Riots in France over fuel tax rises

[Balnik]

Ocean acidification killing all the phytoplankton and strangling our oxygen supply, all caused by the pollution created by Capitalist businesses you so lovingly support.

Cool. Instead of dying from capitalist businesses we can die from commie businesses.

Starvation or asphyxiation. Pick your poison.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Cool. Instead of dying from capitalist businesses we can die from commie businesses.

Starvation or asphyxiation. Pick your poison.

How about I don't pick neither, coup the government and form my very own AuthSocDem gang?

No more starvation, no more exploitation!

[Balnik]

Starvation or asphyxiation. Pick your poison.

How about I don't pick neither, coup the government and form my very own AuthSocDem gang?

No more starvation, no more exploitation!

Fuck functional societies.

This post was made by AuthSocDem Gang

[Phoenicaea]

^ @Olerand, @Baltenstein, pardon me if again i instist about this question, besides, i won t do an other time. you could at least give pregoratives to parliament.

as Toqueville describes, parliament authority is not a path to either federalism or tribes, perhaps the opposite. were De Gaulle nominees privileges less than the actual president.

about the federalist mess with regions and departments, it may be rather a consequence of the president's 'overbooking'. why then should stronger parliament be less jacobin.

i see you can t assume a country as an other, nevertheless the flawed 'federalism' in italy has been so heavy that i wonder about it. a pyramidal government encourages local satrapies.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

How about I don't pick neither, coup the government and form my very own AuthSocDem gang?

No more starvation, no more exploitation!

Fuck functional societies.

This post was made by AuthSocDem Gang

"cOmMuNiSm Is EnViRoNmEnTaLlY fRiEnDlY!!!11!"

*looks at Aral Sea*

Yeah, sorry, but considering that both communism and capitalism has its fatal flaws, I'm naturally more inclined to believe in a far more balanced solution.

[Olerand]

^ @Olerand, @Baltenstein, pardon me if again i instist about this question, besides, i won t do an other time. you could at least give pregoratives to parliament.

as Toqueville describes, parliament authority is not a path either to federalism or tribes, perhaps the opposite. were De Gaulle nominees privileges less than the actual president.

about the federalist mess with regions and demartments, it may be rather a consequence of the presidents overbooking. why then should stronger parliament be less jacobin.

i see you can t assume a country as an other, nevertheless the flawed 'federalism' in italy has been so heavy that i wonder about it. a pyramidal government encourages local satrapies.

Parliament has authority. It can have more, but there is little desire for that actually. People nowadays are more likely to support measures that weaken parliament, like cutting the number of parliamentarians or imposing limits on them and their abilities.

And de Tocqueville is honeslty not that popular in France.

[Balnik]

(Image)

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit son!

What I don't understand is when antifa does this we're told they're violent ne'er-do-wells that have to be denounced by all, yellow vests protest in a similar way they're good French bois fighting for freedom.

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

[Phoenicaea]

^ @Olerand, i see, nevertheless, we can agree above this, give it more part of authority, i suggest, in spite of monocratic president. it is bare parliaments which tend to ruin.

i say it as a 'clue' thing i may notice, i don t assume it as whole. merci the reference about the 'grand soir', i will study it. a pity de Toqueville not being read, great wit and statist.

[Olerand]

^ @Olerand, i see, nevertheless, we can agree above this, give it more part of authority, i suggest, in spite of monocratic president. it is bare parliaments which tend to ruin.

i say it as a 'clue' thing i may notice, i don t assume it as whole. merci the reference about the 'grand soir', i will study it. a pity de Toqueville not being read, great wit and statist.

Sure, no problem.

I'm perfectly satisfied with de Tocqueville's place. No good can come for France from his ideology.

[Painisia]

Hmm, a Russian politician gave his solution to this a long time ago!

https://youtu.be/hsLBDF-cqnQ?t=63

[Olerand]

Hmm, a Russian politician gave his solution to this a long time ago!

https://youtu.be/hsLBDF-cqnQ?t=63

I can support this.

[Painisia]

It seems Jean Lassalle knew about the deep problems 5 years ago.

https://www.france24.com/en/20131213-fr ... ure-racism

[Olerand]

It seems Jean Lassalle knew about the deep problems 5 years ago.

https://www.france24.com/en/20131213-fr ... ure-racism

Jean Lassalle... Yeah... Anyway...

Macron finished his speech. He has declared the "social and economic state of urgency in France", and he has promised that the CSG (social tax) that was supposed to rise on pensions won't on those receiving less than 2000 euros a month; overtime pay will also be exempt from social and regular taxation; the income of those on minimum wage will rise by 100 euros a month starting in 2019, surely not through an actual rise of the minimum wage as such, but as a decrease in taxes. These measures are assuredly going to blow France past the 3% deficit rule, except if they are coupled with cuts, which would make them mute; and he has said he is not going back on the wealth tax dismemberment or the announced reforms.

So... I don't know what could come out of this, other than almost direct conflict with Brussels.

He has also called on companies to give out end of the year bonuses, and has said he will meet with major corporations in the coming week to see how they can contribute. He also wants a nationwide consultation, particularly with mayors, the smallest of France's elected figures.

[Bienenhalde]

Not federal, France has never been federal. But as the poster suggested, with more authority to towns and regions and whatever. People are so disenchanted with the current status quo that they will claim to want this, but when the inhabitants of Centre-Val de Loire realize that the flow of cash and influence from Paris has dried up, there'll be a revolution for a new jacobin order very soon.

... We're not going to do that. So... See you during the next crisis.

Wasn't France federal under the Ancien Regime?

[Olerand]

Not federal, France has never been federal. But as the poster suggested, with more authority to towns and regions and whatever. People are so disenchanted with the current status quo that they will claim to want this, but when the inhabitants of Centre-Val de Loire realize that the flow of cash and influence from Paris has dried up, there'll be a revolution for a new jacobin order very soon.

... We're not going to do that. So... See you during the next crisis.

Wasn't France federal under the Ancien Regime?

No, the King was the sole authority in all the provinces, even if they had their own parlements. As in, different provinces could not themselves establish different laws, the King would do so in the provinces.

The only time one could claim that France was federal was under feudalism, prior to Louis XIV, prior to the Renaissance, prior to centralization. But even then, technically, Paris' authority was the only legal power in the country.

[Kannap]

Finally saw a thread of pictures from the riots on Twitter, particularly some of the graffiti on walls and such, and I must admit, the things I have seen have been beautiful. Nice to see the people making their voices heard.

[Trumptonium1]

Wonder why no one responded with Macron's televised address ... but...

Macron conceded. Quite a bit. I don't know if it's normal for France, but this is certainly a lot for any Western government not used to riots.

With immediate effect:

• A rise of 100 euros a month to the minimum wage to 1500 euros - or 22 000 USD a year ($12 an hour) -- funded fully by the government via reduction in employer payroll taxes
• Stopping the taxation of Christmas/New Year bonuses received by employees
• Taxes on overtime income will be completely abolished for full-time workers
• Fuel tax and pension income tax rises canceled
• Vague commitment to crack down on tax fraud, evasion and avoidance

Curiously no help for businesses affected directly (riots) or indirectly (loss of income) by the protests. Parisian restaurants are losing up to half of their monthly incomes according to the small business federation, and crucial Christmas sales are down at least 1.1 billion on last year. The Finance Minister said that the protests will irreversibly damage the French economy by at least -0.1% of GDP now.

[Olerand]

Wonder why no one responded with Macron's televised address ... but...

Macron conceded. Quite a bit. I don't know if it's normal for France, but this is certainly a lot for any Western government not used to riots.

With immediate effect:

• A rise of 100 euros a month to the minimum wage to 1500 euros - or 22 000 USD a year ($12 an hour) -- funded fully by the government via reduction in employer payroll taxes
• Stopping the taxation of Christmas/New Year bonuses received by employees
• Taxes on overtime income will be completely abolished for full-time workers
• Fuel tax and pension income tax rises canceled
• Vague commitment to crack down on tax fraud, evasion and avoidance

Curiously no help for businesses affected directly (riots) or indirectly (loss of income) by the protests. Parisian restaurants are losing up to half of their monthly incomes according to the small business federation, and crucial Christmas sales are down at least 1.1 billion on last year. The Finance Minister said that the protests will irreversibly damage the French economy by at least -0.1% of GDP now.

Uhm... I did:

It seems Jean Lassalle knew about the deep problems 5 years ago.

https://www.france24.com/en/20131213-fr ... ure-racism

Jean Lassalle... Yeah... Anyway...

Macron finished his speech. He has declared the "social and economic state of urgency in France", and he has promised that the CSG (social tax) that was supposed to rise on pensions won't on those receiving less than 2000 euros a month; overtime pay will also be exempt from social and regular taxation; the income of those on minimum wage will rise by 100 euros a month starting in 2019, surely not through an actual rise of the minimum wage as such, but as a decrease in taxes. These measures are assuredly going to blow France past the 3% deficit rule, except if they are coupled with cuts, which would make them mute; and he has said he is not going back on the wealth tax dismemberment or the announced reforms.

So... I don't know what could come out of this, other than almost direct conflict with Brussels.

He has also called on companies to give out end of the year bonuses, and has said he will meet with major corporations in the coming week to see how they can contribute. He also wants a nationwide consultation, particularly with mayors, the smallest of France's elected figures.

Measures to help out those affected by the riots are left to the government and the relevant ministers to figure out. Macron's speech was to the gilets jaunes, who aren't too concerned with this.

[Trumptonium1]

It .. pays .. to complain? Maybe.

But I wonder if this means anything to most people however. Most people are not on the minimum wage, and don't really want to work overtime and think they're entitled to a good standard of living under current working hours. Most don't receive a bonus in the private market and are relatively unaffected by vague promises on tax avoidance.

So ... not really getting anything positive out of Macron's speech, which appeared to be aimed at the lowest class people in society.

[Trumptonium1]

Wonder why no one responded with Macron's televised address ... but...

Macron conceded. Quite a bit. I don't know if it's normal for France, but this is certainly a lot for any Western government not used to riots.

With immediate effect:

• A rise of 100 euros a month to the minimum wage to 1500 euros - or 22 000 USD a year ($12 an hour) -- funded fully by the government via reduction in employer payroll taxes
• Stopping the taxation of Christmas/New Year bonuses received by employees
• Taxes on overtime income will be completely abolished for full-time workers
• Fuel tax and pension income tax rises canceled
• Vague commitment to crack down on tax fraud, evasion and avoidance

Curiously no help for businesses affected directly (riots) or indirectly (loss of income) by the protests. Parisian restaurants are losing up to half of their monthly incomes according to the small business federation, and crucial Christmas sales are down at least 1.1 billion on last year. The Finance Minister said that the protests will irreversibly damage the French economy by at least -0.1% of GDP now.

Uhm... I did:

Jean Lassalle... Yeah... Anyway...

Macron finished his speech. He has declared the "social and economic state of urgency in France", and he has promised that the CSG (social tax) that was supposed to rise on pensions won't on those receiving less than 2000 euros a month; overtime pay will also be exempt from social and regular taxation; the income of those on minimum wage will rise by 100 euros a month starting in 2019, surely not through an actual rise of the minimum wage as such, but as a decrease in taxes. These measures are assuredly going to blow France past the 3% deficit rule, except if they are coupled with cuts, which would make them mute; and he has said he is not going back on the wealth tax dismemberment or the announced reforms.

So... I don't know what could come out of this, other than almost direct conflict with Brussels.

He has also called on companies to give out end of the year bonuses, and has said he will meet with major corporations in the coming week to see how they can contribute. He also wants a nationwide consultation, particularly with mayors, the smallest of France's elected figures.

Measures to help out those affected by the riots are left to the government and the relevant ministers to figure out. Macron's speech was to the gillets jaunes, who aren't too concerned with this.

Looks like I had the thread open too long and not refreshed.

[Olerand]

It .. pays .. to complain? Maybe.

But I wonder if this means anything to most people however. Most people are not on the minimum wage, and don't really want to work overtime and think they're entitled to a good standard of living under current working hours. Most don't receive a bonus in the private market and are relatively unaffected by vague promises on tax avoidance.

So ... not really getting anything positive out of Macron's speech, which appeared to be aimed at the lowest class people in society.

The right said the same as the first part of your sentence. They've called it the smicardisation (minimum-wage-ation) of society. The left attakced the second part of your statement, the promises are vague, the wealth tax is still gone, etc.

Only LRM and its MoDem ally had good things to say. But considering that the gilets jaunes, and the greater population, weren't really listening to the parties anyway, I don't see how important their opinions are really. Polls will show if this had an effect on people, and next Saturday will show if it had any effects on the gilets jaunes.

[Quency]

Finally saw a thread of pictures from the riots on Twitter, particularly some of the graffiti on walls and such, and I must admit, the things I have seen have been beautiful. Nice to see the people making their voices heard.

Yup, lighting cars on fire and vandalising stores is just beautiful.

[Olerand]

Finally saw a thread of pictures from the riots on Twitter, particularly some of the graffiti on walls and such, and I must admit, the things I have seen have been beautiful. Nice to see the people making their voices heard.

Yup, lighting cars on fire and vandalising stores is just beautiful.

In a way.

[Quency]

Yup, lighting cars on fire and vandalising stores is just beautiful.

In a way.

To a criminal, perhaps.

[Chessmistress]

It seems Jean Lassalle knew about the deep problems 5 years ago.

https://www.france24.com/en/20131213-fr ... ure-racism

Jean Lassalle... Yeah... Anyway...

Macron finished his speech. He has declared the "social and economic state of urgency in France", and he has promised that the CSG (social tax) that was supposed to rise on pensions won't on those receiving less than 2000 euros a month; overtime pay will also be exempt from social and regular taxation; the income of those on minimum wage will rise by 100 euros a month starting in 2019, surely not through an actual rise of the minimum wage as such, but as a decrease in taxes. These measures are assuredly going to blow France past the 3% deficit rule, except if they are coupled with cuts, which would make them mute; and he has said he is not going back on the wealth tax dismemberment or the announced reforms.

So... I don't know what could come out of this, other than almost direct conflict with Brussels.

He has also called on companies to give out end of the year bonuses, and has said he will meet with major corporations in the coming week to see how they can contribute. He also wants a nationwide consultation, particularly with mayors, the smallest of France's elected figures.

Macron is finished, that's what is coming out of this: the more he'll concede, the more the people will understand his scam.
I warned against both Macron and Le Pen at elections times, saying that none was good for France and the difference between the two was relatively little (though Le Pen is worse).