NationStates

Novus America wrote:

Novus Wrepland wrote:Their policies? To be honest we’ll probably have to get used to stuff like this as our populations get older and global warming and shit make things even worse.

Their policies? You mean the ones they impose on others without following themselves?
You mean the policies that punish the defrauded victims of the diesel scandal and not the perpetrators? (Not surprisingly considering the same politicians allowed the scandal to happen and many were involved in it?)

You mean taxing the average worker’s diesel while flying private jets?
You mean forcing others to cut emissions while continuing to produce absurd amounts on their own?

Their policies seem to indicate they care about preserving their own position, regardless to the costs of those outside the ruling class.

If actually protecting the environment and economy was the objective there would be better ways to do so.

And if you are going to demand the public make sacrifices, unless you are willing to make the same sacrifices you will lose all credibility.
Which is the fundamental problem here.

Until the political elite understand the concepts of leading by example, servant leadership and self-sacrifice this situation is just going to get worse.

Gauche caviar are the problem, not the solution.

Valrifell wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:(Image)

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit son!

What I don't understand is when antifa does this we're told they're violent ne'er-do-wells that have to be denounced by all, yellow vests protest in a similar way they're good French bois fighting for freedom.

Novus Wrepland wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Their policies? You mean the ones they impose on others without following themselves?
You mean the policies that punish the defrauded victims of the diesel scandal and not the perpetrators? (Not surprisingly considering the same politicians allowed the scandal to happen and many were involved in it?)

You mean taxing the average worker’s diesel while flying private jets?
You mean forcing others to cut emissions while continuing to produce absurd amounts on their own?

Their policies seem to indicate they care about preserving their own position, regardless to the costs of those outside the ruling class.

If actually protecting the environment and economy was the objective there would be better ways to do so.

And if you are going to demand the public make sacrifices, unless you are willing to make the same sacrifices you will lose all credibility.
Which is the fundamental problem here.

Until the political elite understand the concepts of leading by example, servant leadership and self-sacrifice this situation is just going to get worse.

Gauche caviar are the problem, not the solution.

It's very unnecessary of you to write like you're practicing for a speech class final.

So basically I take it that you want our leaders to pretend to be blue collar? That's kind of impractical.

Edit: I removed a lot of writing because I simply don't have time to discuss a lot here.

Ors Might wrote:

Novus Wrepland wrote:It's very unnecessary of you to write like you're practicing for a speech class final.

So basically I take it that you want our leaders to pretend to be blue collar? That's kind of impractical.

Edit: I removed a lot of writing because I simply don't have time to discuss a lot here.

I think what they’re saying is that if French leaders believe that climate change is such a problem, maybe they should act like it? Instead of pushing the burden solely onto the people.

Novus Wrepland wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Their policies? You mean the ones they impose on others without following themselves?
You mean the policies that punish the defrauded victims of the diesel scandal and not the perpetrators? (Not surprisingly considering the same politicians allowed the scandal to happen and many were involved in it?)

You mean taxing the average worker’s diesel while flying private jets?
You mean forcing others to cut emissions while continuing to produce absurd amounts on their own?

Their policies seem to indicate they care about preserving their own position, regardless to the costs of those outside the ruling class.

If actually protecting the environment and economy was the objective there would be better ways to do so.

And if you are going to demand the public make sacrifices, unless you are willing to make the same sacrifices you will lose all credibility.
Which is the fundamental problem here.

Until the political elite understand the concepts of leading by example, servant leadership and self-sacrifice this situation is just going to get worse.

Gauche caviar are the problem, not the solution.

It's very unnecessary of you to write like you're practicing for a speech class final.

None of those things are inhibiting of good governance. A lot of so-called great leaders did worse. We can dislike the character of members of a government, and still support their intentions or at least understand them.

I agree that there are probably better ways to protect the environment, but it seems like this was intended for the French deficit anyway. A single bad policy does not a bad program make however.

Novus Wrepland wrote:

Ors Might wrote:I think what they’re saying is that if French leaders believe that climate change is such a problem, maybe they should act like it? Instead of pushing the burden solely onto the people.

He didn’t give very good examples. Private jets are used for security reasons I assume. What emissions are they doing that are statistically significant? This all seems to boil down to PR to me, which in my opinion should not be that important.

Ors Might wrote:

Novus Wrepland wrote:It's very unnecessary of you to write like you're practicing for a speech class final.

So basically I take it that you want our leaders to pretend to be blue collar? That's kind of impractical.

Edit: I removed a lot of writing because I simply don't have time to discuss a lot here.

I think what they’re saying is that if French leaders believe that climate change is such a problem, maybe they should act like it? Instead of pushing the burden solely onto the people.

Trumptonium1 wrote:Amid calls for him to resign, Macron has announced he will address the nation together with his cabinet at 7pm tonight in Paris. Apparently this is the first such live address since 1968 by de Gaulle.

Thermodolia wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:Amid calls for him to resign, Macron has announced he will address the nation together with his cabinet at 7pm tonight in Paris. Apparently this is the first such live address since 1968 by de Gaulle.

I wonder if it’s going to be a one word speech with a him flipping everyone off

The Tomerlands wrote:It's a shame Marcon is so hated now. It's only been two years and everyone hates his guts. He doesn't seem too bad of a guy, aside from his crappy neoliberal and corporatist polices that were hurting the working class and poor. I hope he makes a recovery.

Olerand wrote:

The Tomerlands wrote:It's a shame Marcon is so hated now. It's only been two years and everyone hates his guts. He doesn't seem too bad of a guy, aside from his crappy neoliberal and corporatist polices that were hurting the working class and poor. I hope he makes a recovery.

I hope he doesn't. The best thing he can do for France now is push through whatever shit he wants to push through, fail, and resign himself to not running in 2022. The alternatives aren't much better, but we're quickly approaching a very deleterious and toxic environment here.

Olerand wrote:

The Tomerlands wrote:It's a shame Marcon is so hated now. It's only been two years and everyone hates his guts. He doesn't seem too bad of a guy, aside from his crappy neoliberal and corporatist polices that were hurting the working class and poor. I hope he makes a recovery.

I hope he doesn't. The best thing he can do for France now is push through whatever shit he wants to push through, fail, and resign himself to not running in 2022. The alternatives aren't much better, but we're quickly approaching a very deleterious and toxic environment here.

Snottistan wrote:"Shock in Paris as locals aren't protesting" would be a good headline on the offchance the opportunity ever comes about.

Alvecia wrote:

Olerand wrote:I hope he doesn't. The best thing he can do for France now is push through whatever shit he wants to push through, fail, and resign himself to not running in 2022. The alternatives aren't much better, but we're quickly approaching a very deleterious and toxic environment here.

IIRC the next most popular candidate was “meh”.

Phoenicaea wrote:^ @Olerand, what is the state of the art about institutions in France, nowadays. is there this 'accumulation' of things above the president, this '4 years monarchy' drift.

in this case, restore a substantial 'half-presidential' state. i mean, French parliament is not a fraud. it needs to have again substantial influence and laws.

Baltenstein wrote:

Olerand wrote:I hope he doesn't. The best thing he can do for France now is push through whatever shit he wants to push through, fail, and resign himself to not running in 2022. The alternatives aren't much better, but we're quickly approaching a very deleterious and toxic environment here.

What is the better solution though? The French nation seems to have maneuvred herself into a dead end, both politically and socially.

Baltenstein wrote:

Olerand wrote:I hope he doesn't. The best thing he can do for France now is push through whatever shit he wants to push through, fail, and resign himself to not running in 2022. The alternatives aren't much better, but we're quickly approaching a very deleterious and toxic environment here.

What is the better solution though? The French nation seems to have maneuvred herself into a dead end, both politically and socially.

Olerand wrote:The most popular candidate was already meh. Macron, despite foreign coverage of him leading many to believe the contrary, was never a figure that most French -and especially those not issued of the grande and haute bourgeoisie, and especially not those not in major cities, and most particularly Paris; were "excited" about, but more resigned to. He wasn't Hollande, which was a plus, and he promised a suppression of the habitation tax for 80% of the people, which is nice, but that's it. He wasn't this providential man he thought he was, and most people, listening to him undergo a religious ecstasy on the campaign trail felt a kinship with this girl more than with the candidate himself.

France is not a girondiste country, no matter how much people want to pretend it is so they can oppose the current jacobin order. If we were to ever decentralize, people will be even more pissed when they realize there is now less money and less authority.

Excellent question. Post your opinions, I guess, for they are as good as mine.

Novus America wrote:.

France has a good enough birthrate that large scale immigration is not needed.

Novus America wrote:

Baltenstein wrote:
What is the better solution though? The French nation seems to have maneuvred herself into a dead end, both politically and socially.

Maybe take a more Nordic or Swiss approach, combining deregulation and pro business policies with a well funded welfare state.

A welfare state does not require over regulation of business. And deregulation does not require cutting welfare. Understanding that welfare and pro business economic policies are not mutually exclusive is the key.

Also a good dose of militarization with conscription.

France needs to get its high unemployment under control, and the above would help.

And I know it is not politically correct to say so, but limiting immigration to high skilled immigrants from certain areas, excluding the more unpopular areas.

France has a good enough birthrate that large scale immigration is not needed.

Baltenstein wrote:

Olerand wrote:The most popular candidate was already meh. Macron, despite foreign coverage of him leading many to believe the contrary, was never a figure that most French -and especially those not issued of the grande and haute bourgeoisie, and especially not those not in major cities, and most particularly Paris; were "excited" about, but more resigned to. He wasn't Hollande, which was a plus, and he promised a suppression of the habitation tax for 80% of the people, which is nice, but that's it. He wasn't this providential man he thought he was, and most people, listening to him undergo a religious ecstasy on the campaign trail felt a kinship with this girl more than with the candidate himself.

You mean the girl in the yellow dress behind Macron who kinda looks like she is trying not to laugh?

France is not a girondiste country, no matter how much people want to pretend it is so they can oppose the current jacobin order. If we were to ever decentralize, people will be even more pissed when they realize there is now less money and less authority.

Girondist as in...federal? Urbanite? Market-friendly? Centrist?

Excellent question. Post your opinions, I guess, for they are as good as mine.

No idea. I'm just an outside observer from the other half of the Franco-German European engine thinking, like most of our opinion makers and politicos do, that you should get your house in order, mes amis.