How should we deal with North Korea?

[Autarkheia]

A few people escaped from Nazi concentration camps too. That doesn't mean the Holocaust didn't happen.

We should be skeptical that everything that's reported about North Korea is true, but blanket denials of North Korea's human rights abuses belong in the same category as the tankies who claim the Khmer Rouge did nothing wrong. It is a nightmarish country and comparing it to the present-day United States is laughable.

[Sefy the Great]

A few people escaped from Nazi concentration camps too. That doesn't mean the Holocaust didn't happen.

We should be skeptical that everything that's reported about North Korea is true, but blanket denials of North Korea's human rights abuses belong in the same category as the tankies who claim the Khmer Rouge did nothing wrong. It is a nightmarish country and comparing it to the present-day United States is laughable.

UNLESS you compare it in the amount of ego per leader, averaged. they've got about the same.

[Autarkheia]

UNLESS you compare it in the amount of ego per leader, averaged. they've got about the same.

They're also two thicc bois.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Pharaoh Shuffle

[Geneviev]

Panic. Stare at a map to find out how likely it is that North Korea will kill you. Then move North Korea away from everyone else.

Completely seriously, at this point, there's nothing anyone can do.

[Kowani]

Better idea. Loosen sanctions, but make it a prerequisite that the country has to denuclearize first. Then, when the average citizen weighs more than 60 pounds, and they can't blow us all up, strike teams. Take out the entire military elite and their cronies.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Better idea. Loosen sanctions, but make it a prerequisite that the country has to denuclearize first. Then, when the average citizen weighs more than 60 pounds, and they can't blow us all up, strike teams. Take out the entire military elite and their cronies.

This kinda shit is why they never will denuclearize. They'd be insane to actually give up their WMD's after what we did to Gadaffi.

[Kowani]

Better idea. Loosen sanctions, but make it a prerequisite that the country has to denuclearize first. Then, when the average citizen weighs more than 60 pounds, and they can't blow us all up, strike teams. Take out the entire military elite and their cronies.

This kinda shit is why they never will denuclearize. They'd be insane to actually give up their WMD's after what we did to Gadaffi.

Meh. You can't eat nukes.

[The Chuck]

As an I.R.L. Korean-American who was born in South Korea, I personally believe that Kim Jong-un will never willingly give up his nuclear stockpile. As mentioned before on this thread by countless people, the United States and our allies really did shoot ourselves in the metaphorical foot when Muammar Gaddafi agreed to give up his W.M.D. programs. What happened to Gaddafi now appears to North Korea as a very real and dangerous possibility of they ever agree to give up their W.M.D.s. Their weapons pose as the main bargaining chip that they possess with talks with the international community so who in their right mind would get rid of their only bargaining chip when they have two "hostile" nations to the south and east and two massive "friendly" nations that could turn on them at any moment (unlikely I know but still). While many people discuss North Korea's nuclear program which is something to be afraid of, one thing I rarely hear mentioned is North Korea's Biological and Chemical weapons and its artillery capabilities. North Korea possesses one of the largest assortments of conventional artillery pieces on earth. Many of these artillery guns are stationed in batteries along the DMZ in fortified bunkers or caves to avoid detection and elimination in the event of war. Although this is a contentious point open to speculation on both sides, many argue that North Korea is capable of hitting Seoul, the capital of South Korea, with artillery guns. Even if North Korea could only hit Seoul with a couple dozen shells, the damage could be catastrophic and lead to the deaths of potentially millions. How could a couple dozen artillery shells cause millions of deaths even if they collapses a few skyscrapers do you ask? Well for one, Seoul, not counting the regions around it, has a population of 9.7 million. Once you factor in the surrounding area you get around 25 million residents. North Korea could mount biological, radiological, or chemical warheads in their artillery. Biological and chemical warheads could contain mustard gas reminiscent of WW1 or something more modern and deadly such as anthrax spores. Radiological could be something much simpler such as putting yellow cake uranium or another hazardous radioactive material in a shell and slinging it over the border. Although, this would irradiate the crew serving the weapon too, since when has Kim Jong-un cared about his people? I believe that one step the international community could take to pursue peace on the Korean peninsula would be to pressure Xi-Jinping and the Chinese government to step in and curb North Korea's Chemical and Biological weapons departments while also convincing him to pursue more peace talks and to stick with his word.

I would write more and go in more detail about North Korea and how the international community could get Kim to peacefully open up but it's past 2 AM and this writer is tired. Sorry if some stuff wasn't coherent or if it didn't make much sense.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Live in your own universe if you want to.

Defectors also claimed Iraq had weapons, én masse reports too. We all know how true those were don´t we?

Bullshit example. Those are two different counties and two different groups of people. We're not going to war with NK, so there is really no reason for NK defectors to lie, also there are more NK defectors then the "defectors" from Iraq.

[Tokora]

In my opinion the Kim should be overthrown by the proletariat Russian style. Unfortunate due to their stalinist grip on power a repeat of 1917 is unlikely. However, due to the fact that the only future most North Koreans have is continued slavery an intervention at this point would be a mercy kill rather than a risk in my opinion and I feel no sympathy for today's China so any problems they get I can live with. But with Trump's praise for the regime (every right-wing dictator except Assad really) he's likely to do the opposite and prop them up.

[Hrythingia]

Nuke it.

[Autarkheia]

While many people discuss North Korea's nuclear program which is something to be afraid of, one thing I rarely hear mentioned is North Korea's Biological and Chemical weapons and its artillery capabilities. North Korea possesses one of the largest assortments of conventional artillery pieces on earth. Many of these artillery guns are stationed in batteries along the DMZ in fortified bunkers or caves to avoid detection and elimination in the event of war. Although this is a contentious point open to speculation on both sides, many argue that North Korea is capable of hitting Seoul, the capital of South Korea, with artillery guns. Even if North Korea could only hit Seoul with a couple dozen shells, the damage could be catastrophic and lead to the deaths of potentially millions. How could a couple dozen artillery shells cause millions of deaths even if they collapses a few skyscrapers do you ask? Well for one, Seoul, not counting the regions around it, has a population of 9.7 million.

This is a very good point and from what I've read, the real reason nobody has invaded NK before, not their nuclear program which is relatively recent. SK could defeat them in a conventional war with US backing, but the collateral damage would be unacceptably high. Seoul would get flattened.

But with Trump's praise for the regime (every right-wing dictator except Assad really) he's likely to do the opposite and prop them up.

While I agree, I wouldn't exactly call NK right-wing. If anything they're more like NazBol at this point.

As for the government of NK being overthrown by the people, the problem is they're weak and starving and don't have weapons, but it could happen. There have been uprisings in their prison camps, but they ended in massacres.

[Ryukyu]

Nuke it.

why?..

[Rio Cana]

Economically speaking, NK. is not a threat to the US. But China is another story. A US-NK. alliance, which includes a US base, would throw the Chinese off balance. Plus the US would get access to all of NK's rare minerals. Of course, the Russians probably would not like any of this. And remember, Koreans do not tend to trust China. It's an historical thing.

Map shows NK. strategic location - https://images.theconversation.com/file ... 00&fit=cli

[DARGLED]

Lift the sanctions, reimplement the nuclear deal and beside that, leave them be.

[Vallermoore]

Why not drop huge numbers of North Korean won (their money) over the country, making their money worthless within their own country? If they then had to use foreign money, we could then have some control over their leaders.

[Novus America]

Lift the sanctions, reimplement the nuclear deal and beside that, leave them be.

Why lift sanctions? Absolutely not until they come back into compliance with the NPT.
Sanctions only get lifted if they give something in return.

[Hatterleigh]

Just ignore them. We don't know what's going on over there, perhaps it's a paradise and the media/US gov't has brainwashed us for obvious reasons

[Ryukyu]

Why not drop huge numbers of North Korean won (their money) over the country, making their money worthless within their own country? If they then had to use foreign money, we could then have some control over their leaders.

North Koreans already prefer to use USD and renminbi in transactions rather than NK won

[Balkandia]

With diplomacy and trying to encourage internal reform and opening up to global trade. Use a carrot and stick approach. Avoid collapse at all costs, because that would be even more of a nightmare. Basically, glasnost', but handled better.

Generally this. I think NK can be pressured into cooperation. There will be some saber-rattling on their end, but this is probably for Kim to save face in his country while giving up nuclear arms and opening his economy. Of course,they are sill a brutal dictatorship with a large military, hence caution should be exercise and a sizable US and South Korean military presence on the borders should be maintained.

Kim Jong Un ultimately cares only about the maintenance of his brutal regime. As far as we know he is only willing to negotiate his military with the United Nations and even this is uncertain; many believe he is lying about changing his nuclear weapons programme. For the foreseeable future, the odds of him negotiating his regime are extremely far-fetched. Perhaps, if Kim and his biggest 'advisors' were assassinated, an advantage could be taken of a destabilised government (not that it isn't unstable already but you know what I mean), and bigger co-operations could happen, or the UN could influence the selecting of NK's next leader and make them a puppet for the UN.

[DARGLED]

Lift the sanctions, reimplement the nuclear deal and beside that, leave them be.

Why lift sanctions? Absolutely not until they come back into compliance with the NPT.
Sanctions only get lifted if they give something in return.

They were compliant. Trump unilaterally pulled the US out of the deal and they remained compliant. They have remained compliant until recently. They are no longer complaint because they are being sanctioned.

[Country of CityTowne]

...But anyway NSG how should we deal with the North Korean regime?

If we knew we'd either be taken away by men in dark suits or we'd've done it already.


In my opinion, the best way? Just leave them. If they start something with a country unprovoked then the rest of the world'd get quite upset over it. Don't trade anything with them, don't export, don't meet with them, don't get played as a fool by them. When that inevitably fails because America's like that, the rest of us'll just throw a party.

Obviously there's quite a couple major flaws also known as death, WW3, and nuclear apocalypse but who hasn't expected that all to happen at some time in the past decade or so?