search of Savana Redding in the rural eastern Arizona town of Safford.

Redding, who now attends college, was 13 when officials at Safford Middle School ordered her to remove her clothes and shake out her underwear because they were looking for pills — the equivalent of two Advils. The district bans prescription and over-the-counter drugs and the school was acting on a tip from another student.

"What was missing from the suspected facts that pointed to Savana was any indication of danger to the students from the power of the drugs or their quantity, and any reason to suppose that Savana was carrying pills in her underwear," Justice David Souter wrote in the majority opinion. "We think that the combination of these deficiencies was fatal to finding the search reasonable."

In a dissent, Justice Clarence Thomas found the search legal and said the court previously had given school officials "considerable leeway" under the Fourth Amendment in school settings.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/ap_ ... RzYXlzc3Ry

Quick quibble from a non-lawyer: I thought the Supreme Court ruled things constitutional or unconstitutional, so that this action by the school district would be unconstitutional, not illegal (though I'd imagine there's obviously overlap in those two statements). Could someone correct me on this?

To the article: I think it's great news. I'm not at all surprised Clarence Thomas was the one dissenting opinion on the ruling, but other than that, I think it's great news.
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The_pantless_hero
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Justice Thomas supports massive invasion of rights

Postby The_pantless_hero » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:16 am

What else is new? But to be serious, the USSC has ruled on the case of Safford Unified School District v. April Redding where Redding was stripped search in the name of stopping the dissemination of advil to the student body. In an 8-1 decision, the Court ruled that the search was illegal. Thomas, ever the lone dissenter and ridiculous bastard, said that this sets some dangerous precedent so that no one can ever look in kid's underwear for drugs. Does anyone actually find that realistic? Of course people will hide contraband where it is least likely to be found, but is it wholly necessary to allow schools to strip search students in the name of finding an amount of 'contraband' so minute that it is entirely harmless, and for that matter legal to walk into any store in the nation and acquire regardless of age. No one is carding people to buy Advil.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/ap_ ... rip_search
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby The_pantless_hero » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:17 am

2 minutes. I hate you.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

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Deus Malum
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Re: Justice Thomas supports massive invasion of rights

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:17 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:What else is new? But to be serious, the USSC has ruled on the case of Safford Unified School District v. April Redding where Redding was stripped search in the name of stopping the dissemination of advil to the student body. In an 8-1 decision, the Court ruled that the search was illegal. Thomas, ever the lone dissenter and ridiculous bastard, said that this sets some dangerous precedent so that no one can ever look in kid's underwear for drugs. Does anyone actually find that realistic? Of course people will hide contraband where it is least likely to be found, but is it wholly necessary to allow schools to strip search students in the name of finding an amount of 'contraband' so minute that it is entirely harmless, and for that matter legal to walk into any store in the nation and acquire regardless of age. No one is carding people to buy Advil.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/ap_ ... rip_search

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Neo Art
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:17 am

Deus Malum wrote:Quick quibble from a non-lawyer: I thought the Supreme Court ruled things constitutional or unconstitutional, so that this action by the school district would be unconstitutional, not illegal (though I'd imagine there's obviously overlap in those two statements). Could someone correct me on this?

To the article: I think it's great news. I'm not at all surprised Clarence Thomas was the one dissenting opinion on the ruling, but other than that, I think it's great news.


Holy crap that's surprising. I had bad feelings about this case, and am VERY happy it was such a decisive opinion.

Additionally, the action is unconstitutional because it violated her 14th amendment rights. To violate ones 14th amendment rights is a crime, hence it's illegal.
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Re: Justice Thomas supports massive invasion of rights

Postby The_pantless_hero » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:17 am

Except I posted more than 2 sentences, thus it took me more than 10 seconds to post it. Ya bastard.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

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Deus Malum
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:18 am

Neo Art wrote:
Deus Malum wrote:Quick quibble from a non-lawyer: I thought the Supreme Court ruled things constitutional or unconstitutional, so that this action by the school district would be unconstitutional, not illegal (though I'd imagine there's obviously overlap in those two statements). Could someone correct me on this?

To the article: I think it's great news. I'm not at all surprised Clarence Thomas was the one dissenting opinion on the ruling, but other than that, I think it's great news.


Holy crap that's surprising. I had bad feelings about this case, and am VERY happy it was such a decisive opinion.

Additionally, the action is unconstitutional because it violated her 14th amendment rights. To violate ones 14th amendment rights is a crime, hence it's illegal.

Ah, ok. So it's both illegal AND unconstitutional. That makes sense.

And yeah, given the recent spate of rulings stripping rights incrementally from students, this is a good sign.
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Deus Malum
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:18 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:2 minutes. I hate you.

I know! I just posted in your thread to gloat. :p
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Deus Malum
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Re: Justice Thomas supports massive invasion of rights

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:19 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:Except I posted more than 2 sentences, thus it took me more than 10 seconds to post it. Ya bastard.

I had a feeling this was going to hit pretty quickly after I read it, so I tried to get it out quickly and figured if there was insufficient discussion I'd edit the OP and try and get things rolling. Just wanted to be the first. :D
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Chumblywumbly
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Chumblywumbly » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:20 am

Neo Art wrote:Additionally, the action is unconstitutional because it violated her 14th amendment rights. To violate ones 14th amendment rights is a crime, hence it's illegal.

So is it illegal to violate the constitution?
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Neo Art
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:22 am

Deus Malum wrote:Ah, ok. So it's both illegal AND unconstitutional. That makes sense.


Erm, not...ok, here's the thing. The constitution is law. Breaking the law is illegal. By definition then, when the government violates the constitution they are breaking the law, and thus acting illegally.

It's not "both illegal and unconstitutional". "illegal" means "in violation of the law". "unconstitutional" means "in violation of the constitution". Anything done unconstitutional is, by definition, illegal. "unconstitutional" is just, if you want to think in mathematical terms, a "subset" of illegal, in that it refers to the specific law being broken, namely, the constitution.
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:22 am

Wow. Clarence Thomas dissented. There's a big fuckin' surprise. :p
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:23 am

Chumblywumbly wrote:
Neo Art wrote:Additionally, the action is unconstitutional because it violated her 14th amendment rights. To violate ones 14th amendment rights is a crime, hence it's illegal.

So is it illegal to violate the constitution?


Again, I think you might be using the term "illegal" to suggest perhaps something you could be arrested for. Technically, as a legal term, "illegal" only means "in violation of the law". The Constitution is law. To violate the constitution is to be in violation of the law. So yes, it's illegal to violate the constitution, by definition, as the constitution is law, and violation of the law is what "illegal" means
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby The_pantless_hero » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:23 am

Justice Thomas supports massive invasion of rights. What else is new? But to be serious, the USSC has ruled on the case of Safford Unified School District v. April Redding where Redding was stripped search in the name of stopping the dissemination of advil to the student body. In an 8-1 decision, the Court ruled that the search was illegal. Thomas, ever the lone dissenter and ridiculous bastard, said that this sets some dangerous precedent so that no one can ever look in kid's underwear for drugs. Does anyone actually find that realistic? Of course people will hide contraband where it is least likely to be found, but is it wholly necessary to allow schools to strip search students in the name of finding an amount of 'contraband' so minute that it is entirely harmless, and for that matter legal to walk into any store in the nation and acquire regardless of age. No one is carding people to buy Advil.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

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Neo Art
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:24 am

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Wow. Clarence Thomas dissented. There's a big fuckin' surprise. :p


No, what's surprising is that Thomas dissented but Scalia did not. Looks like somebody is growing some balls.

Balls of pure, unmitigated evil, but balls none the less.
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby The_pantless_hero » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:25 am

Neo Art wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Wow. Clarence Thomas dissented. There's a big fuckin' surprise. :p


No, what's surprising is that Thomas dissented but Scalia did not. Looks like somebody is growing some balls.

Balls of pure, unmitigated evil, but balls none the less.

Uh not really. This actually happens occasionally where it is completely irrational for anyone to make a dissent. At those times, Thomas dissents. I would think you of all people would have seen this pattern if I had. Scalia hates your rights because he is an asshole. Thomas hates your rights because he is crazy and thinks the Constitution doesn't let you have them.
Last edited by The_pantless_hero on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

Doing what we must because we can

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Poliwanacraca
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Poliwanacraca » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:27 am

:?
Neo Art wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Wow. Clarence Thomas dissented. There's a big fuckin' surprise. :p


No, what's surprising is that Thomas dissented but Scalia did not. Looks like somebody is growing some balls.

Balls of pure, unmitigated evil, but balls none the less.


I think Scalia is just starting to mellow out a little with age, while Thomas is still filled with frothing conservative raaaaaaaage at everything, including 13-year-old girls.

Anyway, I'm really happy about this decision. Definitely the right one as far as I'm concerned.
"You know...I've just realized that "Poliwanacraca" is, when rendered in Arabic, an anagram for "Bom-chica-wohw-waaaow", the famous "sexy riff" that was born in the 70's and will live forever..." - Hammurab
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Chumblywumbly
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Chumblywumbly » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:28 am

Neo Art wrote:Again, I think you might be using the term "illegal" to suggest perhaps something you could be arrested for. Technically, as a legal term, "illegal" only means "in violation of the law". The Constitution is law. To violate the constitution is to be in violation of the law. So yes, it's illegal to violate the constitution, by definition, as the constitution is law, and violation of the law is what "illegal" means

Thank you, Ms. McBeal.

*runs*
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:28 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Wow. Clarence Thomas dissented. There's a big fuckin' surprise. :p


No, what's surprising is that Thomas dissented but Scalia did not. Looks like somebody is growing some balls.

Balls of pure, unmitigated evil, but balls none the less.

Uh not really. This actually happens occasionally where it is completely irrational for anyone to make a dissent. At those times, Thomas dissents. I would think you of all people would have seen this pattern if I had. Scalia hates your rights because he is an asshole. Thomas hates your rights because he is crazy and thinks the Constitution doesn't let you have them.


Thomas dissents in times of pure irrationality, this is true, but is typically joined at the hip by BFF Antonin Scalia. And at times where they have been the lone dissenters, it is typically Scalia who has written the opinion. It's not terribly common for Thomas and Scalia to disagree. To the point where some scholars have wondered if Thomas usually just takes his cues from Scalia.
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Deus Malum
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:28 am

Neo Art wrote:
Deus Malum wrote:Ah, ok. So it's both illegal AND unconstitutional. That makes sense.


Erm, not...ok, here's the thing. The constitution is law. Breaking the law is illegal. By definition then, when the government violates the constitution they are breaking the law, and thus acting illegally.

It's not "both illegal and unconstitutional". "illegal" means "in violation of the law". "unconstitutional" means "in violation of the constitution". Anything done unconstitutional is, by definition, illegal. "unconstitutional" is just, if you want to think in mathematical terms, a "subset" of illegal, in that it refers to the specific law being broken, namely, the constitution.

That makes sense.

...is it scary it took couching it in terms of a mathematical set for me to get it?
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Neo Art
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:29 am

Chumblywumbly wrote:
Neo Art wrote:Again, I think you might be using the term "illegal" to suggest perhaps something you could be arrested for. Technically, as a legal term, "illegal" only means "in violation of the law". The Constitution is law. To violate the constitution is to be in violation of the law. So yes, it's illegal to violate the constitution, by definition, as the constitution is law, and violation of the law is what "illegal" means

Thank you, Ms. McBeal.

*runs*


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The_pantless_hero
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby The_pantless_hero » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:31 am

Neo Art wrote:
The_pantless_hero wrote:Uh not really. This actually happens occasionally where it is completely irrational for anyone to make a dissent. At those times, Thomas dissents. I would think you of all people would have seen this pattern if I had. Scalia hates your rights because he is an asshole. Thomas hates your rights because he is crazy and thinks the Constitution doesn't let you have them.


Thomas dissents in times of pure irrationality, this is true, but is typically joined at the hip by BFF Antonin Scalia. And at times where they have been the lone dissenters, it is typically Scalia who has written the opinion. It's not terribly common for Thomas and Scalia to disagree. To the point where some scholars have wondered if Thomas usually just takes his cues from Scalia.

I have seen at least one or two other cases exactly like this where it is 8-1 where Thomas goes "I hate you guys and screw your rights." And multiple times I have seen Thomas write a separate dissent saying the dissent by the other neocon members of the court wasn't hardcore enough
Last edited by The_pantless_hero on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

Doing what we must because we can

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Neo Art
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Neo Art » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:31 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:I have seen at least one or two other cases exactly like this where it is 8-1 where Thomas goes "I hate you guys and screw your rights." And multiple times I have seen Thomas write a separate dissent saying the dissent by the other neocon members of the court wasn't hardcore enough


Yah, those are the truly scary moments.
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:32 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Wow. Clarence Thomas dissented. There's a big fuckin' surprise. :p


No, what's surprising is that Thomas dissented but Scalia did not. Looks like somebody is growing some balls.

Balls of pure, unmitigated evil, but balls none the less.

Uh not really. This actually happens occasionally where it is completely irrational for anyone to make a dissent. At those times, Thomas dissents. I would think you of all people would have seen this pattern if I had. Scalia hates your rights because he is an asshole. Thomas hates your rights because he is crazy and thinks the Constitution doesn't let you have them.


As I was reading the OP, I was forming my response along the lines of 'I bet I know who the 1 in the 8-1 decision was. Then I saw it in the last line of the quote. When it's 8-1, It's pretty easy to figure out who the 1 is. Scalia might have an alarming and borderline sexual fetish for anything that increases government control over individuals or decreases government control over corporations, but even he won't completely ignore the Constitution. It takes a special kind of fucked up to do that.
Life's Short. Munch Tacos.

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
Hunter S. Thompson

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Poliwanacraca
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Re: Strip Search of High School Student Ruled Illegal

Postby Poliwanacraca » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:35 am

Chumblywumbly wrote:
Neo Art wrote:Again, I think you might be using the term "illegal" to suggest perhaps something you could be arrested for. Technically, as a legal term, "illegal" only means "in violation of the law". The Constitution is law. To violate the constitution is to be in violation of the law. So yes, it's illegal to violate the constitution, by definition, as the constitution is law, and violation of the law is what "illegal" means

Thank you, Ms. McBeal.

*runs*


No, no, no. NA totally is a David E. Kelley TV show lawyer, but that's the wrong one. :p
"You know...I've just realized that "Poliwanacraca" is, when rendered in Arabic, an anagram for "Bom-chica-wohw-waaaow", the famous "sexy riff" that was born in the 70's and will live forever..." - Hammurab
----
"Extortion is such a nasty word.
I much prefer 'magnolia'. 'Magnolia' is a much nicer word." - Saint Clair Island

----
"Go forth my snarky diaper babies, and CONQUER!" - Neo Art

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