Riots in France over fuel tax rises

[Painisia]

Under our "idiot tyrant and chief," without the Paris Climate Agreement, and without exorbitant gas taxes, the United States reduced its carbon emissions.

The Paris Climate Agreement is a joke anyways.
It has no enforcement mechanisms whatsoever.
It is all show, zero substance.

Where can I find the Paris Accords papers? Is it out on the Internet?

[Salandriagado]

The Paris Climate Agreement is a joke anyways.
It has no enforcement mechanisms whatsoever.
It is all show, zero substance.

Where can I find the Paris Accords papers? Is it out on the Internet?

Yes. On the first google result for "Paris Accords", in fact.

[Erdogan in cool sunglasses]

I would say tax cut and increase of consumption. And then, when the tax revenue will grow, put the growth into paying debts and ecology.

That argument rests on a lot of shaky assumptions about whether the economy will grow.

Every time when you mess with economy you need shaky assumptions. I just compared the problematic economy (France) with probably the most successful economy in the EU (Poland). The main difference is that people in France are nominally much wealthier (avg wage 3000 € compared to 1200 €) the tax rate on the wage is nearly the same (in both countries disposables income is ~75% of nominal wage) but when you ask what these money are really worth you can see that French have 2500 € but Poles have 1900 €. Why? Because doing business in France is harder and the taxes on products or half-products (oil, gas etc.) are much higher. France must change it and even lower the comfort of living of its people to survive.

[Far Easter Republic]

Gas taxes are a crummy way to combat climate change. They result in a minimal level of pollution reduction, and place the burden on people who are neither heavy polkuters, nor easily able to accommodate the tax.

[Novus America]

The Paris Climate Agreement is a joke anyways.
It has no enforcement mechanisms whatsoever.
It is all show, zero substance.

That's every global treaty for ya.

Seriously, what stops nations from pulling out of treaties such as the Outer Space Treaty and the Antarctica Treaty System? Peer pressure?

Some treaties are binding and sometimes there are enforcement mechanisms like sanctions.

But the Paris Agreement is neither binding nor does it have such enforcement mechanisms.

[A Cornstar]

Expanded social services are little comfort against excessive taxation, the environment still suffers because the welfare dependency breeds a lack of effort that bleeds into the entire populace. This abuse on three fronts (four with champagne socialists in mind) towards the hard working and virtuous is absolutely blood boiling. Ned Lamont take note; what Gauls can do so can Gaels.

[Costa Fierro]

I do not blame the protesters. The EU in general and french govnerment in particular encouraged the purchase of diesel vehicles on the grounds that they were more environmentally friendly. Of course now when it turns out these Vehicles are actually worse for the environment the govnerment just slaps taxes on dieasel regardless of its citizens reliance on govnerment guidance when purchasing said vehicles.

Yeah. The German car industry (in collusion with the German government) blatantly lied about diesel vehicles. And only got a slap in the wrist when it was exposed.

But of course Macron would never penalize the German auto industry.
He wants to penalize the French people for the crimes of the German auto industry and government.

It is completely fucked up, but completely expected.

That's a bit simplistic. In fact it's so simplistic, it's wrong.

[Novus America]

Yeah. The German car industry (in collusion with the German government) blatantly lied about diesel vehicles. And only got a slap in the wrist when it was exposed.

But of course Macron would never penalize the German auto industry.
He wants to penalize the French people for the crimes of the German auto industry and government.

It is completely fucked up, but completely expected.

That's a bit simplistic. In fact it's so simplistic, it's wrong.

Certainly it is not the only reason. But certainly it plays a part.
Diesels which violate emissions standards were pushed by Germany, and have caused a lot of pollution. But Macron would not dare do anything to stand up to corruption in the German auto industry.

France should force the German car companies to buy back their fraudulent diesels or replace them with electric cars.

But it obviously that will never happen.

[Torrocca]

Taxing the common folk while not bothering to address the root issue itself, AKA Capitalism?

I am so surprised, honestly. Let me tell you just how surprised I am that a Neoliberal isn't actually addressing the core of the problem here. It's a shocker. Truly. It is.

[Rojava Free State]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fuel-supplie ... 31571.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... sts-spread

So the unrest is continuing today, two days after central Paris got ransacked. Fuel depos are being blocked, ambulance drivers are blockading a certain street in paris and students are protesting by the thousands. some of the student protests have turned riotous

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The Paris Climate Agreement is a joke anyways.
It has no enforcement mechanisms whatsoever.
It is all show, zero substance.

That's every global treaty for ya.

Seriously, what stops nations from pulling out of treaties such as the Outer Space Treaty and the Antarctica Treaty System? Peer pressure?

Basically, yes. However, in an interconnected world where trade is one of the most important things imaginable, peer pressure means quite a lot. Trust is an international currency. Trust grants you allies, economic power blocs, diplomatic influence... Without trust you are North Korea or 90's South Africa, or Iran. If you can be trusted, you can burst onto the word stage, gain regional power, make beneficial treaties. The whole international system is based off 'I scratch your back, you scratch mine', in which back scratching effectively means hundreds of millions of dollars worth of goods trading hands.

No matter if it works in theory. It works in practice. We see that countries generally keep to treaties they signed, even if breaking those treaties is in their immediate self interest. Countries generally comply with negative rulings of the International Court of Justice and ICSID, just because it means they can be trusted. Same for article 36 declarations under the ICJ Statute. It signals that a nation can be trusted to uphold its end of the bargain. We see that this works in practice.

Of course, like said before, the Paris Climate Accord is peculiar in that it does not impose binding obligations on the signatories. The binding obligations are in the UNFCCC.

[Petrolheadia]

Taxing the common folk while not bothering to address the root issue itself, AKA Capitalism?

Do you chop your head off when it hurts?

[Trumptonium1]

Taxing the common folk while not bothering to address the root issue itself, AKA Capitalism?

Do you chop your head off when it hurts?

He certainly does. Nothing says find-a-solution like bulldozing a house over a spiderweb.

[Mardla]

These violent and unruly rioters must be suppressed all by all means necessary. I would recommend that Macron declares martial law and has these violent hooligans arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

This^

A revolution should be provoked, it would lead to a far-right nationalist government taking power.

[Petrolheadia]

The riots in France show that democracy cannot, for the most part, handle environmentalism

its generally incompatible

Thank you. I have been trying to say this for awhile. Green autocracy now!

At least the former part is overrated.

[Petrolheadia]

These violent and unruly rioters must be suppressed all by all means necessary. I would recommend that Macron declares martial law and has these violent hooligans arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

This^

A revolution should be provoked, it would lead to a far-right nationalist government taking power.

What if France actually works out a compromise solution without fucking everything around up?

[Mardla]

Thank you. I have been trying to say this for awhile. Green autocracy now!

At least the former part is overrated.

Can't do a major crack down on consumerism without authoritarianism.

[Mardla]

This^

A revolution should be provoked, it would lead to a far-right nationalist government taking power.

What if France actually works out a compromise solution without fucking everything around up?

They're on their Fifth Republic. Fucking everything up is how France has done things since 1789. Not that they could restore the monarchy at this point, but maybe something just as authoritarian is possible.

[Petrolheadia]

What if France actually works out a compromise solution without fucking everything around up?

They're on their Fifth Republic. Fucking everything up is how France has done things since 1789. Not that they could restore the monarchy at this point, but maybe something just as authoritarian is possible.

It is possible, but why do it?

[Petrolheadia]

At least the former part is overrated.

Can't do a major crack down on consumerism without authoritarianism.

Consumerism is some good shit.

[Mardla]

Can't do a major crack down on consumerism without authoritarianism.

Consumerism is some good shit.

Yes but you see our planet has to last for thousands of years to come, we have our future generations to worry about, and consumerism at this point is unsustainable.

[Petrolheadia]

Consumerism is some good shit.

Yes but you see our planet has to last for thousands of years to come, we have our future generations to worry about, and consumerism at this point is unsustainable.

Source on that?

Also, it's a big fucking rock. It'll survive pretty much anything. At worst the supply/demand curve will readjust.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Consumerism is some good shit.

Yes but you see our planet has to last for thousands of years to come, we have our future generations to worry about, and consumerism at this point is unsustainable.

We either going to die, killing each other over gas prices, or maintain stability and prepare for the end.

If you really want to fix things, sink more cash into more green businesses, not lessening fossil fuels. You don’t win, if your products simply can’t compete, so make them into something that can compete.

Logic goes, personal transportation couldn’t compete with trains until the car was invented. So be like the makers of car, build a unseen route.

[Novus America]

Taxing the common folk while not bothering to address the root issue itself, AKA Capitalism?

I am so surprised, honestly. Let me tell you just how surprised I am that a Neoliberal isn't actually addressing the core of the problem here. It's a shocker. Truly. It is.

Fraud is not allowed under proper capitalism. Admittedly the crony capitalist stuff needs to be reigned in. But without capitalism we would not have the money and technology we need.

We need capitalism. But with some proper rules.
Banning the importation of non electric German cars into France and forcing the German companies to buy back or replace the fraudulently sold diesel ones with electric ones.

[Petrolheadia]

Banning the importation of non electric German cars into France

That sounds as crony as it is chauvinist.

Especially in the light of:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39699294
https://www.thelocal.fr/20170316/renaul ... tion-tests